Fattwins 0 Posted October 9, 2006 Author Share Posted October 9, 2006 its not Arai Im aiming at really although its on the list of what I would like to have access to. Im interested in some of what Siga kogen has to offer via sled really. Plus the areas I want to ski at near Arai arent inbounds there I just need to be able to use a sled to get near it. Out of the resort completely Link to post Share on other sites
damian 0 Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 Ok, I thought your primary objective was the unused terrain in the failed Arai resort area. A gentleman's hill walk in any mans language. For itineraries around Shiga with mile after mile of rolling terrain I suppose a sled is a good way to penetrate deep into it. Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean11 0 Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 Quote: Originally posted by Bushpig: damn snowmobiles! Yet another way we **** up the environment without really realizing what we are doing eh! I think 'we' would have to have our eyes really very tightly closed not to spot that one... Just the noise alone of that sort of machine has an extraordinarily wide impact. Link to post Share on other sites
soubriquet 0 Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 Snowmobiles use less fuel than displacement boats and make less noise than jet aircraft. It`s OK to take a boat to an island or fly to Europe it seems, but not to use a snowmobile. Tut tut. Link to post Share on other sites
damian 0 Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 Your noise argument doesn't hold water: the only time you hear a jet plane engine is at an airport or near one in a city. Both are inherently noisy places to begin with. People "flying to Europe" doesn't shatter the peace of my mountain wanderings. On the other hand, a noisy sled in the middle of the pristine silent back country is not nice. I've only bumped into a sled once, people don't use them here, no matter how far they have to travel into the back country. Off topic but related: I was part way up a 5 hour climb for a descent back down the same peak route and a friggin cessna with skis landed in the glacier below me. I have a picture but you can hardly see the thing, even on 10x zoom. That is the ultimate sled! Another time I was touring alone in spring, at about 3300m, late afternoon and a storm forming in the distance. I hear a really feint hum. Looking around, cant see any thing. Look up and this pure white almost totally silent glider cuts across the sky, referencing off a nearby peak he must have been at about 5500m, hard to gauge. Incredibly silent and peaceful. He was heading home ahead of the clouds. I pitched my tent on the the of a cliff and sat out the night in an awesome storm. Got some pictures of the glider as well. Link to post Share on other sites
soubriquet 0 Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 Boats leak fuel and pump their exhaust into the ocean, and use toxic chemicals to kill marine life (anti fouling). Jet aircraft use lots of fuel and are very noisy. This is all perfectly acceptable if it supports your lifestyle. It seems a snowmobile is unacceptable to the boating flying critics. Link to post Share on other sites
damian 0 Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 I am a critic of snowmobiles because they are bloody noisy in a peaceful place. But I can see that they do open up remote terrain where there are perhaps no 100% muscle powered people anyway. Beyond that you are right: no one can criticise a sled from a pollution perspective if they drive a car. Keep in mind that besides a short lived 4 year obsession with riding sports bikes at break neck speeds, I have never been any sort of petrol head, unlike you Soub who is clearly a rev-head bogan (like Indo, he's a cog as well) Link to post Share on other sites
soubriquet 0 Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 Yes, I'm a rev-head bogon. I ride my bike (helmetless) into town rather than use the car, because I'm a green rev-head. I love the sound of the wind. I hate the sound of machines and Jpop in the mountains. I don't use headphones, wear a helmet or goggles if possible because I prefer nature. I don't criticise other's life choices. My ex- has given me a gutfull of that. Link to post Share on other sites
damian 0 Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 From my above post.... The Cessna in the circle. Hardly worth posting it because its so hard to see. But is sure gives a sense of terrain scale. The glider as it passed over head Sorry fattwins, all off topic, well, kind of on topic using a Cessna to access the back country is taking it too far. They took off again after a few minutes so I think it was just a joy ride. Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean11 0 Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 Quote: Originally posted by soubriquet: Boats leak fuel and pump their exhaust into the ocean, and use toxic chemicals to kill marine life (anti fouling). Jet aircraft use lots of fuel and are very noisy. This is all perfectly acceptable if it supports your lifestyle. I don't own a boat or a jet aircraft, and try to avoid using motor transport whenever I can. I don't use motor transport where doing so can reasonably be expected to pollute the sound environment for people who have got there by their own power. People who use jet skis, motor sleds, and power scythes really should consider more carefully how far the noise and smell travels, and how wide an environment they pollute. Quote: It seems a snowmobile is unacceptable to the boating flying critics. Yes, that's right, it is. Even more unacceptable to those who don't do either frequently. Quote: I don't criticise other's life choices. My ex- has given me a gutfull of that. Yeah yeah, we all know how badly you screwed up there and how bitter you still are about it. Bringing up your failings in that regard somehow doesn't make the argument in favour of backcountry motoring any more pursuasive. Link to post Share on other sites
