Jynxx 4 Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 One M.D on his website notes: According to a study published this month in The Lancet, alcohol and tobacco rank among the ten most dangerous substances used by humans. Both alcohol and tobacco have been assessed to be more dangerous than illegal drugs like marijuana or ecstasy. The following three factors were considered in ranking the harmfulness of each drug that was evaluated: 1)Physical harm to the user 2)Addictive potential of the drug 3)The drug's overall impact on society Psychiatrists who specialize in treating addictive behavior and legal or police officials with scientific or medical expertise were asked to assign a score to each of the three factors listed above for each drug that was evaluated in this study. All told, 20 different drugs were evaluated, including cocaine, heroin, ecstasy, amphetamines, and LSD. Link to post Share on other sites
Jynxx 4 Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 Clearly there will be subjective opinions depending on the individual evaluating but my point is this: The parameter is not equal. 1) we have a mix of lab quality and backyard bucket job 2) Tobacco - Are we talking addictive free or chemically spiked 3) Cannabis - hydro or bush 4) Solvents at #12 ? You gotta be kidding ! 5) Is there a bias due to more/less user population ? amongst others. Link to post Share on other sites
stemik 14 Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 Originally Posted By: Captain Stag Originally Posted By: thursday Alcohol. You comparing that with crack, coke, heroin? Not even on the same planet. Not as far away as you would think. Consider the effects - consumption can leave you lying in the gutter vomiting, unconsciousness and potentially death; and it’s addictive. How does that compare to the "worst" drugs. "Dad, can i have a sip of your wine"...."No son, but have some of this crack!" "Hey guys, don`t bring beer to the BBQ - just bring some heroin" I agree with Thursday - Not even on the same planet Link to post Share on other sites
snowbender 3 Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 Some of the justifications provided here just make me want to Link to post Share on other sites
thursday 1 Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 Stem, we'll stick to the beer at the barbie. Link to post Share on other sites
jared 0 Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 Originally Posted By: snowbender Some of the justifications provided here just make me want to if you want to you definately should It looks like fun. Link to post Share on other sites
snowbender 3 Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 Hey cheers mate, glad I got your endorsement on that. Was sweating on that one. Link to post Share on other sites
Tubby Beaver 209 Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 Not on the same planet......why exactly?? The only thing clouding peoples vision as to the true danger of drugs is the facts that PEOPLE have given labels to 1 set of drugs and not another. So the governement deems alcohol and tobacco legal, so lets drink and smoke away to oblivion BUT those other guys who have tried those drugs that are on the other list, wow they are scum.... very narrow minded guys. There are no justfications on this thread, just a comparison of facts that mainstream drug users (all you smokers and alcohol inbibers that like to look down on the others) don't like to read about. Stick your head in the sand all you want but current laws are about as use as a chocolate teapot. You want the status quo, well stop complaining about all the anti-social behaviour because thats all the legslation will bring. Its now time to start thinking proactively and progressively and tackle this social problem head on and wow, ecstacy comes in really low there. Below those nice drugs like alcohol and nicotine Link to post Share on other sites
arcadia 0 Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 I can't see any reason why the state should be able to restrict people from harming themselves : which is what drug abuse whether it be alcohol, crack, heroin or solvent, essentially is. If people commit crimes to support or as a result of their drug use then that is a criminal issue. However the drug use itself shouldn't be a crime. Decriminalization seems to me to be a half arsed response. It satisfies libertarian principles but it doesn't allow the state to tax the sale of drugs. Why not tax drug use and use the proceeds for education and treatment? Link to post Share on other sites
Jynxx 4 Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 Well, TB sometimes I think the state wants to keep up dumb and narrow minded. It reminds when coffee shops became popular and being frequented by soldiers in medieval Europe, the captains complained to the lord that their soldiers were having too much intellectual conversation and not drinking enough brew to demonstrate their qualities, and recommended to ban coffee shops. What can be avoided is unnecessary death from bad manufacturing and "cutting" (adding) with bad stuff. This is were legalization can help. Even there is quality control, there will be some deaths due to bad consumption practice. Alcohol for example - Every year in spring, Japanese university freshmen go thru a drinking ritual resulting in death. A lot less now compared to when I was younger, but it still happens even the uni-clubs being advised to refrain from excess by the university. But, it's not like dying from drinking wine diluted by radiator coolant (happened in Italy) or metho-cordial mix. So, unless you know how to test your drugs, ie) melting point test, bleach test for coke you really don't know much of the drug you want to take. This is the immediate danger. Overdose. Allergic reactions resulting in death. Link to post Share on other sites
