The World at War

[fukdane 2]

Over the last month or so I have been watching through the big long documentary box set called The World at War, basically the long story of the second world war.

 

Got to admit that until I watched this, I really did not know much more than the very basic story of the war.

 

And what a story. Hard to believe how mad the world was back then and the incredible damage done.

Nuts.

[norcal 5]

A while back there was WWII in HD and Vietnam in HD on the History channel (I believe). Had a bunch of old footage that had been restored, and a few big names doing some voice overs. Some graphic stuff, but still a good series.

[gozaimaas 61]

I am a total war history buff. The world at war is a great series, I recommend it to anyone with even the slightest interest in history.

Terrible things were done, if the people dont see it, they are one step closer to allowing it to happen again IMO.

There were people in germany who honestly thought the jews were at a holiday camp learning new skills so they could become better citizens, when the war was over they were marched down to the concentration camps to see what was going on and they were horrified. They were ignorant of what was really happening and that is something we should all keep in the back of our minds as it still goes on today in places.

The civilian families throwing themselves off cliffs in Okinawa because they were told the us army would do terrible things to them if they were captured.

The japanese were brutal and cruel but its easy to see how they ended up like that. They do everything to 110%, it does not matter if its designing robots or going to war they are going to give it their all. Combine that with lack of information and a serious case of brainwashing and you end up how they did in 1941. The thing that gets me is if Germany would have won in europe and japan won in the pacific I cant see Hitler saying to the japs "oh well, you guys have that half of the world and we will have this half". They only liked people with blonde hair and blue eyes so if it came down to it germany would have just turned on japan.

 

My fathers uncle was killed in sydney harbour by the japanese mini sub, he was meant to be on leave in sydney but swapped his shift with a mate so he could go and see his girlfriend and paid the ultimate price for it. RIP

[HelperElfMissy 42]

Just out of curiosity, how old are you fukdane, and where did you go to school?

 

Why I ask...

I took history in high school, and we had a brown book to work through in Year 11 and 12 - I found it the most boring tosh!

we only watched ONE movie during the two year course, and that was Gallipoli.

 

I am 42. And it has really only been in the last 10 or 15 years that I have become fascinated with the intricacies of history.

I think seeing actual footage, and hearing the stories as told by people who lived through it - and indeed visiting the places...really brings it to life.

 

However my kids are also fascinated (perhaps not to my degree) and really "get it" - and I think a lot of that is because they are educated in a dynamic and interesting way, and travel to places absorbing on the spot history. One of the saddest and yet most memorable historical visits we did with our boys was to Dachau. I reckon if I had visited Dachau as a child I may have been interested a lot earlier.

[griller 9]

I watched that a few years ago, very interesting.

And yes, the world was a big bag of nuts.

[grungy-gonads 54]

I have that boxset too, it was only 25 quid.

I too didn't really know much at all about the war, so it was a real education.

Actually read a few books after watching that to get more info.

[muikabochi 208]

I'd be interested in seeing that myself as well, it's only 22 quid on amazonuk.

[fukdane 2]

I'm 'in my 30s' Mamabear.

History was never something that interested me at school but I sure can't remember learning about WWII.

Almost embarrasingly, this was pretty much a new story for me.

[Chriselle 158]

I used to watch World at War on Public TV back in Canada when I was a kid. I've seen every episode and most more than once. I remember watching with my dad. Love all the old war programs.

My first wife's grandad was a Spitfire pilot in North Africa and he had so many wonderful stories. Also, a good friend of my parents was a Mitchell medium bomber pilot in the Battle of Britain and I remember him showing me all the pictures and memorabilia. He and his crew completed the 25 missions and he told me of the many close calls they had with the enemy.

Here's a little exerpt I found on him...

 

WITH THE R.C.A.F. OVER-SEAS: Anti-aircraft fire looks prettiest from the ground. This is the considered opinion of FO. Ivan Moreside of Strasbough, Sask., a 24-year-old pilot of a Mitchell medium bomber of a squadron of the Allied air force based in Britain, for he has been on the receiving end of bombing on the ground and on the receiving end of anti-aircraft fire in the air.

