Skiing on a glacier

[big-will 7]

Can you actually do it (I know very little about them so don't laugh)?

Where?

What's it like?

[Yuki's Passion 1]

All the summer camps in N. America, for example, at Mt. Baker, are glaciers I think.

 

Never done it, dunno. Have only skied in Japan.

[mattlucas 0]

My first time skiing real BC was on a glacier on Mount Baker. I was ripping down it in June after summiting and the snow was really hard and frozen and I was going way way way to fast so I tried to ditch some speed by going up a hill. At the top a huge gaping crevasse appeared and I hockey stopped because my life really depended on it. I just barely stopped. Would have been a grusome death.

 

But as for resort skiing on glaciers - they are usually pretty benign. You only ski on them on winter snow which is over top of the ice. Once the winter snow melts they usually close.

 

Mount Baker ski hill doesn't have any glaciated terrain

[grungy-gonads 54]

I realised that I don't actually know what a glacier is. Sad me. I will take a look on the web to ケット・ザ・ノレッジ

[grungy-gonads 54]

"A huge mass of ice slowly flowing over a land mass, formed from compacted snow in an area where snow accumulation exceeds melting and sublimation."

 

Thought it might be something like that. So... no powder then?

[mattlucas 0]

Well there can be lots of powder. It will just be over top of the ice.

Glaciers are usually north facing in the Northern Hemisphere and so stay out of the sun most of the day. Usually the best place to find good snow.

 

The ice at one time was once snow. It has been compacted so much that it has turned to very dense ice that has so much pressure on it that it flows like a very very very slow river. Almost like soft plastic

[DumbStick 13]

NZ

 

 

Glaciers make for some wild scenery. Any more ace glacier pics?

[tsondaboy 0]

there is also aparently a Glacier here in Japan.

http://www.snowjapan.com/e/features/as-i-ski-it-3.html

[SerreChe 2]

Interesting, I thought one of the very special and interesting specificities of Japan from a geological standpoint is that it has ZERO glacier (including up north in Hokkaido). Not sure why as there is so much snowfall here, should be able to accumulate. I do not think Gassan is a Glacier although it sounds like an interesting place.

[SerreChe 2]

Sweet Pic Dumstick!

 

I gotta make it to NZ one of these days.

 

I like this one:

 

 

Same place but Telemarker:

 

 

Both are taken in La Grave, France.

[damian 0]

I was constantly crossing, riding on or near a glacier on my recent trip to France. I had never seen one before and they amazed me: instantly bought back my semi-fascination that I had with geology/geography (I even took 1st year rocks at university). They are also dangerous things. We did stuff just like the Le Grave pics above and it can be extremely risky stuff.

 

Some of them are 400m deep (probably deeper) and move 200m a year. In the Alps it takes about 7 years for snow to become glacier ice. In the arctic it takes waaaaay longer as there is only pressure at play (no freeze/thaw). At least this is what my guide told me.

 

Classics moments of a glacier recalled (quotes from the guide):

 

“Ok, if you decide to fall crossing this snow bridge then fall to the right. The left might kill you”

 

“See those bog ice bocks? They are seracs and they fall all the time and kill people. Don't stop under them to ask stupid questions”

 

It wasn’t at all as hardcore as that sounds, but the first time on them was a scary experience. I went down a crevasse for practice rescue drills (ropes, ice screws, clever pulley systems). It was about 20m deep and super good fun.... Until I had my nuts crushed by my harness that I forgot to tighten before they started hauling me up the crevasse wall. That hurt. A lot.

 

Some ice that I met:

 

You wouldn't know it, that that (pic below) is the top of a glacier that is covered in snow, like in Plucky’s bowl in the AK thread. You can just see a crevasse opening. When we walked across it (on snow shoes) we did so tied together in case someone broke through the surface snow. This is a disadvantage of snow shoes: low surface contact area creates a greater chance of falling through. The golden rule for boarders is: never take your board off to walk on a glacier. Never, unless you are on shoes and tied to other people. You can see our track on the right. The glacier started off to the high right. Also, if you look really hard you can see the Matterhorn.

 

Picking the right path through the holes would be a disaster if the clouds closed in:

 

That rounded peak is the Mont Blanc summit with glaciers off in all directions. There are at least 2 lines down and you can ride down if the conditions are perfect and you are up to the risk. You can be sure that I didn't.