hellyer 216 Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 I am passing this on to you because it definitely worked for me, and we all could probably use more calm in our lives. Some doctor on television this morning said the way to achieve inner peace is to finish all the things you have started. So I looked around my house to see things I'd started and hadn't finished and, before leaving the house this morning, I finished off a bottle of Merlot, a bottle of shhhardonay, a bodle of Baileys, a butle of vocka, a pockage of Prunglies, tha mainder of bot Prozic and Valum scriptins, the res of the Chesescke an a box a chocolets. Yu haf no idr who frkin gud I fel. Peas sen dis orn to dem yu fee ar in ned ov inr pece. Link to post Share on other sites
yamayamayama 2 Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 Quote: So, unless you know how to test your drugs, ie) melting point test, bleach test for coke you really don't know much of the drug you want to take. This is the immediate danger. Overdose. Allergic reactions resulting in death. Got to laugh at that lot. So do you test your drugs before you take them Jynxx? Sounds like the risks are minimal, so perhaps not really worth the hassle. Link to post Share on other sites
Tubby Beaver 209 Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 in some clubs in Holland you were able to go and test your ecstasy tablet in the club, free from prosecution. They had a wee stall set up, they'd take a scrape sample and test its purity to make sure it was safe Link to post Share on other sites
HelperElfMissy 42 Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 Originally Posted By: Tubby Beaver in some clubs in Holland you were able to go and test your ecstasy tablet in the club, free from prosecution. They had a wee stall set up, they'd take a scrape sample and test its purity to make sure it was safe those who will take the drug, are going to take it whether or not these safety measures are provided. FWIW I think this kind of thing is brilliant, because it keeps a good percentage of people taking these drugs safe from injury due to bad stuff. Link to post Share on other sites
Curt 1 Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 Great idea. Taking it a bit further, perhaps they could be provided with unlimited free drugs (just to make sure that the ones they are taking are ok), and then also free medical treatment (for when they overdose or have drug-related things to sort out). Link to post Share on other sites
Tubby Beaver 209 Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 hmmmm.....sarcasm I presume. Well in my country all healthcare is free, so that even poor people have a right to healthcare. So that would include drug takers, after all they are getting free health care at the moment, whereas if it were legal and taxes levied against them, the money raised could be used to pay the medical bills incurred, thus relieving a money drain on the NHS. Again, people seem to be missing my point. I don't think that drugs should be legalised so that they are widely available in newsagents, supermarkets and sweety shops, rather that the government legalises them and takes control of their manufacture and distribution and ultimately their uptake. There are plenty legal drugs on the market that you can't buy in over the counter. Ones that are strictly controlled by healthcare professionals resulting in their responsible use. I would propose a similar method for the control of illegal drugs. If the government were to control the production they could ensure purity and overdose deaths would plummet, associated conditions would disappear as the impure chemicals that are currently used to cut hard drugs would be elliminated. What exactly do people hate junkies for anyway? Is it because they "have no respect for their bodies" and ingest mind altering drugs or is it that they detest the social problems that come hand in hand with hard core drug use? For me its definitely the latter, I hate the fact that junkies will steal, rob and abuse to find any way to get money for their next fix, and so ruining the quality of life of those around them that choose not to take drugs Link to post Share on other sites
thursday 1 Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 TB, there is no way I would ever be advocating legalising durgs. Link to post Share on other sites
