muikabochi 208 Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 It is pretty impressive, for sure. I'm a bit worried that people will even become too complacent, you know like they did early 90s? Link to post Share on other sites
TJ OZ 0 Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Another insightful post by someone who knows little. Thanks pie-eater. Still only one laugh from me though. You have to get some better material. Link to post Share on other sites
pie-eater 207 Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 My, er, 'material' ain't for you. Anyway, I suspect you are actually a robot responding as only a programmed robot could. After all, no living creature could possibly regurgitate the masses of one-tracked PR bumpf that you do. Link to post Share on other sites
pie-eater 207 Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Then again, robots are cool. So, perhaps not. Link to post Share on other sites
NoFakie 45 Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Muika Does your new burger place have a big tent to eat in? Link to post Share on other sites
muikabochi 208 Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Hmmm, no. It has an indoor space to eat in. Very posh it is. Tables and chairs an' all. You could even say it's "All Year Resort Restaurant". Investors don't do things by half in Yuzawa. Link to post Share on other sites
Chriselle 158 Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Hmmm, no. It has an indoor space to eat in. Very posh it is. Tables and chairs an' all. You could even say it's "All Year Resort Restaurant". Investors don't do things by half in Yuzawa. What??? It's open past April? My goodness....PROGRESS. Link to post Share on other sites
muikabochi 208 Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Burgers all year. Ketchup too. Bloody impressive isn't it? Link to post Share on other sites
Go Native 70 Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 I guess one of the questions that's bugging me is the sheer economy impossibility of the big empty bubble resorts. Where the hell does the cash come from? It sure doesn't walk through the front door in skier wallets. Are there parent companies absorbing these losses year after year? Are there government subsidies? How is it even possible? Grazza, do you know for a fact that big resort lift companies are losing money? They probably have very few overheads. Little or no rent, temporary staff, low wages. Keeping the existing infrastructure ticking over may just not need much money. For me it's the keeping the existing infrastructure just ticking over which is the problem. The whole snowsports market has changed over the last 30 years in their expectations, needs and wants. But Japanese resorts have barely changed a thing. They are becoming anachronistic reminders of a bygone era. Some of the fashions worn by the locals on the slopes are testament to this! Link to post Share on other sites
Chriselle 158 Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Ya....but do they have fries? I bet not. Link to post Share on other sites
muikabochi 208 Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 I heard that fries were in the long term strategic marketing plan........ thinking long term, you see! Link to post Share on other sites
NoFakie 45 Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 The new burger place in Hakuba has a tent. Nice food and nice people though. Perhaps the smart money has gone to Yuzawa. Link to post Share on other sites
NoFakie 45 Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Interesting thread. I spend most of my ski season (weekends) in Hakuba with an annual Christmas break to Hokkaido wedged in there for good measure. A few years ago I had an opportunity to buy out a lodge in Hakuba but I dragged my feet as I share in the many concerns already expressed in this thread and the window of chance passed. I would like to be as optimistic as TJ OZ in seeing construction as building...but I see it more as merely maintaining a dated and uninspired plan. I applaud new projects like Gakuto Villas (thank you SJ for the stay) but unless the locals get motivated and more importantly, united...you are always going to have....and I coin, Hakublah. And the "blah" starts way before you even get to Hakuba....it pretty much starts from Toyoshina....that is one depressing stretch of road leading to what should be a fabulous and vibrant ski resort. It's dark, dreary and broken down. I get bummed out before I even get to the slopes. Come on Nagano folk...get your shit together. I've never been to Izu, but as a kind of famous hishochi and onsen area, and a place that people used to aspire to and build bessos, how has it fared in the past twenty years? Link to post Share on other sites
iiyamadude 6 Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 And the "blah" starts way before you even get to Hakuba....it pretty much starts from Toyoshina....that is one depressing stretch of road leading to what should be a fabulous and vibrant ski resort. It's dark, dreary and broken down. I get bummed out before I even get to the slopes. Come on Nagano folk...get your shit together. Yep. This depresses me too. And not just on that stretch of road of course. Can't think of many places where the approaches or surroundings look in any way 'vibrant'. Japanese do not seem to mind endless rows of derelict and run down buildings. Why is that. Link to post Share on other sites
Tubby Beaver 209 Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 dunno but its not just the winter resort areas. Places like Atami in Izu and Kawaguchiko are just as cruddy.....old buildings that have fallen into grubby disrepair seems to be the norm for Japanese resort areas. It really puts you off when you roll into town and see the rust scarred concrete bunkers that populate the place. Link to post Share on other sites
Mick Rich 78 Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 One man's rust-scarred, concrete bunker is another man's investment opportunity! Link to post Share on other sites