 

Mont Blanc again. More glaciers.

 

On the far side of this picture is a glacier that we rode down (entry from the couloirs at the very top of the frame, in the middle). The run down between the ice was one of the biggest buzz powder runs I have ever had. The crevasse that I went into is on the glacier in the centre of the shot. Enough from me. Glaciers are amazing and I kind of admire people who spend time on them, research them etc. They are like the biggest and slowest ‘living’ thing on the planet, yet they have such a massive impact that takes so long to be obvious.

[Plucky 0]

Awesome pics there DB! Thanks for posting those up! Man, I have to get to that part of the world one of these days.

 

I am absolutely amazed by glaciers. I love them. I seek them out when I can. I actually lived and worked on the Juneau Icefield (Icefield being a large collection of glaciers similar to a small ice sheet but located in temperate, mountainous regions) for 3 months back in '99. I was finishing up my masters degree in glacial geomorphology and doing my research there.

 

Personally, I've skied numerous glaciers and hope to ski a ton up here in Alaska. The Cascade Mountain Range in the Pacific Northwest in the US is a GREAT area for summer time glacier skiing. Timberline on Mount Hood is the only place with lift-served summer resort skiing on the Palmer Snowfield. It isn't actually a glacier (not deep enough so no internal plastic flow or even basal sliding) but it is a great time. Get there quick, however, because it will be gone in 10 or 15 years!

 

There are also other glaciers you can ski on Mt Hood, but they require quite a bit of hiking and climbing. I've skied from the top of Hood down to Timberline Lodge. Jumping the bergschrund was 'mess your pants' scary, but what a thrill. The Three Sisters area around Bend, Oregon is also and excellent are for glacier skiing as is Mt Jefferson. Mt Shasta has some decent glaciers to ski, but they are shrinking fast. Rainier is a popular place also (never done it myself though) as is Mt Adams in Washington State.

 

The coastal mountains in British Columbia would be an incredible area to explore for glaciers also. I've only skied on the Blackcomb Glacier on Blackcomb mountain at Whisttler, but the back country potential is amazing in the area. One of these days.......

 

I'm sure a lot of people picture glacier skiing as skiing purely on solid ice. I actually don't know of anyone that would ski below the firn line (the line where the snow stops and blue glacial ice begins). Almost all glacier skiing is going to take place in the zone of accumulation. The ablation zone is usually too much of a mess of crevasses, ceracs, moulons, melt water and other such lovely hazards. Even in the winter, these areas are very, very hazardous. Heck, I'd actually rather be on a glacier in the summer rather than the winter. Snow hides too many potential death traps in the winter. In the summer, crevasses are much more evident as firn is dense and heavy and surficial features on the glacier stick out better.

 

I could go on forever (and probably make even less sense ). Instead, here is a good site to check out about glaciers: http://nsidc.org/glaciers/

 

PS - no glaciers in Japan mainly because elevations are too low in most places (meaning it gets too warm too fast). Where elevations are higher (Japanese Alps), the latitude is just too far south and again temps are too warm.

 

As for glacier formation, temperate glaciers can form very rapidly (see Mt St Helens for example - only took 20 years) while in the arctic, the lack of snowfall limits quick moving and quick forming glaciers. The arctic, by definition, is a desert!

 

(boy, what I just wrote was a bunch of unconcentrated babble - I'm trying to do some work at the same time )

[mattlucas 0]

Plucky speaks the truth

 

There are no glaciers in Japan. We are just to far south and don't have the elevation. There are plenty of year round snowfields but that is all they are.

 

Japan was glaciated at one time though. I(d imagine it was during the last ice age roughly 10,000 years ago. And there is evidence of this in the North Alps. If you know your mountains you can go in and check out what a U-shaped valley or cirque looks like. The Karasawa Valley near Kamikochi is a great example of a U-shaped valley. You can even spot glacial scouring on the walls. And Kurobegoro south of Tateyama has an amazing Cirque on it's north side.

[fukdane 2]

34 excellent pictures.

 

(Are we going to have a feature story from you on here then?)

 

Wasn't there some skiing on a glacier in one of the bond pics? (Can't remember which one.)

[SerreChe 2]

Great pics 34.

Great Bable Plucky !

