If you got trapped under a few meters of snow...

[IIIII 2]

...about how long would you have to live before someone hopefully saved you?

[Fattwins 0]

depends on many things but every minute your under your chances of living drop huge

[AET 0]

I'd be interested to know about this, obviously depends on lots of things - but what things? Interesting topic.

[stepchild 0]

hey AET, who are you? I'm a JET in gunma too...

[NoFakie 45]

With "a few meters" of snow on you, you may not be able to expand your ribcage and breathe at all.

[js 0]

Anecdotal evidence suggests:

 

'Survival statistics reveal that by only 30 minutes only 50% of avalanche victims survive; however, by 35 minutes only 1-in-3 buried victims survive.'

 

http://www.telemarktips.com/AvyAtkins.html

[mattlucas 0]

Mr.Wiggles speaks the truth. Metres of snow will almost crush you.

And that's if the trauma of the slide hasn't already finished you off.

[IIIII 2]

Good point. How about less than a few meters of snow then but still can't get out?

[mattlucas 0]

Well if you have no trauma and are only under a metre of snow.

You probably have about 30 minutes before you die. You would most likely lose consciousness before that though.

 

But you have to bring in other factors as well.

-How much air is in the snow. The wetter the snow the less air. The drier the snow the more air.

-Are you able to make a pocket of air around your face when the slide stops.

-How calm you remain.

[peaker 0]

The important thing to realise is that we are talking about minutes. You have a very short time to be rescued, you are absolutely dead if you get caught and your riding buddies dont have the gear or know how to rescue you quickly.

[dizzy 0]

one technique i learned in avi class is that if U get caught in a slide, try as best U can 2 cup Ur hands/forearms around Ur face. this way, when the slide stops and the snow hardens, U've tried 2 form an air bubble, however small it may be. never spoken 2 anyone who's been caught in a serious avalanche, but i'm sure one would have a million thoughts in their head, so it might B hard 2 cover Ur face.

[bcoasis 0]

For all intents and purposes you have 15 minutes at the 35 minute mark there is a 27% chance of a victim being alive. So much for stats, as far as I am concerned it's 15 minutes max and the real target time is 10 minutes or obviously less. The victim will almost certainly be unconcious after 6 minutes unless they did everything right such as the method dizzy mentioned and were lucky. A lot depends on if they hit anything on the way down such as trees or rocks. Most importantly whether or not they took a 'gob' full of snow as they come to rest; in which case 3-4 minutes is about all they have.

A patroller friend of mine in NZ got buried, the other patrollers got him out in 6 or 7 minutes -I can't remember the exact time; he had to be resuccitated.

[gamera 0]

When you get buried in new snow, even if you push yourself against the new snow by your arms, it doesn't work which means you can not get out of the snow. Suffocation is your destiny, then.

When I was a completely beginner, I got my face ( only face ) buried in new snow, I didn't mind because I didn't know what was happening.

I felt it hard to breath little by little because I could not get out of the new snow by pushing it by my arms. One of my friends came up to me to dig a hole for me to breath and I was pulled out by him.

Be careful

[dizzy 0]

re-reading the thread, toque mentioned the cupping-Ur-hands-over-Ur-face technique first.

 

i often wonder if there could B an oxygen mask or small tank of air could be invented that BC skiers/riders could use. like a camelback people fill with beverages, U know the ones with the hose. only the BC pack would B filled with oxygen. something to give a buried skier an extra X minutes. something to increase that 15-minute threshold, bcoasis. would look kinda funny skiing with a mask cupped over Ur nose and mouth though.

[bcoasis 0]

I look funny when I ski anyway dizzy, regardless of accessories! Actually, there is said device - it's called an Avalung. Started out being a pack and has now developed into a stripped down version of the essential components only so as to be easily worn within your jacket. Give about 15 mins of air but requires a WELL PRACTICED TECHNIQUE to use it effectively. They are not so expensive and I have seen a few 'gear freaks' with them in Japan. I say gear freaks because I know for a fact that the people that had them are incapable of effecting a beacon search so I can safely assume they wouldn't have had a clue how to use the Avalung in a 'real life' situation.

[mattlucas 0]

Outside the jacket isn't it?

[bcoasis 0]

I think it's inside but I fully stand to be corrected on that Toque. It's been quite a few years since I have had anything to do with them and they were making the transition to the stripped down model then.

[dizzy 0]

right on, oasis. this is a long read, but very intereseting. they even call themselves gear freaks. ha!

 

http://www.telemarktips.com/AvyAtkins.html

 

i guess it is U'r both right, toque and oasis, it seems that the Avalung is built into a vest:

 

has anyone had any experience with these things??? i wonder how useful they would be in a real avalance.

[bcoasis 0]

That's an old model one dizzy; the new one is stripped down and basically just a strap around unit something like 'vest gun holster'. As for how effective they are - very, if you get it right. By 'right' that means keeping your mouth clear and the mouth piece of the avalung clear of snow and just as the snow is starting to slow and settle, get the avalung into your mouth as you take one last deep breath.

[bcoasis 0]

He's a reasonably interesting article from practical experience which you might find interesting.

http://www.wildsnow.com/articles/avalung/avalung_review.html

[fukdane 2]

Interesting article that. You got one?

[bcoasis 0]

No, I don't use one - not because I don't think they are worthwhile though. I am very much in the school of thought that prevention is better than the cure and although we all make mistakes anything I do which is 'dodgey', I only do it with people I absolutely trust who are on the same 'program' and it's a very 'tight ship'.

I think it's very important to focus on the basic safety equipment and learn the function as a second nature as oppossed to 'more is better' with marginal comprehension.

[Teledude 0]

Good review of the Avalung II, never known anyone to wear one though, prevention is better in my opinion as well

http://www.wildsnow.com/articles/avalung/avalung_review.html

[Teledude 0]

oops, sorry double post, my bad, good article though

[dizzy 0]

thanks 4 the info and the knowledge, oasis. yeah, gear freaks get their moniker b/c they have so much equipment but they don't necessarily know how 2 use them. i was thinking of something like the oxygen tanks peeps and obasans use when climbing mt. fuji. ha ha, i guess that saying is true, whatever needs to be invented already has been invented.