ncorrenti 0 Posted May 20, 2006 Share Posted May 20, 2006 Today at work we had a nice farewell lunch for a coworker. Afterwards there was a heap of food that needed to be put away and a pile of dishes and cutlery to be washed. Everyone in the office carried their own stuff into the kitchen... the men left all their stuff on the table and went back to their desks while the women cleaned everything up. It wasn't until we'd almost finished that I said, "Hang on... why is it our responsibility to clean up? Shouldn't the guys be in here helping?" The other ladies agreed that the guys should be helping but then shrugged and said it was "just easier" if we girls did it. I'm quite baffled... these women are all 'career' oriented and I know for a fact that they all demand that their husbands/partners do their fair share of the domestic duties. So why is it that they're happy to be subservient to the men at work? Strange. Link to post Share on other sites
daver 0 Posted May 20, 2006 Share Posted May 20, 2006 that is an interesting scenerio that you have witnessed. from your discription of these women, i doubt that they would have seen it as being subservient. perhaps they see it simply as a waste of time to ask said gentle men to help because the help offered would be useless anyways. so maybe these women are doing the job because they know that it would in fact be more stressfull and painfull to first witness said pathetic men attempt to clean up, and then to have to ocastrate the venture which really should take no effort at all. these men have probably always been dependant on women, and i doubt that your co-workers want to do what these men's mothers should have done a long time ago and teach them how to be responsible for themselves. so is it sexism in the workplace, or a group of mature women understanding that they work with a group of babies? Link to post Share on other sites
bushpig 0 Posted May 20, 2006 Share Posted May 20, 2006 Unless, of course, the men realize they will be viewed like this and so deliberately have acted like that before to prove they are useless, therefore warding off any future attempts to be drawn in to the cleaning... Link to post Share on other sites
slow 0 Posted May 20, 2006 Share Posted May 20, 2006 It doesn't matter whether men or women, some are attentive and some are not. Don't expect anything from those non attentive people. I really don't like those women who think they are 'career' oriented and don't want to chore in the office. Link to post Share on other sites
bushpig 0 Posted May 20, 2006 Share Posted May 20, 2006 Slow, do you think I would be right to say that in Japan, 99% of the time it is the women who do the chores such as cleaning and washing up? Of course I am referring to the workplace, not the home. Does that really seem fair? The issue isn't whether or not they are attentive (although yes, there are women like that too), but rather the attitude held by the majority of men that the women should be the ones to do it. Link to post Share on other sites
ncorrenti 0 Posted May 20, 2006 Author Share Posted May 20, 2006 I think it is sexism. If everyone in the office was only expected to carry out tasks based on traditional gender roles, well, that would be one thing... but it's not like that. All the girls in our office are expected to do 'men's work' from time to time, e.g. carrying heavy boxes, setting up computer networks, helping the boss lay pavers in the new courtyard, moving office furniture when the carpet cleaners come... the list goes on. These jobs are all outside our position descriptions and most are physically strenuous, but not one of us complains and we're always happy to pitch in and help. So why is it that the men in the office are allowed, even expected, to sit on their fat arses while we clean their dirty dishes? It shits me. Slow, I'm not saying career women should be 'above' doing chores in the workplace - but I think men should be doing their share of the chores. I think Bushpig is right - it's not about attentiveness or even capability - I mean, if you can't wash a plate by the time you've entered the workforce you're a bit of a no-hoper. It all comes down to attitude. Link to post Share on other sites
TJ OZ 0 Posted May 20, 2006 Share Posted May 20, 2006 If all the woman left the men to do the cleaning, I don't think they would be screaming sexism. Sometimes in life men and woman do the gender split and there is nothing wrong with that. Men and woman are different (hunters/gatherers). Take more notice within society and you will witness it more often. It is not sexism.The next time someone you know dies take note of how the genders separate. Maybe you need to employ a gay guy to help you with the dishes next time so you dont see it as sexism. Oops I think that might be some sort of ism Link to post Share on other sites