 

As I was reading down this thread, I started wondering whether Japan had glaciers at some stage and whether traces of old 'moraines' (glacial scurs I guess in english) or other stuff could be found... and what do you know, Toque answered it already!

 

This forum has some brain power behind it, let me tell you.

 

By the way, have you guys ever heard of glacial tsunamis?

 

I have, and I was amazed by this phenomenon. I'll try to post a link on this once I dig it out.

[SerreChe 2]

ah, here is one:

 

http://www.news24.com/News24/Technology/News/0,,2-13-1443_1661667,00.html

[Plucky 0]

 Quote:

Originally posted by SerreChe:
ah, here is one:

http://www.news24.com/News24/Technology/News/0,,2-13-1443_1661667,00.html

I've never heard this phenomenon refered to as a glacial tsunami before. The more common (and harder to spell and pronounce) name for this is 'Jokulhlaup.' You may also hear it called glacial outburst flooding. Do a search for the Missoula Floods - very interesting stuff there. I've seen and studied the damage these can cause and it's amazing. The Columbia River Gorge owes a lot of it's beauty to this flooding.

The premise of Jokulhlaups is actually pretty easy to describe and understand. As water builds behind an ice damn, eventually an isostatic balance is reached where the water and ice are exerting an equal amount of pressure on each other. When the water is exerting more pressure on the ice than the ice is on the water, the ice damn will 'float' up or become disengaged from the ground. Once the spiggot is turned on (water escaping under the ice damn), it is hard to shut off. The water erodes portions of the damn as it is rushing under it exacerbating the flow. Eventually, a balance will be reached again when enough water has been released and the process starts all over (if the damn is still in tact somewhat).

This can also happen with surficial glacial lakes. Usually there is a conduit system through crevasses or moulans where water can drain from a glaciers surface. If the conduit is plugged, a lake will form. When the water gets deep enough, it will float the plug, releasing the water. I saw this first hand on the Juneau Icefield at Lake Linda on the Lemon Glacier. It was an amazing site and kind of freaky to watch. Such power! We were doing lake level measurements for 2 days, watching the water rise and then eventually, POP! everything released. Luckily I wasn't on the bank when it happened!

Glaciers are amazing!

[mattlucas 0]

You really know your stuff Plucky

[SerreChe 2]

Really interesting Plucky. Nice to have a job/studies that take you to the great outdoors. I al sure your terminology for this is the correct one. I guess the word tsunami has started to get easily brandished after the tragic events of last boxing day.

 

By the way tsunami is a Japanese word, what does it mean?

[mattlucas 0]

Tidal Wave I think

 

Which is funny because the scientific community is trying to get away from using the english word Tidal Wave when talking about Tsunamis

[big-will 7]

The glaciers of the Antarctic Peninsula are in rapid retreat.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4471135.stm

[mattlucas 0]

Speaking of Antartica I have a really cool poster next to my toilet from National Geographic. It has all these cool facts about glaciers, wind, water currents...

Everytime somebody goes in to do their business I always ask them if they learned something in there.

 

Mostly the answer is "Matt! Your toilet is so gross!!"

[grungy-gonads 54]

Take a pic of the poster and put it up here. (Give it a wipe first though please)

[nzlegend 1]

 Quote:

Originally posted by Toque:
Tidal Wave I think

Which is funny because the scientific community is trying to get away from using the english word Tidal Wave when talking about Tsunamis

well actually its not that funny because true Tidal waves and Tsunamis are not related, they are 2 totally different things.

the laymans term Tidal wave is a inadequate misnomer that is slowly being eradicated from peoples lexicons. THe big Tsunami last year really raised peoples awareness of the terminology
The word Tsunami was adopted because the English language lacked a suitable descriptive word to describe an 'earthquake wave' or 'volcano wave' or 'landslide wave'. Why call it an "such and such" wave when you can call it a Tsunami. But for a long time they were called Tidal waves

Tsunamis have nothing at all to do with tides as terribly highlighted on Dec 26.

A true "tidal" wave is a tidal bore like the pororoca in the Amazon that guys can surf for kilometers and over 1/2 an hour

The story of the naming of Tsunami goes back to some fisherman who were out at sea when a Tsunami struck, they never noticed it being out in deep water but arrived back at their Port to find it devastated, so they called it a Habour/port (tsu) wave (nami).