 

Trained at Regina, Virden, Man., Brandon, Man., and Pennfield Ridge, N.B., after giving up his work as a farm driver to join the R.C.A.F., he crossed to Britain in March, 1942, and with his present squadron has completed 21 operational sorties.

 

"My first four trips were the worst," he said. "Although on my first mission we received plenty attention from the enemy gunners, we were not holed. We had to wait until the second and third and fourth trip to really get our baptism of fire. It was on the third trip that we really received punishment, for we returned with the largest number of holes that an aircraft on our squadron has received. In all there was 56, but not one of the crew was hurt.

 

But flak looks best from the ground. On leave in London a few days ago I heard the sirens go and jumped out of bed to see what was on and had a good worm's eye view of a raid for a change. The flax being sent up was very pretty but I was glad I wasn't up above. The next day the papers said it was the heaviest barrage that London defences had put up into the air."

 

 

 

I'm sure the Brits on this site have some stories passed down.

[Jynxx 4]

I am in the opinion that WW2 has never ended. It has just stretched out to regional conflics and past alliances changed. However national interests have never changed . So any history told is based on the teller. Also people want to believe in certain stereotypes of war history. Bradly writes a good version called The Imperial Cruise. Coming from an American, it is refreshing - balances things out.

What is interesting and long lasting are the effects of the war in a particular country.

Japanese and German are ingrained with guilt. Americans? I don´t see much guilt in them for dropping 2 atomic bombs.

I lived in England as a kid and that was just 18 years after the war. People had very fresh memories about the war. England is one of those places you don´t wanna be if you are a kid. Worse if you are a jap or black back then.

[RobBright 35]

My grandfather was known as a tail gun Charlie, he was the rear gunner in a Lancaster Bomber and managed to survive his requested number of missions.

 

Remember for one school project, he gave me his log book to reason through, and was pretty harrowing stuff at the time. Everything was noted down.

 

Also vaguely remember seeing the world ay war series, but also Das Boot, a movie about a German U-boot filmed by Germans and starring Germans, in particular Jurgen Prochnow. A brilliant movie that should also be watched by everyone.

[Tubby Beaver 209]

Japan is not ingrained by guilt. Germany is, due to the fact that what was done in its citizens name was brought vividly to the public's view. Japan on the other hand, due to the increase in Communist propagation in Asia and US deciding that its aims (against the spread of communism) would be better served with a populace who were not rebellious, decided to allow Japan off lightly. To say that Japan is "ingrained with guilt" is at best a gross overstatement and at worst a flat out lie.

 

The atom bombs, whilst horrific, were a new weapon and the government of Japan was given plenty chances to agree to a complete surrender. They decided unwisely to not agree to this, so in the face of perceived monumental losses, the US government decided to use its own experimental weapon in place of sacrificing their own countrymen and those of their allies. Of course hundreds and thousands lost their lives, but in the context of war the decision was at least understandable. Some of the slaughter's conducted on civilians in cities that had already fallen to the Japanese armed forces during the course of the war were less than understandable.

[Jynxx 4]

Wow.

That is the biggest propaganda bullshit that I ever heard lol.

Serves as a good example that people can be fed any pictures to justify a purpose and they will eat it.

 

You don´t seem to understand the war between Japan and the US was a war of hate. On both sides, they didn´t care if they were mass slaughtered.

That was the general feeling amongst people.

The European front between Germans and US were a different history.

 

The guilt that the Japanese carry is probably more about how the Japanese society changed after the war.

Also towards the Chinese and Koreans about things during the time of war. Something they cannot make admission as a nation. Sensitive issue.

You don´t understand the BURAKU MONDAI during the late 70s. O-haski Kyosen has contributed big time and now things are better.

You ask a 20 yo Japanese now and thing are cool. You ask people over my age and you will get a different response.

We were at a running battle with Korean students back then. Things got nasty. They acted like the untouchables.

I feel pretty bad about what happened then.

My dad stills feels guilty when he is with a Korean person.

So clapp it Tubbs. Whaddaya know anyways.

