veronica 2 Posted November 28, 2003 Share Posted November 28, 2003 What do you guys on here (and girls I suppose) think of prostitution? It was interesting to hear the views of some good Japanese male friends recently over some beers. It seems after a few drinks and they were being (seemingly) truthful, that they thought it was fairly acceptable. And extra to the usual married life, so to speak. And something actively hunted if they go overseas. They claimed to be talking for "the masses". I wonder. Your thoughts? Acceptable? Would you? HAVE you? Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean11 0 Posted November 28, 2003 Share Posted November 28, 2003 Demand => Supply Link to post Share on other sites
Fattwins 0 Posted November 28, 2003 Share Posted November 28, 2003 My feeling is if I have to pay for sex Im not much of a man or person. Link to post Share on other sites
indosnm 0 Posted November 28, 2003 Share Posted November 28, 2003 would you go as far as saying that alot of chicks here are whores? i think so. they just aren't taking cash.. their currency is LV bags etc, Link to post Share on other sites
damian 0 Posted November 28, 2003 Share Posted November 28, 2003 Quote: Originally posted by Fattwins: My feeling is if I have to pay for sex I’m not much of a man or person. I could say all sorts of things regarding pros, but "being a man" has nothing to do with paying for sex. Buddy, the true essence of a man has nothing to do with your abilities to pull the opposite sex, rather than pay for it. Try rating your worth as a man on concepts such as compassion, humility, strength of heart, the justness of your judgement and so on. No doubt you already do. Being 'a man' has nothing to do with the fact that you can stand and piss at the same time, nor if you can 'get some' without handing over cash cash. Do not read into this to determine my opinion regarding hookers (even though I am sure my thoughts are obvious), but do draw conclusions about what I regard to be the true measure of 'a man'. A task which, by the way, I feel that some randomly high number like 95% of us fail at. And as for the "... or a person" end to the above quote: if you think paying reduces you as a person then I interpolate worse for your opinions of her as a person. Everyone has their own opinion (obviously!) but I say two things 1. I have done way 'worse' for free, 2. I have done way 'worse' in the name of professional corporate pursuit. Sure , I kept my clothes on, but in terms of decent human ethics.... I was the loser. All for more cash, which I got. note: I put the word 'worse' in the ' ' things as I do not actually mean to imply that prostitution is bad, rather building on what was implied by the quoted post. db Link to post Share on other sites
scouser 4 Posted November 29, 2003 Share Posted November 29, 2003 I agree. Nothing to do with being a man or not. Maybe your own pride has something to do with it. I do find it a little distressing some of the attitudes of some Japanese guys on the whole subject too. Or maybe I should just loosen up a bit Link to post Share on other sites
indosnm 0 Posted November 29, 2003 Share Posted November 29, 2003 nice words db Also in some places using the services of a hooker you are actually doing alot for them as a person. and contributing to the local economy directly. does that make you "more of a man or a person" Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean11 0 Posted November 29, 2003 Share Posted November 29, 2003 Fattwins neatly states the 'conventional case' there, and I'd like to have a go at picking its bones too. You could just as well as turn it around and say "You are a more of a man and a person if you can pay for sex." This suggests that you are bright enough to have disposable income to pay for things that you want, that you have an active sexual appetite, and that you like variety - all usually regarded as positive traits. The common misconception of people who pay for sex is that they 'have' to. This may be the case with some, but for many it isn't true at all. It's a choice, even for those who can't 'get it' any other way. Once you separate 'sex' from 'making love', prostitution becomes inevitable, and by making facile judgements about it turns people into repressive hypocrites and spoils it for everyone. Link to post Share on other sites
Siren 0 Posted November 29, 2003 Share Posted November 29, 2003 I shall refrain from making any comment on the topic. Link to post Share on other sites
sweetaz 0 Posted November 29, 2003 Share Posted November 29, 2003 nice one db, very well put. i think what also has to be considered is how the girl feels about it?? Just because there are prostitutes does not mean that is thier prefered vocation. Perhaps this should also be factored into the equation while justifying it? However one could argue that there has and always will be prostitues(because there is a need), therefore there is nothing i personally can do to change this fact - not that most men would want to anyhoo. Also...saying that I've made the "choice" to use one - I think is really a cheap excuse. Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean11 0 Posted November 29, 2003 Share Posted November 29, 2003 sweetaz, some nice logic going on there. So all prostitutes are 'girls' are they? It's entirely a men abusing women thing is it then? So everybody in other trades are all ecstatic about being there are they? So there's no choice involved for anyone then? So any considered view that doesn't fit with sweetaz logic is an 'excuse' is it? Link to post Share on other sites
Fattwins 0 Posted November 29, 2003 Share Posted November 29, 2003 Hmm pretty deep stuff. I thought I could say this Quote: My feeling is if I have to pay for sex I’m not much of a man or person. and get away with it. I too know people who have gone down the pay for sex route. They have not found it very fulfilling in many ways. Db, Sex is in part conquest and true feelings, it's hard to separate the 2 in my opinion. I prefer to have both at this point in my life. I have been down the sex with no meaning road and I’m bad at dealing with the after effects. As too my comment I have never felt the need to be more of a person than what I am. My feeling or that comment meant to convey that "I would feel hollow inside if I ever stepped down that road". I would in fact be betraying my own values. Link to post Share on other sites
mogski 0 Posted November 29, 2003 Share Posted November 29, 2003 I am a prostitute. I work in a company for money. Link to post Share on other sites
enderzero 0 Posted November 29, 2003 Share Posted November 29, 2003 Quote: Originally posted by Ocean11: So all prostitutes are 'girls' are they? I think the overwhelming amount of females in the profession compared to males (and what percentage of those males are to service other males) points to there being something inherently wrong ...so I am gonna go out on a limb here ( ) and say that prostitution is morally wrong. What are the positives that come from it? Taking poor girls from Chiang Mai and bringing them to Roppongi? Come on. Personally it has just always seemed unattractive to me. Any profession (i.e. stripper) where a girl uses her sexuality as her main job skill has always left a bad taste in my mouth. Obviously there are varying degrees of this, but prostitution is at the top. It just doesn't turn me on. Link to post Share on other sites
miteyak 0 Posted November 29, 2003 Share Posted November 29, 2003 I've always found it rather ironic that, although we espouse to hold mental attributes in the highest esteem, and physical ones in the lowest, we praise those that sell their mental abilities for middling incomes, but slander those that sell physical ones for high returns. Link to post Share on other sites
sweetaz 0 Posted November 29, 2003 Share Posted November 29, 2003 Quote: Originally posted by Ocean11: sweetaz, some nice logic going on there. So all prostitutes are 'girls' are they? It's entirely a men abusing women thing is it then? So everybody in other trades are all ecstatic about being there are they? So there's no choice involved for anyone then? Y thank you O11 i thought so. Majority are women...i think you'd be on your own to think otherwise. I can't speak for everyone - but i suspect the jobs they have definately preferable to prositution. Don't you think that was a bit of a weak arguement O11?? come on. "So any considered view that doesn't fit with sweetaz logic is an 'excuse' is it?" No, everyone is entitled to thier own feelings.....but i believe an "opinion" should be based on fact. Justifying going to a prostitute as nothing other than a "choice" is like a fat person saying that they simply choose to be fat, or a bitch saying that she chooses to be a bitch. Each is a justification for their actions...but is is ok? I think not. and fyi - i am not against prositution, i can see the need for it. I just don't have to like it. Link to post Share on other sites
sweetaz 0 Posted November 29, 2003 Share Posted November 29, 2003 Quote: Originally posted by enderzero: [/QB] What are the positives that come from it? Taking poor girls from Chiang Mai and bringing them to Roppongi? Come on. [/QB] couldn't have said it better myself! thanks endz !! Link to post Share on other sites
miteyak 0 Posted November 29, 2003 Share Posted November 29, 2003 And for some good ol' western hypocracy... How many parents used to, and still do worry about the financial standing of a man their daughter might marry. Is this not sanctioning a form of monogomous prostitution... The problem with prostitution, along with most illicit activites serving up vice to the masses, is the fact that it's illegal, therefore uncontrolled. Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean11 0 Posted November 29, 2003 Share Posted November 29, 2003 OK, a quick test of the morality issue... A young man goes through school, and finding that he's not very bright, he discovers that his career options seem to be working as a hod carrier or joining the army. As his choice to use drugs occasionally rules out the army, he chooses to be a builder's labourer. As such, only his physical strength is required of him. No skill or acumen is ever even desirable. In the course of his job, which he comes to hate, he is exposed to a variety of dangers against which little or no protection is offered. Is he immoral? Is his employer immoral? In what points does his position differ from that of a prostitute? What are the positives of his job/position? Most arguments against prostitution such as enderzero's take the approach of moral condemnation followed by an attack on the conditions of the business that result in large measure from the moral condemnation in the first place. Link to post Share on other sites
damian 0 Posted November 29, 2003 Share Posted November 29, 2003 yes but enderZ (and to the general audience), not all prostitution is of that ilk. I agree with what you have said, but there are many levels and forms of prostitution. It is only the visible product that people associate the negatives with. Street walkers, drug addicts, strip clubs. That is just one aspect. In addition, many, many people do many things that are very unethical and morally 'sick' ande involve sex. Very few of these acts involve prostitution, but often they involve near strangers. The point? Don't use the convenient handle of prostitution to direct moral and ethical standard at. As for 'needing to pay for sex'. I really laugh when I hear this. "I am desperate, I need to pay". Nope. Sex is a multidimensional game, a concept to be exploited and explored. Some people do this by changing positions in bed, others do it by talking dirty, others explore deeper dimensions. Each person plays their own game and some people's game is a little more intense. Hookers just form one facet of this game... for some people that choose to include it. (in the meantime, there are some people so hard up for some action that they have to pay, fair enough). Is a swingers party where you pay to enter the house a form of prostitution? Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean11 0 Posted November 29, 2003 Share Posted November 29, 2003 > I think the overwhelming amount of females in the profession compared to males (and what percentage of those males are to service other males) points to there being something inherently wrong That's a very strange conclusion to jump to. A more reasonable conclusion would be that male and female sexuality is different. Link to post Share on other sites
indosnm 0 Posted November 29, 2003 Share Posted November 29, 2003 I know quiet a few girls who are madam butterflies. They are Indonesian and if they could work a "normal job" but they choose what they do. Most of them meet men and be the guys chick for a few days - or even weeks or months. All the guy does is look after them abit, like dinner here and there maybe some clothes etc. Nothing to extravagant. Of course there are the extreme chicks who root several times a night just for the cash too. I don't really see any diffference between the chicks that do it like I mentioned first above & chicks anywhere else in the world. I'm not saying that all chicks are hookers by the way and to quote what O11 said "The common misconception of people who pay for sex is that they 'have' to. This may be the case with some, but for many it isn't true at all. It's a choice, even for those who can't 'get it' any other way" I know many people that can get laid almost anytime for free , still they use hookers every now and then. Sometimes its the smae things without all the headstress! Link to post Share on other sites
damian 0 Posted November 29, 2003 Share Posted November 29, 2003 Quote: Originally posted by Indosnm: I know many people that can get laid almost anytime for free Have we met? Link to post Share on other sites
powwwers 0 Posted November 29, 2003 Share Posted November 29, 2003 ...don`t have to brush ya hair for them! and that`s gotta be a good thing, especially if ya`v got none. Link to post Share on other sites
indosnm 0 Posted November 29, 2003 Share Posted November 29, 2003 Quote: Originally posted by .db.: Quote: Originally posted by Indosnm: I know many people that can get laid almost anytime for free Have we met? Maybe we have mate! I just didn't wanto to name names! Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts