Filthy Aussie power stations

[Mantas 3]

Not too much to be proud of here.

.

The Washington-based Centre for Global Development has surveyed the emissions of 50,000 power stations around the world.

 

It finds that Australia's power sector is the world's worst in per capita carbon dioxide emissions.

 

Two power stations, the Bayswater and Eraring plants in the New South Wales Hunter Valley, are among the top 100 greenhouse gas emitters in the world.

I worked on one of those power stations as an apprentice.

[9015peter 0]

"world's worst greenhouse gas emitter on a per capita basis". If we had another 100 million people in Australia we probably would not be on the list

[Go Native 70]

If you had another 100 mill in Aus you'd just have a whole heap more of those power stations. Australia's reliance on coal powered stations is the problem...

[HelperElfMissy 42]

What do you recommend? Nuclear?

 

I have been singing the praises of photovoltaic cells for Aus conditions for years, but the only way they will take off is if there is some government subsidy to get them started in mass production. We have so much sunshine it just makes sense - the hotter it is the more sunshine the more power that is made and the more that is used for airconditioning... makes sense! And by having 2 way power generation where the excess power from homes cells is sent back into the grid and creditted to the house of origin there will be little need for any other type of power generation to fill the gaps.

 

But! Peoples power bills will plumet.. and that is exactly why it has not taken off yet! I have done the math, and we can get the cells installed with this 'from and to' the grid system, and at current prices it will take 80 years to pay for itself!!! I have been holding off hoping like most technology that the price will come down!

[Go Native 70]

The funny thing is Australia has some of the most energy efficient building regulations anywhere. The problem though is that although all new houses are much more efficient that they were 30 years ago they are also on average much much bigger. Everyone wants to live in massive homes and any savings that may have been made from the efficient building practices have been lost to the building size increases.

 

Mama there are many different types of renewable energy sources that could make a big difference but whilst coal is still so cheap and easily accessible nothing is going to change any time soon.

 

Nuclear is an interesting issue. I actually didn't follow the recent debate in Aus about it (we don't get much international news here in Japan and frankly I just don't much care about Australia anymore) but without doubt it is a pretty efficient energy source. It's always going to be the waste that is the main concern. Still I can't but feel that if there is anywhere in the world that is reasonably safe to store the waste it has got to be Aus as it's so geologically stable, large and dry. France gets near 80% of it's energy from nuclear and has been doing it safely for a long time now.

 

Per capita Aus is one of the worst offending countries in the world for CO2 emissions and it's going to take a massive shift in mindset to turn this around.

[ausi ski bum 1]

We have so much coal its hard to justify not using it but some of the older plants really have passed their use by date

[HelperElfMissy 42]

I think that the big fear about nuclear in Aus is exactly because we are the ideal storage unit for nuclear waste. If we are not using nuclear power and therefore not needing to store it we can justify not being the dumping ground for everywhere else. But once we join the nuclear power users of the world - we will get the pressure to take the spent uranium/nuclear waste from the countries that have less stable geology.

 

I really like solar!

 

I saw a TV doco on a Chinese fellow who studied here, and then went back to China to develop his solar power business - China needs this too! And he has got the prices way down - I just hope this filters through to mass use before the damage is catastrophic.

 

 Quote:

We have so much coal its hard to justify not using

Same goes for sunshine, Sunshine!

[indosnm 0]

I'm betting on nuclear power stations in oz in the future and more world wide though I hope in countries that have decent safety standards.

I've invested a fair bit in the old U308. There was a big drop in the price of Uranium after Japans last quake because of the leak scare, but that has to come down to really bad engineering and construction of that power station.

 

Mama your right about solar but it just isn't cost effective yet.

[Domokun_72dpi 0]

Mamabear is on the right path.

If home users were given an affordable means by which to lower their own consumption, they would. Using photovoltaric cells to power your house is a proven, effective means by which home users can reduce carbon emmissions, and pump power back into the grid, to a point where you are actually earning money.

 

The reasons why our government does not subsidise new technology, is because we are sitting on a wealth of natural resources, which, as we see now, can be sold for billions of dollars to rapidly developing countries like china.

 

Lets's not forget, that even if Australia lowered carbon emmissions, they are still responsible for one of the biggest CO2 emmitters in the world.

 

I am sick to death of these debates between clean energy lobbyists, natural resource promoters and nuclear developers. The debates outline the neccesity to move forth to help reduce climate change, immprove health etc, yet the govenrment doesn't want to know about it.

