Kiroro sold to Thai company

[NoFakie 45]

Citibank didn't make any money on the Higashiyama bit though, did they?

 

From memory Citibank got in at the height of the boom and had to get out just after the GFC due to financial problems in the company. Certainly they got the timing all wrong.

 

Isn't that real estate in a nutshell though? Most of the time its just a timing play.

It's rare for people to add value above and beyond simple materials and labour, things which in themselves don't deserve an extra premium.

[Go Native 70]

Maybe in economies like Japan's Mr Wiggles. In other economies though, like in Australia, real estate has been a major factor in increasing peoples wealth over the last couple of decades. During the height of the boom here it was possible to get up near 100% return on investment within 12-15 months. In Niseko for a few years it was similar with prices almost doubling every 12 months. Real estate is certainly about timing and Citibank probably would have done ok out of their investment if they hadn't had to sell when they did. And they sold mainly because of issues for the company as a whole following the crisis which hit many American banks after the GFC.

[Metabo Oyaji 71]

What is GFC? Great Freaking Crash?

[Thundercat 60]

global financial crisis

[Metabo Oyaji 71]

global financial crisis

 

Makes sense. So, what is called the "Lehman Shock" around these parts.

[NoFakie 45]

Real estate is mainly zero sum. You're just taking from someone else who has to earn extra to pay for the increase in the price.

Its taking from the next generation, often for shelter, a basic human need.

[TheOrange 0]

Who were dudes who are re-developing Mt Granview again?

[Tubby Beaver 209]

But GN is right, that in the west people expect that they'll make money on their house when they sell it on. Doesn't ever seem to happen here

[Tubby Beaver 209]

Who were dudes who are re-developing Mt Granview again?

 

Muika and Tokabochi

[NoFakie 45]

But GN is right, that in the west people expect that they'll make money on their house when they sell it on. Doesn't ever seem to happen here

 

A big part of the Japanese bubble in the 1980s was speculation on land. Prices of apartments in Japan's largest cities doubled in about five years. Commercial land went up even more.

There are big capital gains taxes now that make the same kind of speculation less likely to reoccur.

 

Either way, the same unimproved house going up in value does not increase wealth in society. It just transfers it from one person to another.

[Chriselle 158]

I'm playing that game in Canada right now. Just waiting for that transfer of wealth part..

[Tubby Beaver 209]

but isn't that just what happens all the time as people buy goods? If I want something and you have it, I can transfer my wealth to you and you give me the product I want.

[Go Native 70]

 

Either way, the same unimproved house going up in value does not increase wealth in society. It just transfers it from one person to another.

 

Really? The just realeased Credit Suisse Wealth Report 2012 has Australia's median wealth per adult of $US194,000 at the highest in the world, well ahead of Switzerland $US87,137 and Norway $US79,376 and the proportion of Australians with personal wealth above $US100,000 was the highest of any country and eight times the world average. And very few Australians have a net worth of less than $US10,000 supposedly reflecting relatively low credit card use and student debt. A significant portion of the wealth that's been created here is due to the equity Aussies have in real estate assets. Overall I just think people from economies that have had long term growth like Australia and many SE Asian countries just have very different views on real estate investment than say the Japanese do.

[Chriselle 158]

but isn't that just what happens all the time as people buy goods? If I want something and you have it, I can transfer my wealth to you and you give me the product I want.

I'm not sure I get Wiggles point either. I guess in the strict sense of "earning money" where you provide a service or product.... holding property and just waiting for it to mature and not doing anything to it ... then maybe earning doesn't apply. But the capital gains made (not earned ) are where the wealth is dispersed don't you think? The trickle down...

[NoFakie 45]

Look at all the Americans with negative equity. How much wealth creation have they enjoyed?

 

No wealth in Australia has been "created" by house prices going up. Its simply been transferred from someone else. Maybe the person buying is currently getting a big wage relatively easily through record commodity prices, maybe they are a couple and both of them work much harder than the current single-wage owners ever did, maybe its coming from foreigners moving to Australia, or maybe its just people who are mortgaged up the wazoo. Either way, its those things that created the money. Someone living in a house and then selling it for an inflated price did not create it.

 

Manufacturing takes inputs and adds value to them. A Iphone is worth much more than some metal and glass.Services can do the same.

Getting a house, piece of land, painting, rare album in pink vinyl, and selling it later for more than you paid does not create utility and value.

It should be obvious but it is impossible for everyone in the economy to benefit from selling on assets. You need a loser for every winner.

 

Here's a chart for Australia by the way.

 

 

Google says the average mortgage in Australia is 350 grand, which is 28 million yen, or over 200k in the UK.

That's a lot of debt. Better pray that China keep buying up those commodities at the current record prices.

[surfarthur 22]

That's a lot of debt. Better pray that China keep buying up those commodities at the current record prices.

 

Which they won't.

[Slippery Jim 65]

I I owned Australia property that I didn't plan to live in for the next 20 years, I'd be selling out and moving the proceeds elsewhere in a hurry.

The bubble there is damn near at Japan '80s proportions, without the manufacturing industry backup Japan had.

The only major economy that's even worse right now is China, with its empty condo towers and huge shopping malls with no customers.

I hear villas in Greece are going for a song.