[Chriselle 158]

I think I need a German Enigma to decipher the code Jynxx just wrote.....

 

Tubby's "propaganda" sums it up well.

[RobBright 35]

Yeah, tubby is the USA propaganda machine.

 

Of course, in Europe, it was one big love fest between all the nations and noone hated each other.

[pie-eater 207]

I think I need a German Enigma to decipher the code Jynxx just wrote.....

 

Such a device would be useless in the face of such jibberish.

 

I remember seeing that series and really enjoyed it. If enjoyed is the right word.

History at school was a real downer for me. It was one of those subjects where the teacher basically read out of a book and we wrote down stuff.

There was no discussion or anything it was just stuffing info into your nonce.

I can picture it now. It was like a never-ending meeting at work. Only worse.

[Tubby Beaver 209]

Wow.

That is the biggest propaganda bullshit that I ever heard lol.

Serves as a good example that people can be fed any pictures to justify a purpose and they will eat it.

 

You don´t seem to understand the war between Japan and the US was a war of hate. On both sides, they didn´t care if they were mass slaughtered.

That was the general feeling amongst people.

The European front between Germans and US were a different history.

 

The guilt that the Japanese carry is probably more about how the Japanese society changed after the war.

Also towards the Chinese and Koreans about things during the time of war. Something they cannot make admission as a nation. Sensitive issue.

You don´t understand the BURAKU MONDAI during the late 70s. O-haski Kyosen has contributed big time and now things are better.

You ask a 20 yo Japanese now and thing are cool. You ask people over my age and you will get a different response.

We were at a running battle with Korean students back then. Things got nasty. They acted like the untouchables.

I feel pretty bad about what happened then.

My dad stills feels guilty when he is with a Korean person.

So clapp it Tubbs. Whaddaya know anyways.

 

 

Jynnx, what do you know?? Nowt by your postings. To say that Japan feels the guilt that Germany did is absolute nonsense......its obviously you who has been fed and believed the textbook propaganda that is Japanese High School History books.

 

While we are on it, lets get 1 thing clear, the war in Europe was won by the Russians not the Americans......the western Allies didn't make any large offensive on western europe until D-Day in 1944. That was since the Dunkirk evacuation in 1940......4 whole years where for the most part, the Russians were entrenched and fighting a nasty war with the Germans. the western allies made skirmishes here and there, after finally winning in North Africa, started to tie up the Germans in the "soft underbelly" of Italy but it was still not a large scale engagement. It was the Russians who wore them down and made them stretch to almost breaking point, allowing the western allies to power through the weaker western front. That's not to say it was plain sailing or the soldiers didn't fight valiantly, its just the truth of what happened.

 

Japan always likes to pull out the "atom bomb" episode....and like I said it was a horrific weapon to use. But the treatment of allied POW's and non-combatant native peoples by the marauding Japanese armed forces was just as horrific and something for which the Japanese government has never fully apologised for.

 

mind you, I could just be in the pay of those US Imperialists

[Jynxx 4]

What you And most Westerners don´t understand is that there are no humane wars. War is about genocide to some cultures. You kill the bloodline because there will be revenge. The Japanese and Arabs know this concept well. Revenge killing was a licence that was given In Japan. There are no quarter given when it comes to war. The army that looses are hunted down.

Japan does not conduct tribal warfare like American Indians or Aboriginies. You kille 3 of our men so wil kill 3 of yours and we go home.

 

No one who when to war in Japan expected to return alive. The honourable discharge was death. Who is caught as a pow is not worth any respect. In a war that Japn fought those days, the strategy is use local and captured resource. Meaning any pow is a drain on the food supply. Consider that USA deserve no respect in the manner that they conduct war. They are an army that relies on carpet bombing. It is only recent that dropping bombs on top of citizens indiscriminate is a no no. You can argue that they had no targeting capabilities but we are talking attitude to killing here.

 

BTW you don´t have Japanese parents. My wife is German. It happens that my dad was in the war and so was my grand dad ( Borneo)

In me and missus´ family we have some shared history to talk about.

