False advertising in Hakuba?

[snosurf 0]

 Quote:

Originally posted by SnowJapan.Com#1:
Rag-Doll, yes there is a big gulf. Last season most of the media contacts asking us for info and help were asking about Niseko. This time round (up until now) they are often asking about Niseko + Hakuba + what else? I think you will find it changing, it will probably take a few seasons.

Having gained mainstream popularity as an international tourist destination, Niseko is now the 'whipping boy' of J ski resorts - it is often the butt of our jokes on these forums since being overrun by Australian entrepreneurs and mass tourists in the past few years.

The question is, would it be a positive or negative thing for Hakuba/Shiga Kogen/Nozawa to develop to the point that Niseko has now reached?
This question can be answered from a variety of different perspectives:
- local residents
- foreign tourists
- local tourists

Obviously, attitudes towards widespread exposure (which will inevitably lead to further development to meet demand) are mixed. Some like the idea of expansion, some hate it. Some will benefit, some will be disadvantaged. The bottom line is, effective tourism planning and administration which involves community participation and consultation is integral to ensuring successful growth and development.

[Fattwins 0]

well put a throw together isnt going to work at all.

[Yuki's Passion 1]

 Quote:

Originally posted by Fattwins:
well put a throw together isnt going to work at all.

yet, thats exactly how J-land operates - all they want is their money without giving it the slightest thought. Hopefully that will change.

[snosurf 0]

Definitely.... Prior preparation and planning prevents piss poor performance. No-body plans to fail, they fail to plan.

 

But still, as pointed out by Creekboy there appears to be no conscious effort by local governments to invest in tourism planners. I want to try to meet with some Hakuba local government officials while i'm there to discuss this with them. Maybe I can help as a tourism graduate. The framework is there to be used, it just has to be implemented asap.

 

Sometimes you have to spend money to make money, that is what has to be communicated to the revelvant authorities. Money aside, there are more important issues to be addressed starting with community harmony and environmental protection.

[Fattwins 0]

They wont listen to you so dont waste your breath. Thats not to say that the advice isnt encouraged it just wont be listened to.

 

Thus thee is a group of us trying to build one area up as a place to go to. if we plan this area well it should set an example.

[quattro 1]

The Japanese tourist is not going to save a lot of resorts. See other threads about resorts closing. The only thing that will is foreign tourist. Yet many of these resorts have done little to even try.

 

Niseko may be the one exception. Go to any of the web pages for the Hakuba area the only one I was able to find in English was 47. Considering the market for this area they should be at a minimum in Japanese, English and Chinese maybe Korean.

There should be an active tourism committee thatacctually tries to set some thing up with other countries to get tourism $$$.

[Rag-Doll 0]

Maybe they need some hard facts - I wonder what proportion of visitors to the swiss resorts are actually swiss or the french resorts are french etc. International visitors spend more and stay longer. They have to be the prime target for the resorts now.

 

From what limited marketing I've seen it does appear that the Japanese snow industry is trying but they're barely scratching the surface. They ought to be hooking up with JAL and ANA and Cathay and having package tours with direct flights into Nagano. Maybe it will take an Asian based (HK or PRC etc) travel company to bring the pieces together and start raising the profile around Asia.

[thursday 1]

They've already done that, quite well at Niseko. The likes of Ski Japan, Niseko Powder Connection etc. are not just trageting Australians any longer. They have even come to Hong Kong to display the wares.

 

As a consequence, my hotel rates have risen from 9000yen a night in 2004 to 11,000 last year to 16,500 and 21,000 pernight this time round. Mainly due to the scarcity of hotel rooms (not lodges).

[Fattwins 0]

PArt of the reason really is that JTB holds many of the seats into japan (niseko) at that time. They release them far too late to be able to fly in for a vacation. By going after the HK market they get around JTB a bit and can get more in. the demand is higher than the airplane seat supply.

 

In a way thats why i feel hakuba will take off. JTB cant hold the airlines hostage because there are too mnay companies flying into Tokyo and Nagoya really.

 

JTB is a big company that makes its own rules really. The companies are starting to filter down here now as well.

[quattro 1]

FT

 

That may be fine.

 

But getting info about a resort over here is very difficult. If I cant find anything on example Happo and i find plenty on Niseko. Guess I'll be heading to were i Can get the most info. Not picking on Happo it's a great place to ski.

The thing is it is hard to get info on many places over here and what you do fined is not always correct.

[NoFakie 45]

Nagano gets more Koreans than Hokkaido. The most popular resort for Koreans is Zao though.

 

Hakuba may not have a big web presence, but that's not everything. The vast majority of people who come to Hakuba never see this website, for example. Incidently, the largest group of tourists to Hakuba is not skiers/boarders any more. Its "ippan kanko". That sector has been growing steadily for several years. I don't suppose anyone on here cares about old timers on buses though.