thursday 1 Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 so fats, you want to make an offer for the helicopter or not? Link to post Share on other sites
Fattwins 0 Posted October 10, 2006 Author Share Posted October 10, 2006 when i get 4.5 mill next payday maybe Link to post Share on other sites
NoFakie 45 Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 The question is whether screwing things up for other people and other species, especially in the name of leisure, is an acceptable "lifestyle" choice. The answer seems to depend on whose foot the boot is placed. >Beyond that you are right: no one can criticise a sled from a pollution perspective if they drive a car. That depends on the purpose of car use. Humans are no different to other species in using natural resources. Even people living 100% sustainably are using resources that could be available to other species. That in itself is not the problem. The problem is excessive use of natural resources, mainly by a mere fraction of the world's human population. It terms of bang (pleasure) for the environmental buck, snowmobiling may provide more than one person heating an uninsulated house or one person going to the shops in an excessively large car, but you've only got to read Farquah's post to see the impact on the areas where snowmobiling is carried out. Once species disappear, they don't come back. Its a lot to pay for some momentary thrill for one or two people. Link to post Share on other sites
ianbc 0 Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 i hope you all are as perfect as you preach. Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean11 0 Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 When I go into the mountains, I don't destroy any subnivean spaces, nor do I make sufficient noise to disturb any wildlife. What about you ianbc? Something about your post makes me think maybe you do... Link to post Share on other sites
Oyuki kigan 0 Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 snowmobiles are annoying. The last thing i wanna hear `besides my own hooting and hollering) is the engine of one of those things. Environmentally, except for the B/c hikers, any time skiing and riding takes up resources and natural habitat. Beyond hiking, what is the `greenest` way to ride? Are there any `green` resorts here? **** it, i will start another thread... Link to post Share on other sites
NoFakie 45 Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 ianbc Try reading my post again. It clearly says no-one is perfect. Try answering the snowmobiling specific problems and remember that unlike Canada, Japan has very little wilderness. That makes such areas more important. Ski resorts are enjoyed by millions and take up a limited amount of a hill. They are invariably near a road and in many cases a town that was there before the ski resort. Snowmobiles are ridden by individuals and have a potentially massive range. They can go deep into the wilderness away from human habitation. Both use resources, but in very different ways. Link to post Share on other sites
thursday 1 Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 Personally, I'd take a trail bike with ice spikes. Link to post Share on other sites
bushpig 0 Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 Quote: Originally posted by Ocean11: Quote: Originally posted by Bushpig: damn snowmobiles! Yet another way we **** up the environment without really realizing what we are doing eh! I think 'we' would have to have our eyes really very tightly closed not to spot that one... Just the noise alone of that sort of machine has an extraordinarily wide impact. Um, yes, thank you for pointing out the obvious to me O11. I would have completely missed that. I was actually posting that in reference to the compacting and erosion of the subnivean spaces which ****s up the living space of smaller species. Easy enough to understand but probably not realized by most people until pointed out. Link to post Share on other sites
soubriquet 0 Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 Fattwins' question has brought out the Environmental Police. If you disapprove of snow sports, why don't you go elsewhere? Link to post Share on other sites
damian 0 Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 And the lord said go thee faithful lambs together unto brothels and convert those dirty whores into good people. Link to post Share on other sites
Fattwins 0 Posted October 11, 2006 Author Share Posted October 11, 2006 in can i have links to stuff that you think is good and why. im not thinking this season but its something in the future that might be good to have. Link to post Share on other sites
bushpig 0 Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 Quote: Originally posted by soubriquet: Fattwins' question has brought out the Environmental Police. If you disapprove of snow sports, why don't you go elsewhere? exclude me from that soub. I just said it was sad that yet another (seemingly harmless, comparatively) human activity has quite an impact on certain habitats. I wasn't telling anyone to stop. Link to post Share on other sites
Fattwins 0 Posted October 11, 2006 Author Share Posted October 11, 2006 dont worry i just ignore the comments Im more environmentally friendly than most. I ride my bike to work, I used to only ride the trains, I never kill almost anything. I think I create as much waste in 5 to 6 years compard to the average American. I dont have to nor want ot defend myself over something that I just looking into. Link to post Share on other sites
soubriquet 0 Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 No worries Bushpig. I'm a bit stressed at the moment, I'm not good at handling it, and that can make me a little sour. Sorry. Link to post Share on other sites
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