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The two sites I've linked to have photo history's of the two places. Both the snowfall and the foilage indicate an early start to winter in these places (even compared to 2002, the benchmark in early snowfall). Of course, this could all change, esp. with the wild swings in weather systems we've experienced in recent years, but the northerly's are blowin', and I, for one, am getting the first tingles of excitement...

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