 

Asia certainly has lots of potential, but NHK said the other week that mainland Chinese are not allowed to visit Japan as individuals. They have to come on package tours where the guides watch them like hawks. They get basically no free time. From what the program said, I don't think immigration would let them in skiing.

[thursday 1]

Believe it or not, there are Ski resorts in China. That's where the Chinese will be skiing first.

[quattro 1]

Mr wiggles

 

Was not picking on Hakuba but it's really more of a state of things through out Japan. It is very difficult to get any decent info. This site puts out a lot of good info. However as a overseas tourist coming to Japan to ski you basically have a few ways of getting info.

 

The web

Tourist agency

word of mouth.

 

The Japanese just dont do a good job as a whole

[Rag-Doll 0]

>Believe it or not, there are Ski resorts in China. That's where the Chinese will be skiing first.

 

Yeah, but aren't they crap compared to what is on offer in Japan or Korea for that matter? Even if they're not, a bit of clever marketing to give skiing trips in Japan a certain romantic/style cache and watch the aspirational classes climb over each other to be the first amongst their friends to make the trip.

 

 

Is that true about the visa thing for PRC Chinese? I can understand if that was the case a while ago but I know lots of PRC nationals who travel quite extensively.

[lin 0]

Just out of interest, in general who are the biggest overseas market coming to Japan generally? (Not just ski stuff). Anyone know?

[Markie 0]

I can't give a first hand account, but I'm with Rag-Doll on this one. I've heard they are crap. Small, poor facilities and very poor snow. The videos I've seen show the snow is very hard and a little brownish. A friend was commenting to me about how the lockers are located outdoors so you have to bring all your stuff there after gearing up in the changing rooms. Apparently that place was mainly designed for grass skiing in the summer.

[NoFakie 45]

Dunno Rag-Doll, but it was on Close-Up Gendai, one of the few programs on Japanese tv that's usually worth watching. They showed a couple of shitamachi minshuku in Tokyo that had many Westerner guests, showed some Westerners talking craft classes in Kyoto, and followed a tour party around from China. The tour staff were shown having to knock on every visitors room at night to check they were in their rooms. They said that that party only got one thirty minute period of free time the whole trip. The idea was clearly to prevent them from running away.

 

For people with "connections" in China, it may be different, but they'll still need a visa. There's no exemption like there is for Koreans or HK Chinese.

[SnowJapan#Andrew 6]

Here's some numbers for you. If this interests you I might be able to post some more another day when I'm less busy.

 

In the first 10 months of this year:

 

1 Korean (over 1.7 million)

2 Taiwan (over 1.1 million)

3 China (about 700,000)

4 US (about 700,000)

5 Hong Kong (over 290,000)

 

The numbers of tourists from Korea, China and Hong Kong are rising the fastest. 26% increase in the number of Chinese visiting Japan in the first 10 months of this year than last year (nearly 700,000 people).

 

Markets with numbers decreasing over the same period are Australia (-8%), Germany (-3%), UK (-3%), US (-1%).

 

In all months of this year so far the number of people visiting compared to the month from last year has increased - execpt for February when there was a slight decrease.

[thursday 1]

SJ1, they are not very big numbers. That's visitors for the whole of Japan in a year??

 

In comparison, HK gets 23 mil a year.

[Rag-Doll 0]

http://www.business-in-asia.com/skichina.html

 

Results from a very quick search for skiing in China. Checkout the comments on the right hand side.

[SnowJapan#Andrew 6]

Thats the whole of Japan in the first 10 months of this year.

[lin 0]

Interesting thanks what numbers are they SJ1 where did you get them?

[SnowJapan#Andrew 6]

I'm a member of a JNTO (Japan National Tourist Organization) committee and we had a meeting last week when this was being discussed. These are official JNTO numbers.

 

(Unfortunately they do not have any all-Japan ski/snowboard numbers, but I'm doing what I can to encourage the idea).

[NoFakie 45]

A lot of Asians supposedly came last year for the Expo in Nagoya, so its good to know that number are still going up. One wonders if they would rise even faster if the old buffers would stop going to Yasukuni.

 

If you go to one of them outlet shopping malls, they have announcements in Korean and Chinese, so maybe shopping is high on the agenda.

 

They're making a movie this winter in Hakuba with popular talento from J-dorama, so that might get more Asian punters in. By the sound of things, its a love story about mogullers. Not my cup of tea, but whatever works I suppose.

[SnowJapan#Andrew 6]

Interestingly, at the meeting last week one of the members mentioned just how many Chinese tourists actually visit Yasukuni. He said it was a surprising number.