 

Western Australia has just signed a "hell no, we won't glow" declaration against the introduction of Nuclear, yet has not made any committment towards clean energy. For goodness sake, several companies involved in BioDiesel are going broke now because of government regulations, and they even withdrew tax benefits for carbon offsetting by forest regrowth.

 

What is our bloody country doing?

 

I work for the Department of Environment and Conservation as a web developer, so i get to build websites that promote eco sutstainability, and it really gets me that we are fighting an uphill battle.

 

If any of you feel passionate about this stuff, i am also soon to release a website about sustainability and eco-friendly living. i could do with some authors =)

 

Anyhow, it's up to us to make a difference, cos the government sure isn't doing anything yet. maybe Kevin Rudd will make a difference?, here's to hope for the future...

[Mantas 3]

Can someone tell me what Japan's power stations run on?

[HelperElfMissy 42]

I know at least one is nuclear - I was studying it will my son who is studying Japanese ... and it is built on a seismologically active area!!

[Tubby Beaver 209]

Mamabear, the whole of Japan is like that!! hehe.

 

I just don7t think that Nuclear power is worth it due to the waste it produces. I agree that if governments are really serious about cutting pollution then they have to start to subsidise or invest more in developing renewable energy sources. australia is abundant in sunshine, I feel the same about Scotland, windy as hell, why not more wind turbines? the UK is surrounded by the sea (as is Oz), why not invest more in wave power? Thats going to be the only way to improve pollution as Nuclear, while not giving off emissions directly, has too large a potential for disaster. If that happens then the pollution is going to be a million times worse than CO2 emissions!!

[HelperElfMissy 42]

I agree with you!

The waste might be minimal now, but if the world converts to nuclear it becomes a bit like the plastic shopping bag problem... a cumulative ecological disaster.

 

And yeah - Japan being seismologically active - got it - I have the IRIS Seismic Monitor on my favourites...LOL! But this sucker was RIGHT on top of a known fault or highly active zone...can't remember precisely the details - it was a while back.

 

With the use of the renewable energies you talk about - there is MUCH less of a waste issue. Sure maybe the odd Solar Cell past it's useby date needing disposal - but no direct WASTE from the conversion of these sources into energy. NO, they are not financially viable right now - why? BECAUSE our governments can make more monye from digging dirty coal or saleable uranium from the ground... All it needs is innovation, research and mass manufacture to bring the price down.

 

How many people owned a front loader in Australia 10 years ago? Not many!! Now days people are buying them in droves (I have one!) and why? because they were subsidized by the government to allow them to be more affordable. As the price dropped more people bought them, thus enabling cheaper and more efficient manufacture due to the volume. Less water is being used in washing clothes thanks to this subsidy. Lets see something similar happening with renewable clean power!

[Tubby Beaver 209]

it took me a while to find out what a front loader is

 

In Japan its still the same old top loading machine which is gash at washing clothes. The front loading ones are definitely better. In the UK thats all we have, I can't remember seeing a top loading machine for sale in a shop. My granny used to have one but that was about 20 years ago

 

I agree totally with you, its not that there isn't renewable energy its just that its too expensive to develop/ use just now...Also that the governments can also be looking at various other social factors such as unemployment figures, if they close down lots of coal mines (as happend in the 70's and 80's in the UK) then unemploment goes through the roof and small communities can fall to rack and ruin if there is nothing to step into the gap

[HelperElfMissy 42]

Yeah, all those things are important, but in all reality if the state of global warming and our need to act is as bad as the indications say .. then now is the time to re-train coal workers in Solar production and the like, and make a rapid and effective shift to more renewable energy resources.

 

We have seen massive mobilization of resources in times of catastrophic events, this seems pretty catastrophic to me .... time for ACTION!

[NoFakie 45]

The first thing Australia should be using is solar hot water. Its very low tech, easy to make, and pays itself off in much less time than PV (solar panels for electricity). Its normally only five years or so for a commercial system. You can even make a gravity feed one out of an old radiator or plastic bottles if you put your mind to it, but you'd never get planning permission if you have neighbours.

 

In the UK, they say two plants worth of electricity could be saved by turning off devices left on standby. Its pathetic. Here's hoping that big solar chimney power station will soon be working in Oz. And the hot rock plant. In the meantime, turn off your ipod charger, the video, and the satellite receiver.

 

Japan has very high energy efficiency *standards* for new houses, its just that they are guidelines and are not mandatory. The Region I (Hokkaido) Standard is very impressive. You could be very toasty with next to no heating if you built to that. The problem is that most people build much lower quality houses, basically due to cost and lack of awareness.

