frannyo 2 Posted June 11, 2002 Share Posted June 11, 2002 Anyone have any idea of what the steepest gradient of the steepest slope at a resort would be - and WHERE is it? I wanna go. (Not just in Japan, but za waarudo) [This message has been edited by frannyo (edited 11 June 2002).] Link to post Share on other sites
Mudguts 0 Posted June 11, 2002 Share Posted June 11, 2002 I've never seen anything approaching a 69 degree gradient I once made the mistake of taking on at Whistler. Link to post Share on other sites
brit-gob 9 Posted June 11, 2002 Share Posted June 11, 2002 I think the steepest official run in Japan is at Kijimadaira (?) in Nagano. Mudguts - 69 degree?! Glad to hear you survived it! Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean11 0 Posted June 11, 2002 Share Posted June 11, 2002 I think Kijimadaira has the steepest official runs in Japan. I've been down one 69-er myself, completely involuntarily, stopping half-way to throw my board down to the bottom, the better to crawl. Link to post Share on other sites
TeleSkier 0 Posted June 12, 2002 Share Posted June 12, 2002 All right - lets get somewhat realistic here. As for 69° that is incredibly steep - was snow able to stick to it - and that is an amazing accomplishment if you could ski that. As for me this is the rule of thumb that I kind of go by... 35° - pretty decent - most likely steeper than any ski area around here. Don't know for all of Japan but for Happo-One, Arai, Goryu/47, and Shiga-Kogen nothing there is close to 35° of sustained pitch. You may see a few turns that steep but nothing of substantial vertical. 40°-45° - pretty steep - when skiing you will most likely have snow kicking off from your turns and following you down. If you fall you may go for a pretty good ride. If hiking up in the backcountry you will be able to stick you hand out and touch the snow in front of you when getting near the 45° end of it. 50°+ - Real steep out there. The question of if I fall I could get in some trouble because I may not be able to stop for some time. Definitely gets the heart pumping in my book. As for estimating the steepness - just imagine making a right triangle and judge the angle. Is it an exact science - no but fun to estimate with your friends. For me - I would like to see the 69° ski trail (not including cliff/cornices). I think you will find that most expert ski trails in the Japan Area are approximately 25° of sustained pitch and maybe a little more at most. Even at Squaw Valley I didn't really see much over 40° except in a few spots. Link to post Share on other sites
scouser 4 Posted June 12, 2002 Share Posted June 12, 2002 60+ I think I'll have to stick with 30 for now. Link to post Share on other sites
7-11 2 Posted June 13, 2002 Share Posted June 13, 2002 I wonder if any resort has tried to open a decent run steeper than 35/36 degrees? I am sure they must have thought about it - and the terrain does exist. Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean11 0 Posted June 13, 2002 Share Posted June 13, 2002 TeleSkier, I'm not talking about trails. I'm talking about going through trees and finding that the only way down is over a near precipice that indeed does have snow on it, that does indeed fall down in heaps along with you, and that would indeed result in a catastrophic fall if you lost it. Actually you can just about traverse down something like that if there's enough snow sticking to it, but it's hairy. Hence my tendency to throw my board down into the heap of snow that I've inevitably knocked down, and then crawl/slide/fall down. Really steep courses are a bad idea because they'd just get moguled to hell. Better just to find steeps off piste. They're out there, that's for sure. Link to post Share on other sites
danz 0 Posted June 13, 2002 Share Posted June 13, 2002 ocean11... traversing across anything over 40 degrees is no easy task...I don't care if you are a boarder or skier, you need to have complete edge control, good balance, and nerves of steel... also, how do you manage to take your board off on said slope...your description does not sound like a trail with sustained pitch...but just a short little drop into something more realistic...I wouldn't even think about leaving my skiis on such a steep course...and if I had to, I would rather want to be in ski boots than snowboard boots for sure... danz Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean11 0 Posted June 13, 2002 Share Posted June 13, 2002 I'M NOT TALKING TRAILS! Did yous hear that? Thank you for repeating exactly what I said danz. Yes, I'm talking precipices, but some of them can be a good deal more than short little drops. Next time I go snowboarding, I'll remember to take some skiboots along for just that eventuality. And do not imagine I don't think hard before taking my board off and throwing it - it's a desperate measure. BTW, I've got across some very steep short traverses that I think would be impossible on skis (we're not talking world class boarding here 'K? We're talking daft behaviour) - with a board you have more to stand on. Link to post Share on other sites
danz 0 Posted June 13, 2002 Share Posted June 13, 2002 ah.... sorry there pal... i should be more careful with my choice of words...what i meant by trail was actually anywhere on the mtn (don't care if its marked or not) but I do have to disagree on the more to stand on part... I don't know much at all about snowboarding, so if I'm wrong, please correct me (which i'm sure you will do in your witty fashion, which by the way cracks me up)... when you traverse across a steep pitch, at least with skiis, you are on your edges...i imagine the same is true with a board, or else you slip down...edges are longer on skiis, and you have 2 you can use while traversing, so you actually have more to stand on with skiis, and its more stable (you can adjust your stance width, edge pressure independantly for each ski, etc..., can't do that with just 1 edge)... please enlighten me if I am mistaken...I am curious... danz Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean11 0 Posted June 13, 2002 Share Posted June 13, 2002 The situation I'm talking about here is not a normal riding situation - fortunately. It's something that happens on a bad day, when fervid prayer is called for. This is when you hurtle down a slope that gets steeper and steeper until you practically have your face or back to the wall. All you're standing on is compacted snow. In that situation I imagine a skier would simply fall off - there would be nothing but air for that second ski to make contact with whereas the board compresses the snow with the whole weight of your body on just a small area. Anyone who wants to try this should climb up to the tower to the right of the Skyline at Nozawa and head down from there towards the Skyline. Only recommended on a day following a dump, and not really recommended at all. Link to post Share on other sites
miteyak 0 Posted June 13, 2002 Share Posted June 13, 2002 I think Mr Lowe (from Lowe Alpine), from memory, said something along the lines that most skiers overestimate severe agles by up to 20 degrees. There were no boarders when he said this, but I imagine it applies to them as well. I have to agree with others on this thread, 69 degrees is mountaineering territory, and the last time I was on a slope in this vicinity I was sporting axes and crampons, hoping me deadman was gonna stop me becoming one. Steepest I've skied within resorts in Japan has to be the ungroomed runs at Seymour Kanazawa, which I believe weighs in at around 40 degs. Ocean 11, two edges are better than one for standing on the steep, as explained by Danz, true for telemarking anyway. [This message has been edited by miteyak (edited 13 June 2002).] Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean11 0 Posted June 13, 2002 Share Posted June 13, 2002 Oh OK skiers, I give in. It's all just a big fantasy of mine, and I took my board off and crawled down Bunny Run No.2 that's barely even a slope. Next time I go, I'll remember to stick a protractor in my goggles so I don't go doing that skier thing... miteyak, I read danz's explanation, did you read mine? Link to post Share on other sites
miteyak 0 Posted June 13, 2002 Share Posted June 13, 2002 Yes, Mr O11, I did read yours, and yes, you have a point about the beauty of the board, and the amazing way in which it forms its own miraculous step on which to halt or slow one's descent. Eight years of snowboarding has allowed me to find this out for myself too. My comment was merely to address a comparison. Two edges, if one is familiar with the dynamics of (telemarking) at least, can be achieved on exceedingly steep slopes. Link to post Share on other sites
grungy-gonads 54 Posted June 17, 2002 Share Posted June 17, 2002 The problem I find with places in Japan is that even if some runs have a fairly steep run, it only lasts for 50 meters or so. One of the longest and steepest places I've had a good day out at in Japan is Hakkai San in Niigata to the north of Yuzawa. It has 2 main longish runs and is quite a challenge. Link to post Share on other sites
sachiko 0 Posted June 17, 2002 Share Posted June 17, 2002 The steep slope at Kandatsu Kogen at top is scare me a lot. Link to post Share on other sites
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