[Metabo Oyaji 71]

On the subject of infrastructure changes, looks like a "renraku lift" is being set up between X-Jam Takaifuji and Yomase Onsen, to physically link them.

 

Nothing on the scale of planned changes to Kiroro, perhaps, but at least it is something other than just a name change.

[Go Native 70]

Look at all the Americans with negative equity. How much wealth creation have they enjoyed?

 

No wealth in Australia has been "created" by house prices going up. Its simply been transferred from someone else. Maybe the person buying is currently getting a big wage relatively easily through record commodity prices, maybe they are a couple and both of them work much harder than the current single-wage owners ever did, maybe its coming from foreigners moving to Australia, or maybe its just people who are mortgaged up the wazoo. Either way, its those things that created the money. Someone living in a house and then selling it for an inflated price did not create it.

 

Manufacturing takes inputs and adds value to them. A Iphone is worth much more than some metal and glass.Services can do the same.

Getting a house, piece of land, painting, rare album in pink vinyl, and selling it later for more than you paid does not create utility and value.

It should be obvious but it is impossible for everyone in the economy to benefit from selling on assets. You need a loser for every winner.

 

Here's a chart for Australia by the way.

 

 

Google says the average mortgage in Australia is 350 grand, which is 28 million yen, or over 200k in the UK.

That's a lot of debt. Better pray that China keep buying up those commodities at the current record prices.

 

Household debt as a percentage of GDP doesn't mean all that much really. How servicable is that debt? Aussie wages have never been higher and the average and median wages are far higher than in the US, UK or Japan. And interest rates are reasonably low with plenty of room yet to go lower, unlike in places like Japan and the US. Unlike the Japan bubble Australia actually still has an increasing population and sustained demand on housing. Demand continues to maintain house prices near record highs even after the GFC. Only 6% of the Australian workforce works directly in mining which has benefitted from high commodity prices. There is some flow on to other industries as well but I can't see a massive slump in the Aus economy just because commodities come down off record highs. Demand in China is slowing but it isn't stopping. And far more people in Aus own their houses outright than have mortgages. Our banks have never had the same incredibly lax lending policies like banks in the US had so are nowhere near as exposed. In fact our banks remain some of the most profitable in the world currently. It will be interesting to see what happens over the next few years.

[SKI 15]

On the subject of infrastructure changes, looks like a "renraku lift" is being set up between X-Jam Takaifuji and Yomase Onsen, to physically link them.

 

Nothing on the scale of planned changes to Kiroro, perhaps, but at least it is something other than just a name change.

 

Needed. Shame that another 5th of the Mt Kosha thing isn't going to open as you pointed out in the casualties thread.

[brit-gob 9]

In time for this season Metabo?

[Thundercat 60]

Look at all the Americans with negative equity. How much wealth creation have they enjoyed?

 

No wealth in Australia has been "created" by house prices going up. Its simply been transferred from someone else. Maybe the person buying is currently getting a big wage relatively easily through record commodity prices, maybe they are a couple and both of them work much harder than the current single-wage owners ever did, maybe its coming from foreigners moving to Australia, or maybe its just people who are mortgaged up the wazoo. Either way, its those things that created the money. Someone living in a house and then selling it for an inflated price did not create it.

 

Manufacturing takes inputs and adds value to them. A Iphone is worth much more than some metal and glass.Services can do the same.

Getting a house, piece of land, painting, rare album in pink vinyl, and selling it later for more than you paid does not create utility and value.

It should be obvious but it is impossible for everyone in the economy to benefit from selling on assets. You need a loser for every winner.

 

Here's a chart for Australia by the way.

 

 

Google says the average mortgage in Australia is 350 grand, which is 28 million yen, or over 200k in the UK.

That's a lot of debt. Better pray that China keep buying up those commodities at the current record prices.

 

Household debt as a percentage of GDP doesn't mean all that much really. How servicable is that debt? Aussie wages have never been higher and the average and median wages are far higher than in the US, UK or Japan. And interest rates are reasonably low with plenty of room yet to go lower, unlike in places like Japan and the US. Unlike the Japan bubble Australia actually still has an increasing population and sustained demand on housing. Demand continues to maintain house prices near record highs even after the GFC. Only 6% of the Australian workforce works directly in mining which has benefitted from high commodity prices. There is some flow on to other industries as well but I can't see a massive slump in the Aus economy just because commodities come down off record highs. Demand in China is slowing but it isn't stopping. And far more people in Aus own their houses outright than have mortgages. Our banks have never had the same incredibly lax lending policies like banks in the US had so are nowhere near as exposed. In fact our banks remain some of the most profitable in the world currently. It will be interesting to see what happens over the next few years.

 

This is the same mantra that was repeated in Canada over and over again after the GFC. Unfortunately, Canadians are seeing the bubble burst now with house prices falling as much as 10% and projected to fall as much as 25-30% by 2014. There is very real fear starting to ripple through the markets there now.

[Thundercat 60]

Back on topic. If the link at Mt. Kosha is finished this year I might actually go and check it out. Good news indeed!

[grungy-gonads 54]

As Metabo pointed out though, the Makinoiri part of Mt Kosha is not opening this season.

[grungy-gonads 54]

http://www.snowjapan...post__p__456054