Non-smokers deserve more annual leave or pay than smokers.

[JA2340 16]

Originally Posted By: Black Mountain

If you consider someone who smokes on occasion 'a smoker' then you must consider someone who drinks on occasion 'an alcoholic'.

Nopoe, an occasional smoker is a smoker, an occasional drinker is a drinker. Simple really!

An alcoholic is someone with a dependence on alcohol, ie cannot do without that drink.

[Jynxx 4]

I don't like people who smokes while walking on the street. Munich stinks of ciggies.

I always wondered why they don't make strong but short actual tabbaco bit with long filters, and package them in quantity (more sticks out of the same amount that's in a packet).

It's a waste when so much goes into the air which is annoying to those who don't smoke, and an added health hazard because it's there people will smoke it to the butt. I find you only need a few puffs to satisfy the craving.

Ideal would be vapourizers .

[bobby12 0]

I just think smokers should stop being so damn antisocial and take their nasty little habit somewhere private.

 

It is not acceptable to go around the streets shouting in peoples faces or showing your privates, so why is it OK to smoke? For me it is in the same category of antisocial behavior. It should also be illegal to smoke in your own home if you have children in the house.

[HelperElfMissy 42]

I saw a woman driving her car in a sporting uniform, with her two pre-teen daughters in the car drinking Up and Go energy drinks in the same uniform on Sunday morning, on the way back from the airport. It was hot already so her windows were up and air conditioning on, and she was smoking. The car was FULL of a cloud of smoke - like a really cramped nightclub.

 

The pre-game athletic advantage - Carbs and Nicotine!

[Go Native 70]

Originally Posted By: bobby12

I just think smokers should stop being so damn antisocial and take their nasty little habit somewhere private.

It is not acceptable to go around the streets shouting in peoples faces or showing your privates, so why is it OK to smoke? For me it is in the same category of antisocial behavior. It should also be illegal to smoke in your own home if you have children in the house.

And you live in Japan with this attitude?! Poor you

[klingon 10]

I don't like smoking and try to avoid it. Living in Japan doesn't help. Makes me laugh when there's a "non-smoking section" right next to the "smoking section" in a restaurant, divided by... nothing!

 

I just do my best to avoid it and generally am successful.

[HelperElfMissy 42]

Originally Posted By: klingon

I don't like smoking and try to avoid it. Living in Japan doesn't help. Makes me laugh when there's a "non-smoking section" right next to the "smoking section" in a restaurant, divided by... nothing!

I just do my best to avoid it and generally am successful.

Try a bar with No Smoking signs on the wall with only the bar staff smoking!

We put up with it as long as possible, but the kids ended up fretting so we all left. A group of 12 and their money which was being spent RAPIDLY. Bad business decision.

[Go Native 70]

Banning smoking in bars and restaurants in Niseko though MB only serves to keep Japanese out. They like a smoke or two over dinner and drinks. And then everyone complains that Niseko is too westernized...

 

I know why these businesses do it. It's because of families like yours that will go elsewhere if there is smoking. And the big money in Niseko in winter is not with the domestic market.

[muikabochi 208]

Quote:

Try a bar with No Smoking signs on the wall with only the bar staff smoking

Did you mention it?

[HelperElfMissy 42]

We did in the end Muika, and they stopped with typical apologetic Japanese style, but the kids were already over it, so we only stayed for one more drink after that.

 

I don't mind there being some smoking bars and some no smoking bars, or smoking rooms within restaurants - in Oz you can nearly always go outside for a smoke, but in Niseko it is blurry cold to be banished to the front stoop for a ciggie! I also have no issue with bars permitting smoking after say 10 or 11pm (when the families have mostly gone).

 

In this instance there were 15 people in the bar, happy to stay, sing and drink - and 5 staff (or friends of staff) - ALL the patrons were non smokers. It would seem sensible that the staff duck outside for a smoke, or into a back room - rather than chain smoke right next to the kiddies, but they just weren't aware.