Chriselle 158 Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Interesting thread. I spend most of my ski season (weekends) in Hakuba with an annual Christmas break to Hokkaido wedged in there for good measure. A few years ago I had an opportunity to buy out a lodge in Hakuba but I dragged my feet as I share in the many concerns already expressed in this thread and the window of chance passed. I would like to be as optimistic as TJ OZ in seeing construction as building...but I see it more as merely maintaining a dated and uninspired plan. I applaud new projects like Gakuto Villas (thank you SJ for the stay) but unless the locals get motivated and more importantly, united...you are always going to have....and I coin, Hakublah. And the "blah" starts way before you even get to Hakuba....it pretty much starts from Toyoshina....that is one depressing stretch of road leading to what should be a fabulous and vibrant ski resort. It's dark, dreary and broken down. I get bummed out before I even get to the slopes. Come on Nagano folk...get your shit together. I've never been to Izu, but as a kind of famous hishochi and onsen area, and a place that people used to aspire to and build bessos, how has it fared in the past twenty years? The besso area around Ippeki lake in Ito and Izukogen are nice areas..BUT....the main route from Ito all the way down to Shimoda is pretty pathetic actually. There are a ton of old rotting, rusting buildings all along the coastal road. In reality Ito city is a real shit hole and the whole place needs to be torn down. I've had this conversation with a prominent Izu businessman and he feels the same way. We've written letters to city hall about it all but I'm not holding my breath to see my tax money used for anything other than the fabulous fireworks we have here. I guess they're counting on the blinding factor....seems to be working. Japan really has the quazi third world thing down tight. Sorry folks....I grew up in Victoria Canada and skied at Whistler/ Blackcomb. The bar was set pretty high. Link to post Share on other sites
mina2 6 Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 One man's rust-scarred, concrete bunker is another man's investment opportunity! Yeah, they are all in big demand....must explain why they are all snapped up so quickly! Is there ANY resort area, ski or not, that does not have this mess going on? Link to post Share on other sites
best skier in hakuba 5 Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 One man's rust-scarred, concrete bunker is another man's investment opportunity! Is there ANY resort area, ski or not, that does not have this mess going on? HAKUBA!!!! Even if there were any in Hakuba, which there weren't, they are being snapped up before you can say bottomless! Quicker than that, even. Link to post Share on other sites
Metabo Oyaji 71 Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 I also think they are failing the domestic market. Again most resorts haven't changed a thing in at least 30 years. The whole snowsports market though, including the Japanese one, has changed dramatically. Snowboarding is now as or even more popular than skiing. Skiers themselves now ski on much fatter skis and in larger numbers than ever before like hitting up ungroomed or off-piste slopes. Very few Japanese resorts have changed anything to cater to these trends. I don't buy that the entire decline in the Japanese domestic snowsports market is only due to the economy or declining population. I believe that resorts just aren't catering well to what the market wants, especially those of newer generations who are so important for the long term viability of the industry. Personally I think the best thing for the industry would be more foreign investment. More resorts brought up by foreign companies who are cashed up and able to make the investments that will bring the industry into the 21st century and cater to the modern snowsports market. What might be some specific suggestions for things snow resorts can do to appeal more to the changing domestic market? I gather opening up off-piste areas more would be one of them? Link to post Share on other sites
Alexander L 80 Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Very interesting. Now, nighters. Link to post Share on other sites
NoFakie 45 Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 Metabo I don't know about your area, but in Nagano, a lot of on-hill food is poor quality and overpriced. I'm sure anyone can see plenty of room for improvement there. Look at how much prices have come down for gyudon or fami-resu in the past few years. That is companies getting with the new reality, not them doing it out of choice. Ski resorts are stuck in the past. In Hakuba's case, some of the restaurants are only a few meters from the road. Being on a ski hill is no excuse. Link to post Share on other sites
stemik 14 Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 I believe the food in the Hakuba ski areas on mountain restaurants have improved in the last 4 years, but they are really only aiming at the overseas market. I would love to see more variety on the menus. More waiter/waitress service, nicer decor etc... Link to post Share on other sites
Thundercat 60 Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 Suddenly I'm loving this thread! Haven't checked it in a few days... thanks for the laughs guys. As for Izu, it's not only Ito city that needs to be torn down. It's pretty much the whole damn place. I commented early in the year about how few people were around during Golden Week... well, the whole summer went that way as well. I've never seen it so quiet down there during the summer. Of course there are many factors involved but I think the highway tolls going back up had a little to do with it. Over there past few years you could see cars from all over Japan but this year it was mostly Tokyo plates again. It's getting pretty sad actually. Link to post Share on other sites
pie-eater 207 Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 The new burger place in Hakuba has a tent. Nice food and nice people though. That all sounds very.. nice. It it a nice tent too? In a nice location? Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts