Tubby Beaver 209 Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 TBH I think the market is growing for visitors from UK/Europe etc. As the weather takes its toll on European resorts people are looking for places to go, the usual place would be the North American Rockies. However as more and more people head over there the "trailblazers" are sniffing around looking for the next "untouched" paradise and Japan fits the bill. Just talking to a few Snow-heads before coming out here last year, they were full of questions about the place having heard on the jungle drums about the conditions out here. The trouble is no one KNOWS anything about the resorts here as snowsports is not an image people have about Japan. Link to post Share on other sites
thursday 1 Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 that's why SnowJapan is here. Link to post Share on other sites
Tubby Beaver 209 Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 but you're not allowed to ask questions..... Link to post Share on other sites
Rag-Doll 0 Posted March 10, 2008 Author Share Posted March 10, 2008 I agree with Thursday. It's just a matter of time before the PRC middle class start spending overseas. The enormous numbers involved will swamp the Japanese ski industry, even if only a small fraction take up snow sports. What would 10 million (=0.8% of the PRC population!)or 20 million extra visitors do to the ski industry in Japan, especially if those visitors were focused in a couple of high profile regions. Link to post Share on other sites
Kraut_in_HongKong 0 Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 Originally Posted By: Rag-Doll I agree with Thursday. It's just a matter of time before the PRC middle class start spending overseas. The enormous numbers involved will swamp the Japanese ski industry, even if only a small fraction take up snow sports. What would 10 million (=0.8% of the PRC population!)or 20 million extra visitors do to the ski industry in Japan, especially if those visitors were focused in a couple of high profile regions. I am not sure about that. Ski is not big in China yet. Most of my Chinese friends see ski more as an unsafer form of suicide. Just potential doesn't mean it will happen. I am even not sure about package tours to Japan from China (there are plenty from Hong Kong though). But I am just guessing, I don't know anything.... Link to post Share on other sites
Rag-Doll 0 Posted March 10, 2008 Author Share Posted March 10, 2008 certainly it might not happen. its just that the numbers of people involved are just so large that even a very small fraction of them with the money to holiday overseas were to take up the sport, it will fundementally change the industry in japan. Link to post Share on other sites
thursday 1 Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 The domestic ski market in China is going nuts at the mo. Demand far outstrips supply. The problem for the Japanese resorts is that a Chinese national getting a holiday visa in Japan is next to impossible. Too many Chinese IIs in Japan. What people don't realize is that the Chinese middle class are hiding their wealth for fear of having it forcibly taken from them. They are stashing it in Canada and the States and throwing ridiculous money into shitty pigeon hole flats in HK. Link to post Share on other sites
HelperElfMissy 42 Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 Originally Posted By: thursday. What people don't realize is that the Chinese middle class are hiding their wealth for fear of having it forcibly taken from them. They are stashing it in Canada and the States and throwing ridiculous money into shitty pigeon hole flats in HK. That is interesting Thursday!! Learning stuff all the time around here!! Link to post Share on other sites
thursday 1 Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 shhhh.. don't tell anyone. Link to post Share on other sites
Kraut_in_HongKong 0 Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 Originally Posted By: thursday. What people don't realize is that the Chinese middle class are hiding their wealth for fear of having it forcibly taken from them. They are stashing it in Canada and the States and throwing ridiculous money into shitty pigeon hole flats in HK. There is some truth in there, but they usually spend their money on tangible assets rather then just "fun". I am also not sure that Japan really wants to open the floodgates to large groups tourists from China which usually have behavioral problems. That would scare away local tourists. It will stay a niche market, such as golf. Link to post Share on other sites
Rag-Doll 0 Posted March 11, 2008 Author Share Posted March 11, 2008 > I am also not sure that Japan really wants to open the floodgates to large groups tourists from China which usually have behavioral problems. That would scare away local tourists. what? You mean they're worse than the Aussies at Niseko! Link to post Share on other sites
HelperElfMissy 42 Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 Originally Posted By: Rag-Doll what? You mean they're worse than the Aussies at Niseko! Yes! But I don't think it is malicious. There is just no such thing as queuing up and waiting your turn - which would clash horridly with the polite and patient customs of the Japanese. But as we globalise are we not becoming more sensitive to our own behaviour? Are we not (well some of us) adjusting our own conduct to be more culturally sensitive when we travel? I think we are. And I would imagine that exposure to, and education of, appropriate conduct for local area's would see that gliche sorted. Link to post Share on other sites
stillnoprogress 0 Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 i don't like the English can we ban them? It's a ski resort not a country club where you can decide who be a member. Japan's population is clearly declining, they have no natural resources, property prices and consumer prices are stable at best, and the immigration stance and tax rate prohibits external factors to bring much change. Japan has to try and capitalize on it's natural beauty (read "snow") and HAS to encourage tourism from Chinese, Russians, Aussies, Koreans, Indians, etc etc. Most of the ski areas in Japan are in massive need of capital investment and this is going to be the only way it's going to happen. Otherwise we have to keep riding those stoopid f--king romance chairs. Link to post Share on other sites
Kraut_in_HongKong 0 Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 Originally Posted By: Mamabear There is just no such thing as queuing up and waiting your turn - which would clash horridly with the polite and patient customs of the Japanese. It's not exactly correct to say that people in China don't que up. They do - but often at the wrong end of the line. Ski is, and will stay and expensive elite activity that appeals to a small minority. It should be also remembered that people in China don't get paid holidays. They can only travel on national holidays, that would be name Chinese New Year - at that time Japan is already full to capacity with tourists from HK and TW. I was there during that time and had real difficulties finding hotels in Tokyo. Link to post Share on other sites
Tubby Beaver 209 Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 Originally Posted By: Kraut_in_HongKong Ski is, and will stay and expensive elite activity that appeals to a small minority. I think this is an outdated concept (or at least becoming outdated). This was the view in many places, but snowboarding seems to have appealed to the masses and doesn't have the elitist rep that skiing does. Whether people have stayed boarding or went onto ski I dunno, but I think the "snow sports are elitist sports" is old hat. It may well change in China Link to post Share on other sites
Fattwins 0 Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 But I like riding slow chairs with you! Link to post Share on other sites
Rag-Doll 0 Posted March 11, 2008 Author Share Posted March 11, 2008 >Ski is, and will stay and expensive elite activity that appeals to a small minority. It's strange but the IDEA that snow sports are for the wealthy and successful combined with the facilities being available to joe average is a great recipe for it to appeal to the masses. all it takes is for the community to develop the view that skiing is a cool thing for the up and coming and before you know it you've got a boom on your hands. Consider the appeal of brand labels generally, LV, for example, it's great marketing to present your product as being something associated with the rich and famous but price it within reach of the aspirational class. Ski resorts don't need to be that cynical because there is already the idea in some parts of the community that skiing is for the elite. Add that belief to affordable prices and a growing group of wealthy yuppies with nothing better to do with their cash and, well, boom! Ok, it might not happen and there are a few other bits that need to be in place but for the mainland chinese, holidaying in the snow can quite easily become just as much a status symbol as an AMG Benz or LV handbag or club membership or keeping a mistress or two.. Link to post Share on other sites
quattro 1 Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 Originally Posted By: Tubby Beaver Originally Posted By: Kraut_in_HongKong Ski is, and will stay and expensive elite activity that appeals to a small minority. I think this is an outdated concept (or at least becoming outdated). This was the view in many places, but snowboarding seems to have appealed to the masses and doesn't have the elitist rep that skiing does. Whether people have stayed boarding or went onto ski I dunno, but I think the "snow sports are elitist sports" is old hat. It may well change in China TB Have you seen the prices of things elsewhere. Lift tickets at Vail are $80 for a day. Skis are upward of $600. How can you not say that there is not a bit of elitism there. Link to post Share on other sites
thursday 1 Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 Kraut, we're not talking about the migrant workers in the sweatshop who can travel only during CNY. The mainland middle class are the college professors, the business owners, the beurocrats and the like. They number in the hundreds of millions who are shrewd enough to not get in your face with excessive conspicuous consumption. There are ski resorts in China, but they are still crap and will be for a very long time. Demand is already way overwhelming supply. If you're a ski instructor, get some Mandarin lessons. Link to post Share on other sites
Tubby Beaver 209 Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 Originally Posted By: quattro Originally Posted By: Tubby Beaver Originally Posted By: Kraut_in_HongKong Ski is, and will stay and expensive elite activity that appeals to a small minority. I think this is an outdated concept (or at least becoming outdated). This was the view in many places, but snowboarding seems to have appealed to the masses and doesn't have the elitist rep that skiing does. Whether people have stayed boarding or went onto ski I dunno, but I think the "snow sports are elitist sports" is old hat. It may well change in China TB Have you seen the prices of things elsewhere. Lift tickets at Vail are $80 for a day. Skis are upward of $600. How can you not say that there is not a bit of elitism there. Fair enough, those prices are mental. I have seen in the past few years more and more people taking up the sport and these people aren't exactly the high flyers!! Also taking into consideration that Vail caters towards the snobby set. Vail has an image that it wants, and the people who go there want to maintain. In that respect its like golf, expensive as hell in the snooty clubs but good golf can be had for relatively cheap on other courses. I felt that snow sports have been going the same way. Link to post Share on other sites
tripitaka 0 Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 Even NZ has hit $90 per day in some resorts. The less wealthy Wanaka locals are very bitter about the situation. Link to post Share on other sites
SerreChe 2 Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 Back home, local kids all the up to high school have the season pass for free. Link to post Share on other sites
Tubby Beaver 209 Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 90$ NZ? what is that in Yen? Link to post Share on other sites
thursday 1 Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 7,400Y Link to post Share on other sites
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