 

Regardless of the 'sides' of the argument I think that the awareness levels are higher in Australia, whether you like it or not smokers and non smokers alike KNOW when they are being antisocial or when someones habit is being inflicted on others. All but the most arrogant will show consideration. But it is not arrogant or rudeness driving this lack of consideration in Japan - it is simply a lack of AWARENESS that it is even a problem.

[JA2340 16]

It is a surprise to me that in a country where concern for others is so prevalent (to the extent of denigrating one's own achievement to enhance the achievements of the person you are talking to), there is so little concern for the health of other people.

 

I know GN likes a smoke, and I feel sorry for his wife and young child, but smoking in a car (as MB mentioned) is beyond the pale, surely!

[thursday 1]

Bars and restaurants here are all non-smoking. Not bad really, but the smoke surrounds the entrances as those smoking besiege the place.

[Go Native 70]

Originally Posted By: JA

It is a surprise to me that in a country where concern for others is so prevalent (to the extent of denigrating one's own achievement to enhance the achievements of the person you are talking to), there is so little concern for the health of other people.

I know GN likes a smoke, and I feel sorry for his wife and young child, but smoking in a car (as MB mentioned) is beyond the pale, surely!

The anti-smoking craze in Australia has gone beyond common sense in my opinion. It's taken on an almost religious fervor to the point where the extremists want to convert everyone worldwide and to make smokers outcasts from society.

Personally I never smoke in my car or house but do see Japanese people doing it all the time, even with kids inside. I don't believe it's lack of awareness it's just Japan is not the nanny state that Aus is and allows it's people to still make choices for themselves, even if they may be bad ones.

The main reason I think smoking is still so prevalent in this society is because it's not a litigious society like Aus or the US. Banning of smoking in Aus mainly came about because of lawsuits, that sort of thing just doesn't happen here.
I know which society I prefer to live in.

[HelperElfMissy 42]

Originally Posted By: Go Native

Personally I never smoke in my car or house

BC (Before Children) I smoked in my car if I was the only occupant, and sometimes if the others in the car were all smokers and smoking as well. Never in the house because Papa didn't smoke and didn't like it.

After kids I got even more diligent, and never even smoked in front of the kids. Oh and I gave up for the duration of pregnancy every time.

GN - this behavior shows that you consider others and realize that your choices need not necessarily be the choices of others. Not all smokers are inconsiderate polluters of non smokers air as some people might suggest.

Australia may have taken a Nanny state approach initially - however I was a smoker at the time the changes were happening and I didn't feel that any of the changes were undue impositions at all. People can still have their smoke if they choose, and most places you go provide an option for smokers - even if it means ducking outside for one. Whereas the reverse isn't so fair ... I mean it is not really the best to have to duck outside for a breath of fresh air is it?

[Jynxx 4]

I rather have a nanny stste than a police state.

I'm sure some nanny's are better that parental control.

Mary poppins for example ...

[HelperElfMissy 42]

You having a nanny fantasy there Jynxx ol' boy?!

[Jynxx 4]

 

Don't get me wrong, NSW cops are not all that bad. They have been reasonable, polite, and some like big uncle or big sister...

As a whole, Aussies are good people and I miss being there. I wouldn't have lived there for 25 years if I didn't. Even for a society, I say Australia on top. Germany and Japan can loosen up a lot and be aware in situations when it's out of the box.

[HelperElfMissy 42]

But we need more snow.

Bring on an ice age and maybe I will be totally in love with Australia

[Go Native 70]

MB I'm sure a fair portion of us older folk grew up with parents who smoked in the house, in the car and possibly had mothers who smoked whilst they were pregnant us. The world didn't exactly end did it? Most of us managed to survive didn't we?

Sure smoking increases the risk of all sorts of bad things but let's face it the human race aint exactly slowing down in it's growth is it? Most of the baby boomer generation had parents who smoked and we still managed to have one of the biggest population explosions in history.