You weren´t there when it happenened, were you

So whf are you talking about. Who is talking nonsese

[grungy-gonads 54]

 

If only there were a translating machine powerful enough....

second thoughts, nah!

[RobBright 35]

 

If only there were a translating machine powerful enough....

second thoughts, nah!

 

Nope.

 

Only if your parents are Japanese or your wife is German, can you comment on world war 2. If you have read anything, then you are part of the american propaganda machine and can not be trusted.

 

[NoFakie 45]

If they made the World at War now, it would have some grade A full of himself arsehole celeb historian like Niall Ferguson posing in front of the camera at every possible opportunity. Flying off to Kursk and poncing about as if that's going to tell you more than an old clip of lots of heavy artillery going off at the same time.

 

Instead the series has understated interviews with the people who were there. Olivier did a great voiceover, but is firmly in the background. The story is told by archive footage and the peoples' experiences.

 

Shoah, or however you spell the seven hour Holocaust documentary by Claude Lanzmann (sp?), has some hardcore interviews in it too. Some unforgettable stories.

[Tubby Beaver 209]

What you And most Westerners don´t understand is that there are no humane wars. War is about genocide to some cultures. You kill the bloodline because there will be revenge. The Japanese and Arabs know this concept well. Revenge killing was a licence that was given In Japan. There are no quarter given when it comes to war. The army that looses are hunted down.

Japan does not conduct tribal warfare like American Indians or Aboriginies. You kille 3 of our men so wil kill 3 of yours and we go home.

 

No one who when to war in Japan expected to return alive. The honourable discharge was death. Who is caught as a pow is not worth any respect. In a war that Japn fought those days, the strategy is use local and captured resource. Meaning any pow is a drain on the food supply. Consider that USA deserve no respect in the manner that they conduct war. They are an army that relies on carpet bombing. It is only recent that dropping bombs on top of citizens indiscriminate is a no no. You can argue that they had no targeting capabilities but we are talking attitude to killing here.

 

BTW you don´t have Japanese parents. My wife is German. It happens that my dad was in the war and so was my grand dad ( Borneo)

In me and missus´ family we have some shared history to talk about.

You weren´t there when it happenened, were you

So whf are you talking about. Who is talking nonsese

 

the US deserve no respect because of carpet bombing....thought there were no humane wars? I thought you said that the japanese UNDERSTOOD this.

 

You think you are the only person on here who had a Grandfather who fought in the war?? haha.

You weren't there were you? Nope, you've listened to ur Grandfather tell stories about the good fight and you believed them....but didn't read anything else to see if these stories were a real reflection of what actually happened. My grandad once told me he brought a monkey home from Egypt (where he was stationed in something that went on between 1939 and 1945) in a suitcase.......I believed it too until I asked my Gran about it! Yeah nice one Jynnx, don't let facts get in the way of a good yarn from your Grandad.

[Jynxx 4]

It was from my dad and mum.

It´s quite sobering when you hear about walking in Tokyo and seeing a river full of charred body, no water in it for anyone to escape the heat, but just charred bodies replacing the river ... or burned bodies lying in a fan pattern, all trying to escape from a building.

A good fight ?

Anyone who was ACTUALLY there will tell you different.

I heard that the only meat you can get was cutting up your enemy and feeding off from them on the Islands of SE. Asia.

I really do respect people and think them brave when they can tell a story and confront their feeelings - guilt, reconcile, whatever.

Probably some people deal with it talking openly, some shutting up.

[big-will 7]

I think it's time I learnt more about all this.

Ordered the DVD set and will give it a watch.

[Chriselle 158]

It was from my dad and mum.

It´s quite sobering when you hear about walking in Tokyo and seeing a river full of charred body, no water in it for anyone to escape the heat, but just charred bodies replacing the river ... or burned bodies lying in a fan pattern, all trying to escape from a building.

A good fight ?

Anyone who was ACTUALLY there will tell you different.

I heard that the only meat you can get was cutting up your enemy and feeding off from them on the Islands of SE. Asia.

I really do respect people and think them brave when they can tell a story and confront their feeelings - guilt, reconcile, whatever.

Probably some people deal with it talking openly, some shutting up.