HelperElfMissy 42 Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 Originally Posted By: Tubby Beaver For me its definitely the latter, I hate the fact that junkies will steal, rob and abuse to find any way to get money for their next fix, and so ruining the quality of life of those around them that choose not to take drugs I am definitely in your corner on this TB! The 'horrid scum junkies' could be your siblings, your parents, your kids or your grandkids given a different set of circumstances, and often times the 'dabble' is just that - short lived and temporary. Be nice if they got that chance to live through it and grow up to like themselves and thier lives without relying on drugs... And seriously - there are plenty of people walking about the streets doped to the eyeballs on Valium, Serapax and other forms of depression/psychosis medication - they also dont cope with life without a drug crutch, and sometimes it is just a matter of circumstances as to which group you will fall into when you are struggling to cope. And then there is the group of recreational users - will drop and E once to see what all the fuss is about, and might smoke a joint with some mates once in a decade - they are not a burden on society, and it would be a good thing if that one time they used E was not the one time that it was cut with killer crap. There has to be a better way. I am sure this discussion was had in the back of speakeasy's and in the lounge room over a tipple of bathtub gin in the 1920's in relation to alcohol. Drunk drive - not on. Stoned drive - also not on. Go to work drunk/stoned - not on. What you do in the privacy of your own home, or your mates home (as long as it doesnt cause hurt or injury to others) - no ones business but your own! Link to post Share on other sites
Jynxx 4 Posted September 7, 2009 Share Posted September 7, 2009 I agree Mamabear . I am also concerned about the reaction I am getting, for example yamayama, and want to stress this. I am not advocating safety of drugs. - any drugs. I am concerned about the criminalization and the danger resulting from illegalization. I do not subscribe to the fear tactics the authority uses. ( like in religion; If you don't take Jesus to you life you will go to hell approach.) There are no safe drugs Are you Allergic? Even if you aren't there's always a possibility you might be Do not take drugs you don't know. (source, potency, purity ) Don't become a guinea pig. Do not trust drugs you buy. Understand most dealers are doing it for money, not for the love of drugs. Do not mix drugs Do not inject drugs Link to post Share on other sites
Tubby Beaver 209 Posted September 7, 2009 Share Posted September 7, 2009 Originally Posted By: thursday TB, there is no way I would ever be advocating legalising durgs. why? are you satisfied that the current drug legislation is adequately controlling production and use of illicit drugs and all the social problems that hard drug use brings? Link to post Share on other sites
thursday 1 Posted September 7, 2009 Share Posted September 7, 2009 yes. I have no hang ups about it. Let the addicts die alone, without my tax dollar hospital care. I'll go on enjoying my life and doing what I like doing. Drugs are for LOSERS. Link to post Share on other sites
Jynxx 4 Posted September 7, 2009 Share Posted September 7, 2009 Only, if you have the experience ... Real LSD. you wouldn't be talking that way. maybe eat some mushrooms ... or are some mushrooms food and others drugs ? or a bit of moulding rye bread might do the trick ... Link to post Share on other sites
Tubby Beaver 209 Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 Originally Posted By: thursday yes. I have no hang ups about it. Let the addicts die alone, without my tax dollar hospital care. I'll go on enjoying my life and doing what I like doing. Drugs are for LOSERS. so you think that society is coping well with illicit drug use and controlling any collateral damage that these users cause. Wow Hong Kong must be heaven Link to post Share on other sites
RobBright 35 Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 Whilst at heart I do disagree with drugs, and yes I do include alcohol and tobacco in there as well, being legalized, the safety of it is appealing. The thing that Surprises me is that alcohol is so tightly regulated in terms of what can go into it, yet tobacco has so much crap in it from the manufacturers that am shocked it can still go on sale. The legalization of drugs would be an extra avenue of tax income for the government and could maybe increase the safety of it. Maybe I am naive in suggesting this but surely some kind of ID scheme and check up could help people's addiction? Link to post Share on other sites
Tubby Beaver 209 Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 Originally Posted By: RobBright Whilst at heart I do disagree with drugs, and yes I do include alcohol and tobacco in there as well, being legalized, the safety of it is appealing. The thing that Surprises me is that alcohol is so tightly regulated in terms of what can go into it, yet tobacco has so much crap in it from the manufacturers that am shocked it can still go on sale. The legalization of drugs would be an extra avenue of tax income for the government and could maybe increase the safety of it. Maybe I am naive in suggesting this but surely some kind of ID scheme and check up could help people's addiction? I agree too, I've simply changed my opinion based on the fact that the staus quo is helping no-one oh BTW Rob, that mate of mine who got nabbed by the cops a few years ago, you do know him. I asked him last night Link to post Share on other sites
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