I personally feel the risk factors have been blown way out of proportion and the disgust and fear of breathing cigarette smoke is also way out of proportion.

I never smoked myself in Aus, I only started when I came to Japan (when I was well into my 30's). Socially it's still quite accepted here so it's certainly better than being a smoker in Aus where you're treated like some sort of leper.

[thursday 1]

no. It has been very unreal in many parts of China. And another cold front coming tomorrow. Bohai asea under 10 metres of ice is not good. The gas fields will stop.

[HelperElfMissy 42]

Originally Posted By: Go Native

I never smoked myself in Aus, I only started when I came to Japan (when I was well into my 30's). Socially it's still quite accepted here so it's certainly better than being a smoker in Aus where you're treated like some sort of leper.

hmmm... well.. As someone who has been a smoker in Australia through those dreaded changes I can personally attest to the fact that I never felt like I was treated like a leper. There will always be whingers who bark about being discriminated against - but the reality was never as bad as that for smokers. Honest.

I lost a school friend last year from lung cancer.
She never smoked.
But she was exposed to passive smoking in relatives homes.

[Sciclone 2]

I detest smoking, pure and simple.

 

On the topic of more annual leave... At one job I was at, the average smokers were away from there desk about an hour a day.. every hour they were allowed to go downstairs and have a ciggie. Most took about 10 minutes. So even in the space of a week they had did 5hrs less work. So per year that equates to about a month less work (5x52=260 divided by 8hr working day is nearly 33 days)

[bobby12 0]

"the disgust and fear of breathing cigarette smoke is also way out of proportion. "

- Not at all, it is the way I feel about it.

 

How can you justify smoking near a non-smoker? Take it somewhere private. You do not understand how disgusting it is.

[Go Native 70]

Well for over 30 years I didn't smoke and grew up in a time in Australia when smoking was still allowed in bars and restaurants. I do have some idea of how a non smoker can feel. When it was socially acceptable to smoke in public in Aus I don't recall that much outrage about it. Since the massive campaigns by health authorities and governments to erradicate it from public spaces I've seen the the righteousness of non smokers grow exponentially.

 

Quote:

I lost a school friend last year from lung cancer.

She never smoked.

But she was exposed to passive smoking in relatives homes.

 

I know some people may find this hard to believe but lung cancer can be caused by other things besides smoking! People die all the times from cancers even if they've never been subjected to cigarette smoke. Most of you who live in big cities breathe in plenty of toxins everyday as well.

[HelperElfMissy 42]

Originally Posted By: Sciclone

On the topic of more annual leave... At one job I was at, the average smokers were away from there desk about an hour a day.. every hour they were allowed to go downstairs and have a ciggie. Most took about 10 minutes. So even in the space of a week they had did 5hrs less work. So per year that equates to about a month less work (5x52=260 divided by 8hr working day is nearly 33 days)

I can see how on the mere face of things that may seem true. And I agree that in some circumstances it may indeed be true for some people. HOWEVER, this kind of 'clock watching' can be extremely misleading and lead to reduced productivity and satisfaction in the workplace.

Regardless of the smoking issue people should not sit at their desks sustained for hours at a time - especially if they are working at a computer or doing repetitive work. They SHOULD have a 10 minute break from that work every hour to reduce the occupational overuse syndromes and maintain focus on their task.

The reality is likely that you and I have both sat at a desk engaged in a task for many hours without a break and have delivered excellent and industrious results for our employers, however we don't always do what is best for us, do we? I know I can be obsessive and overly diligent to the detriment of my health - I have been both an RSI and Chronic Fatigue Syndrome statistic...

What if Person A a smoker delivers higher productivity in 30 hours a week, than Person B a non smoker does in 40 hours per week? Perhaps the reverse is true, but should not the assessment of wage/reward etc be based on productivity, accuracy and benefit to the company rather than mere hours at the desk?