[Tubby Beaver 209]

 Originally Posted By: Mr Wiggles

The first thing Australia should be using is solar hot water. Its very low tech, easy to make, and pays itself off in much less time than PV (solar panels for electricity). Its normally only five years or so for a commercial system. You can even make a gravity feed one out of an old radiator or plastic bottles if you put your mind to it, but you'd never get planning permission if you have neighbours.

In the UK, they say two plants worth of electricity could be saved by turning off devices left on standby. Its pathetic. Here's hoping that big solar chimney power station will soon be working in Oz. And the hot rock plant. In the meantime, turn off your ipod charger, the video, and the satellite receiver.

Japan has very high energy efficiency *standards* for new houses, its just that they are guidelines and are not mandatory. The Region I (Hokkaido) Standard is very impressive. You could be very toasty with next to no heating if you built to that. The problem is that most people build much lower quality houses, basically due to cost and lack of awareness.

tell me about it!! My house is freezing at night time and early morning. No insulation and no heating system so we have to rely on halogen heaters (shite and costly) and parrafin heater (warm, cheap but smelly). We really could use insulation and double glazing here but they don't

[indosnm 0]

Wigs, alot of people do use solar hot water systems, though not enough.

I saw a while back that the government had a rebate scheme going for people buying new systems.

Made it very cheap.

[Domokun_72dpi 0]

I built a website at work that deals with all of Western Australian government environmental initiatives: http://www.actnow.wa.gov.au/

 

It is a really good start, but lacks user interaction (being a government agency, it's not policy to have user feedback & discussions.

 

Oh, did you know that Japan came up with the worlds first oxygen cleaning front loader?, very cool. Now, if it could only use this on green power, it would be perfect...

 

Hey SJF, i am following link guidelines, these are not self promo, they are for the environemnt... Just making sure I don't get in trouble....

[js 0]

There's a lot of misinformation about the Coal vs Nuke CO2 debate.

 

If you look at the entire lifecycle of both, Nuke acutally produces more CO2 than coal, besides the hazardous waste.

 

If they can use CO2 scrubbers on submarines and spacecraft, why not on power stations?

 

Yeah, solar, wind, etc is the future - again, it's the greedy industrialist and vested-interest scientists that push the nuke idea.

[Domokun_72dpi 0]

Good point Subzero.

 

Also, the amount of water needed to cool reactors is another problem..

 

One reason why Australia sucks with this, is because we have massive amounts of uranium that we can minbe, hence add to the economy.

 

I think it's about time that mother nature took over....

[Oyuki kigan 0]

anyone read "The Weather Makers" by Tim Flannery? EXACTLY what we are talking about.

[Mantas 3]

Reading it now Oyuki. Did you know he was awarded Australian of the year?

 

I'm currently in the process of educating myself of pros and cons of solar, wind, nuclear power ect..

 

One of the areas of energy use that I can speak with authority about is the amount of wasted energy in the commercial sector of our our societies. Turning devices of in your home and switching to energy efficient light bulbs all has merit, but we need to keep the numbers in perspective.

 

One 7 kw toilet exhaust fan in a commercial building left running 24 hours a day would use more power in one year than a dozen households.

 

One 240 kw Chilled water plant to service a buildings Air con system left running 24 hours a day (to satisfy the 4 cleaners working in the building at night) would use would use more power than all the peoples homes that work in the building.

 

Shopping centers with not a speck of natural light. The very ceiling that's blocking the natural light is then fitted with masses of high energy heat producing lights.

 

So how do they compensate for that extra heat??????? More air conditioning of course.

 

Whenever I try to persuade a client to upgrade their systems and get them automated, they always same the thing. "the pay back is too long" Anything longer than a 7 year payback is too long. Why?

 

BECAUSE ENERGY IS TOO CHEAP IN THIS COUNTRY !

 

There is one aluminium smelter not far from here. It uses 15% of the state of NSW's power consumption. There's another 1 hour away. There are hundreds of process plants and mines in the region.

 

Individuals in their homes can only do so much. It's industry and the commercial sector that needs to be targeted.

[thursday 1]

BECAUSE ENERGY IS TOO CHEAP IN THIS COUNTRY !

 

This is the primary motivator. You know the price of gas in China? It's subsidized by the gov. It is very cheap. But you can't get any cos it's costing the oil companies to supply it to you.