damian 0 Posted April 29, 2004 Share Posted April 29, 2004 F***K ME!!! Link to post Share on other sites
big-will 7 Posted April 29, 2004 Share Posted April 29, 2004 No thanks! Link to post Share on other sites
Yuki's Passion 1 Posted April 29, 2004 Share Posted April 29, 2004 Id hate to know how much you gotta pay with your salary!!! Link to post Share on other sites
damian 0 Posted April 29, 2004 Author Share Posted April 29, 2004 what happens if you dont pay? Link to post Share on other sites
LARD 0 Posted April 29, 2004 Share Posted April 29, 2004 What exactly is it?? (Not the amount, but the concept) Link to post Share on other sites
woywoy 0 Posted April 29, 2004 Share Posted April 29, 2004 How much money are we talking here? Link to post Share on other sites
Yuki's Passion 1 Posted April 29, 2004 Share Posted April 29, 2004 Why dont you not pay it and see what happens. If you get arrested youll set a precedent for all of us and well know to PAY it when leavin the country How much db??? Link to post Share on other sites
damian 0 Posted April 29, 2004 Author Share Posted April 29, 2004 It is about the same amount as the lump sum that the government owes me in the form of pension refund, which I plan to claim once outta here. Link to post Share on other sites
indosnm 0 Posted April 29, 2004 Share Posted April 29, 2004 don't pay it. It seems that you are not coming back so don't worry. Then once U R out try to claim the pension crap you are owed ( which is a different section) and you may get lucky. Even if you do come back it seems that it will take them forever to find you and then you only have to promise to pay it back in minimal amounts like a few K's a month. Link to post Share on other sites
Davo 1 Posted April 29, 2004 Share Posted April 29, 2004 Or go with the pension fund refund and just ignore the city tax letters. People have been snapped for the city tax but I think the stories of getting forced to hand over money at the airport are an urban myth. In my first stint here I never paid, now I do because I really live here and because the city pays us a housing allowance. You'll probably get away with it. Link to post Share on other sites
damian 0 Posted April 29, 2004 Author Share Posted April 29, 2004 Quote: Originally posted by Davo: I think the stories of getting forced to hand over money at the airport are an urban myth. bloody hope so! When I go through customs at Narita I am not even mentioning that I am leaving Japan. After I am gone I will send my alien card to the ward office. Link to post Share on other sites
sunrise 0 Posted April 29, 2004 Share Posted April 29, 2004 So - when are you leaving? Link to post Share on other sites
badmigraine 0 Posted April 29, 2004 Share Posted April 29, 2004 db, this is exactly what I did a couple years ago. I left Japan when the first or second of my ward tax payments had come due (bill in the mail), but I had not paid any of it. I surrendered my gaijin card at the airport customs counter (nobody there knows anything about any taxes, you don't have to worry about it), and had them be sure to stamp my visa as "cancelled" or "used". (I don't think this is required, but I wanted clear evidence that I was no longer residing in Japan.) Then when I got back to my own country I claimed the pension tax refund, giving my home address. About two weeks later I got a letter from the Ward Tax people urging me to pay. I heard nothing about the pension refund, but obviously the pension refund people (a Japanese NATIONAL tax) were sitting next to the Ward Tax people (a LOCAL tax) in the ward office bldg. and were sharing information...such as my home country mailing address. Yes, they really figured they'd got me. I did nothing, except maybe curse a bit, as my unpaid tax liability was about the same as pension refund I expected--same boat as you, mate. Every few weeks I got another letter from them asking, then requiring, then demanding my unpaid Ward Tax amount. The letters were clearly canned form letters, with some small revisions such as my name and address and the various amounts owed. Eventually I got one that was thoroughly nasty by Japanese standards (threatening that they would pursue legal remedies available to them, including attaching any Japan property I might have). I had heard from Japanese friends that the Ward has no legal way to collect unpaid ward taxes, even from Japanese people. There are shirkers here too. The Ward can keep hounding you, but the tax debt (I heard) goes away after 5 years. As for attaching my property in Japan, I had none to attach. I did nothing on the assumption that the national tax people (pension refund) are governed by separate laws and regulations than the local (ward) tax people, whose charter and rules vary by ward or city. I figured they might sit together in the same general area, such as at the Shibuya Tax Office, but in the end were following two different sets of rules. Their physical proximity might lead to some collaboration and sharing of information, such as the home country mailing address of foreign tax deadbeats, but in the end they would have to follow their own rules. Sort of like Agent Smith in the Matrix, if you follow my meaning. They are Programs. So I still I did nothing, and, in support of my "separation of powers" theory above, a few weeks later the pension refund came. The drinks were on me that night. I never heard from the Ward Tax people again after that. I'm sure they'll find me eventually, if I go back to Japan, and then I may have to work something out with them. But give yourself some hope. This CAN be done! Good luck and let us know how it comes out. PS - I know scads of J people whom I used to advise in the early 90s who skipped out on US taxes after a 2-3 year stint in that country. It is quite the popular tactic for expats. That doesn't make it "Right", but it shows it's popular. What makes it a little less "Wrong" is that you only get around 70% of your pension payments back, and even that is capped out around 1,000,000 yen. Many have paid in a lot more than that, and as a gaijin you don't get any benefit from it. "Taxation as theft". Link to post Share on other sites
BagOfCrisps 24 Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 Very interesting, the thieving gits. That pension thing is a scam Link to post Share on other sites
BagOfCrisps 24 Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 db - you coming to London to work in banking? We may well meet.... Link to post Share on other sites
sunrise 0 Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 Someone posted this today on the local Mac users group. (direct copy/paste, totally unedited): "A friend of mine was leaving the country in September, so he figured he wouldn't bother to pay his local tax bill. He was asked at the airport for proof that he had paid it, then forced to wait a day while they checked and squeezed it out of him. As it was a fixed ticket, the family lost half a million yen or so, in an attempt to save 50,000 yen, which would have been covered anyway by the tax rebate from national tax he was due." The person who posted this isn't someone who would make it up. I'd never heard of that happening before. Link to post Share on other sites
brit-gob 9 Posted May 1, 2004 Share Posted May 1, 2004 Yeah good luck dude, that sucks. Link to post Share on other sites
badmigraine 0 Posted May 1, 2004 Share Posted May 1, 2004 How would the average Japan leaver prove payment of ward tax? It's normally deducted from my salary, but they don't pass out pay stubs anymore. Pay history can be viewed on the company intranet, but not from the airport. Would the effect of this rule, if that's what it is, be that the airport people have to verify every case before letting people quit Japan? Link to post Share on other sites
fukdane 2 Posted May 2, 2004 Share Posted May 2, 2004 I'm sure youd be very unlucky to get caught on this. Do a runner! Link to post Share on other sites
damian 0 Posted May 7, 2004 Author Share Posted May 7, 2004 Due to an uncontrollable urge to leave Japan, which grew as the day got closer, I became very paranoid about anything messing with my ability to step on the plane. No hangovers, no rushing to the airport, no late check-in, no customs shit-head in a dirty suit asking me about my arrangements for my ward tax. Had I missed that flight, I would have had a break down. I became mega paranoid about the quirky ability for Japanese government 'people' to screw with everything and everything in the most illogical manner. I have had extensive experience in dealing with other Japanese Government authorities and they are nothing short of freaks that are to be avoided at all cost. Quite simply, I didn't tell them that I was leaving the country for good. They didn't notice my one way ticket either. Happy to be rid of it, I will now mail my alien rego card back to my old ward office and advise that I no longer reside in Nippon. An interesting last moment heart stopper came as I handed the air-mattress my boarding pass to go down the 'air bridge' and onto the plane: "Are you Mr db? Could you please show me your ticket" Oh, sweet jesus M-F-er, they had got me with 50 meters to go!! Nope, they had just forgotten to tear out the ticket when I checked in. 5 Seconds after this near heart attack it was "thank you Mr db, have a nice flight". I did. Link to post Share on other sites
badmigraine 0 Posted May 8, 2004 Share Posted May 8, 2004 Deebs, job well done! Let us know how the tax refund etc. comes out. This is useful stuff for the lot of us. Taxes...the government is making this a Personal thing. Link to post Share on other sites
Siren 0 Posted May 8, 2004 Share Posted May 8, 2004 Maybe the authorities are just glad that you left without a fuss and spent billion of yen ensuring that you were not obstructed. Link to post Share on other sites
indosnm 0 Posted May 8, 2004 Share Posted May 8, 2004 Quote: Originally posted by sunrise: Someone posted this today on the local Mac users group. (direct copy/paste, totally unedited): "A friend of mine was leaving the country in September, so he figured he wouldn't bother to pay his local tax bill. He was asked at the airport for proof that he had paid it, then forced to wait a day while they checked and squeezed it out of him. As it was a fixed ticket, the family lost half a million yen or so, in an attempt to save 50,000 yen, which would have been covered anyway by the tax rebate from national tax he was due." The person who posted this isn't someone who would make it up. I'd never heard of that happening before. I think this situation would only occur if you actually told them that you were leaving the country for good. Otherwise everytime we all left we would have to be able to prove that we were up to date on ward taxes. Link to post Share on other sites
badmigraine 0 Posted May 8, 2004 Share Posted May 8, 2004 What airport did this happen at? People leaving Japan (for good) before their visa expires can ask the immigration officer at the port of exit to stamp or mark their visa "cancelled" or "used". Why would anybody do this? Because one of the documents you submit to get your pension tax refund is a photocopy of every passport page including your cancelled visa. If the visa is still valid, then it appears to the tax office that you have NOT given up your Japanese residence and could still be living in Japan, or could come back again. That's why some people (me included) ask the immigration officer to cancel the visa upon final departure from Japan. I've done it twice. Both times, the guy looked puzzled but obligingly stamped or wrote something on the visa that did the trick for the pension refund people. Mailing back your gaijin card from your home country to indicate that you've left Japan for good might also work, especially if the tax office is located in the ward office. Then you could ask the tax officer to confirm with the foreign registration people that your gaijin card was returned. But I'm no expert on this so don't quote me. Link to post Share on other sites
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