Tubby Beaver 209 Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 Aussie SJ'ers: News just broke that Qantas is grounding its domestic & internaitonal fleets due to the union dispute, and won't be flying again until there's some agreement. I hope this doesn't continue into the season and ruin any plans for you. By DiGriz Helped u out a bit....I've plenty time but no idea of the dispute. any SJers currently booked to fly here with Quantas? Link to post Share on other sites
surfarthur 22 Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 So glad we are flying Cathay Pacific this year Link to post Share on other sites
grungy-gonads 54 Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 Surely it will be sorted in time? He says not knowing anything about it really! Link to post Share on other sites
surfarthur 22 Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 probably will be, the unions have been talking about industrial action possibly until the middle of next year, so I guess the negotiations going on tonight will be very interesting. Don't count on it being over quickly, neither side seems willing to give any ground. Link to post Share on other sites
ausi ski bum 1 Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 Basically the airline has made an offer that is reasonable but the Union wants a say in the direction of the Airline such as influencing decisions like the new Jet Star Japan and the New Premium Asian Airline recently announced. Unfortunatly the Union forgets Airlines today operate in a very different world to a few years back, in 1970 for example about 44% of passengers into and out of Australia flew Qantas, today with increased competition its about 18%. Baggage handlers at Qantas earn 30% more than other airlines staff at the same airport, how much more can Qantas pay. Qantas pilots want the airline to commit to using Australian crews even when the airline is not based in Australia. Engineers want all maintenance to remain in Australia even though the same work can be done OS for less, the A380 fr example has all major work done in Germany but this is mainly due to it being a new aircraft and limited facilities that can actually handle aircraft of this ilk. They even made a demand that if they want to take one of their free flights and there was not a seat, a paying passenger would get bumped in to make a seat for them. With Union bosses telling the public to fly with other airlines, pilots making statements to the passengers in flight and statements that the dispute could last until the middle of 2012, Qantas had little choice but to take drastic action, and what better time to do this than when 17 delegations to the Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting in Perth were booked to fly home on Qantas, it made sure that the Government had to act to save face, something they have not done so far. Link to post Share on other sites
Go Native 70 Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 To solely blame the unions in this is ridiculous. The pilots for instance have only asked for a 2.5% pay rise (around the current rate of inflation in Australia) but management won't even negotiate any rise in pay at all whilst just approving a 71% pay rise for the CEO. I think Alan Joyce has orchestrated this very well. He has always wanted to replace Qantas operations with cheaper operations like that of Jetstar. This has always been his end game. The company has been spending in excess of $1 million a day on a PR campaign to malign their own employees and the unions that represent them. Joyce making out that he has had no choice is just BS in my opinion. There are many reasons why Qantas has ended up in this position and many of them are related to a history of poor management of the airline (not all of Joyce's making). The main claim of the unions representing the employees is for job security which is hardly unreasonable from organisations representing the best interests of their members. The unions seem to have been more than prepared to negotiate on their initial claims but management don't appear to have made any compromise on their position whatsoever. Link to post Share on other sites
Ross 4 Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 I guess if the union get their way we can expect higher price's. Link to post Share on other sites
surfarthur 22 Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 Would you rather Australia's national carrier be dismantled and moved to Singapore? Link to post Share on other sites
ausi ski bum 1 Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 Qantas has never had an issue with the 2.5% increase its the other demands they cant agree to, the Union wants a say in the running of the airline and its future direction, its not going to happen. Fact Labor Party introduced a new regime of Industrial relations where the only option an employer has to resolve ongoing rolling strikes is to lock out with 51 hours notice. The options available to Qantas were simple, 12 months of continual disruption or play the only card in their deck thanks to the Gillard Govt. What choice did they have. They are forcing the industrial system to do their job and enforce a decision, there is no other way that this could have been achieved. They want the Industrial courts to terminate all disruptions and enter into a 21 day period of forced negociation with a final determination that is binding on all parties by Fair Work Australia after than, in other words, resolve this before the Christmas holiday period 1 Link to post Share on other sites
HelperElfMissy 42 Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 ...and we are all hoping exactly that happens - coz I have flights book on January 1. Feeling for those stranded at the moment. Some inconveniences, and some really awful situations. Link to post Share on other sites