daver 0 Posted May 20, 2006 Share Posted May 20, 2006 nicole, i think sexism is a little bit much. it sounds more simply like pathetic to me. i suspect that if you were to walk into any of these guy's appartments you would find that they treat their own homes the same way. that is assuming that they even eat at home. i don't think that it is something that they outwardly think women should be doing, but rather, they just don't think it needs to be done. not sexism, but you hit the nail on the head with "no-hoper". i have lived with many guys and girls that lived like that. regardless of how many times i told them to clean up their shit, regardless of how many times i cleaned up directly in front of them, regardless of how many times i piled up all their shit in front of their doors, they simply ignored it. inevitably it always came down to me to clean the area up. now that isn't sexism is it? it is just some people being filthy and others not. pathetic yes, sexist i don't think so. i'm not suggesting that sexism does not exist in the workplace, it just doesn't seem like the scenerio you describe is so much the case. Link to post Share on other sites
Oyuki kigan 0 Posted May 21, 2006 Share Posted May 21, 2006 I for one hate sexism, but the men certainly aren't gonna change themselves. However, i hardly know any japanese women who are willing to rock the boat and actually do something about it. Gaman is a virtue in japan that is taken to the extremes. Link to post Share on other sites
jgraves 0 Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 wait wait wait wait wait. That whole thing about the weak, submissive, subserviant Japanese woman is a COMPELTE myth. Anyone guy who has ever dated (or married) a Japanese woman can back me up on this one. I seem to be under the misconception that the act of washing the dishes involves transforming the dishes from a dirty to a clean state. Yet I am constantly being yelled at by the women in my life (mother, sister-in-law, ex-girlfriends, wife) for doing the dishes "the wrong way." To this day, I still don't know what the "right way" to do dishes is, and every woman I've ever asked refuses to answer the question, shoving me out of the kitchen in riteous indignation saying "Oh, never mind, I'll do it." Apparently, there is even a "right" way to load a dishwasher. . . Link to post Share on other sites
soubriquet 0 Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 Right on. You've forgotten, or never experienced, that there is also a wrong way to load the washing machine, hang out the washing and vacuum clean a floor. Leave it to the experts, I say. Link to post Share on other sites
nagoid 4 Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 I thought that might just be me. In my own apartment, I'm not "allowed" to do any washing, cleaning and a few other things. (Not that I particularly want to do these things, but it's a big issue it seems) Link to post Share on other sites
rach 1 Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 In my office there's a few guys who truly do treat the OLs like dirt. It may be their job but they need to be shown at least a bit of respect. Some of the guys really shout their orders around and often say things that I find totally unacceptable. They know better than to do it to me. As for washing the dishes. I like a guy who does the cooking, dishes and washing. Link to post Share on other sites
TheOrange 0 Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 nicole, is this in Australia? Ladies where i work do all that kind of thing. Always. Part of the job description seems! Link to post Share on other sites
tsondaboy 0 Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 At my place this is how it works: I cook – she washes the dishes, she cooks (very few times) I wash the dishes (very few times). Fair and square. Link to post Share on other sites
ncorrenti 0 Posted May 23, 2006 Author Share Posted May 23, 2006 The Orange, yes it is in Aus. Link to post Share on other sites
IIIII 2 Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 Where I work, people do their own cleaning up - guys do their own. They even make the green tea for some of the ladies from time to time. (Though I think that is to try and impress them more than anything else ) Link to post Share on other sites
daver 0 Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 Quote: Originally posted by nicole: The Orange, yes it is in Aus. well then it should not be too surprising now. should it? Link to post Share on other sites
guzzlers-baps 0 Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 And I thought Australian males were enlightened. Is it not true? Link to post Share on other sites
soubriquet 0 Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 Try searching these forums for "beer wench" Link to post Share on other sites
bushpig 0 Posted May 25, 2006 Share Posted May 25, 2006 Nice one Soub! Although in my case at least that one is a two way door! I do wenching duties* happily when required. *Getting drinks and refilling glass. Not any shady type of practice as I anticipate some smart-arse will reply with. Link to post Share on other sites
ncorrenti 0 Posted May 25, 2006 Author Share Posted May 25, 2006 Hehe the majority of Aussie males are enlightened, or so I'd like to think... Link to post Share on other sites
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