Alexander L 80 Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 The good part is keeping aussies in aus. Link to post Share on other sites
HelperElfMissy 42 Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 The good part is keeping aussies in aus. Ouch. Link to post Share on other sites
Slippery Jim 65 Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 The good part is keeping aussies in aus. I dunno, AlexL. If all the Aussies stayed home it would probably get ``too expensive'' for you to fly to Niseko, buy lift passes, eat dinner... Link to post Share on other sites
grungy-gonads 54 Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 thursday's loaded, so it doesn't matter to him, DiGriz. Link to post Share on other sites
surfarthur 22 Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 All industrial action by both sides has been terminated by fair work Australia. Planes should be back in the air this afternoon. Link to post Share on other sites
LiquidX 0 Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 Phew! Link to post Share on other sites
HelperElfMissy 42 Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 All industrial action by both sides has been terminated by fair work Australia. Planes should be back in the air this afternoon. Phew! I wouldn't be relaxing just yet. They have 21 days to find an agreement. Unfortunately Tony Sheldon (Union) is holding out for "Job Security". Who the hell has a job for life these days?! There will be no agreement there! Lets resurrect this thread in 3 weeks. Link to post Share on other sites
Chriselle 158 Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 The good part is keeping aussies in aus. Haha...Thursday made a funny..... Link to post Share on other sites
HelperElfMissy 42 Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Summary: FWA has ruled that no industrial action can take place during the next 21 days while negotiations are in progress. If progress is being made but not decision then it can be extended for another 21 days, also with no industrial action. That means no more groundings, no more strikes, no more baggage handling delays, no more pilot announcements in flight for at least the next 6 weeks. That takes us up to the middle of December. People with current bookings will be riding it out. People looking to book to fly in the next couple of weeks can do so pretty confidently. But I would think new bookings for 2012 would be thin on the ground until this is sorted. Link to post Share on other sites
Go Native 70 Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Unfortunately Tony Sheldon (Union) is holding out for "Job Security". My god a union looking out for the future of their members! What crazy radicals they are!! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
surfarthur 22 Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 My understanding is that after the 42 day negotiation period, if no agreement is reached, then the fair work Australia umpire will decide what the agreement will look like, and this will be legally binding for both parties. Not 100% sure on that though, but it would seem that if that is the case, then no more disruptions to Qantas flights from industrial action. Link to post Share on other sites
HelperElfMissy 42 Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 I think that would be a pretty good outcome Surfarthur - I hope it is the case. GN: LOL Of course Unions are supposed to look out for the future of their members, but really?... WHO has a job for life these days? You work hard, make yourself vital to your company operations and that is how you get job security. There are IR laws that protect from slave labour and random sacking. As an employer we have had to jump through some inordinately large hoops to get rid of staff who have been lazy as all sin, totally unreliable and ripping us off blind. It is not that easy to get away with doing the wrong thing. What they are asking for is guarenteed employment - it can't be done anymore. Link to post Share on other sites
Ross 4 Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 Have to agree Mamabear. We have our on plumbing business and have had our most difficult year in 16 year's All staff related every one want's more all the time but will not put any thing in to gain it. Link to post Share on other sites
sand 17 Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 Related to job security is outsourcing jobs, my question is who in society, in this situation Australian society, does outsourcing benefit? The Community as a whole, or the executives and owners of the company? I know it certainly isnt society in general. I don't know much about the details of union demands in this case, but if demands for guaranteed employment relate to stopping job cuts from outsourcing, then I would say more power to them. Link to post Share on other sites
surfarthur 22 Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 I think that the unions are trying to stop jobs going offshore, not so much "jobs for life". I would be pretty upset if the company I work for decided to make me redundant, then have someone offshore employed to do the same job. I guess one important thing to note is that if the Australian public truly want Qantas to remain an Australian airline staffed by Australian workers, they will need to be prepared to pay a premium. It does not appear that the general public here are prepared to do this. I guess you can't have your cake and eat it too. Link to post Share on other sites
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