niseko property...

[wave251 0]

so, has anyone actually purchased a property up there for investment / personal use? anyone thinking about it?

 

curious what folks think given all the discussion on how the resort is changing / influx of foreigners... (me being one of them)

 

cheers

[Yuki's Passion 1]

not personally...and not thinking bout it. but this site might have some more info:

(hope its ok to post)

[alferg 0]

a friend of a friend bought land in niseko, fairly central, in 2004 - its worth triple now apparently...

 

out of curiousity, i've taken a peek at the (numerous) real estate pages, & the prices are huge - in fact they are quite similar to sydney real estate prices.

[TJ OZ 0]

The horse has bolted in Niseko. Be careful. Have a look around and you will understand.

[TJ OZ 0]

Hey CB did you censor your own post? It looks like self moderation on the edit note.

[Fattwins 0]

are you saying that the hanazono guys are getting out?

[sava 0]

they were getting out before they even got in!

[TJ OZ 0]

No. I am talking about capital gain on the property. Buy in at a low price and sell at a high price to Aussies predominately who are comparing prices to our snowfields not to other areas within Japan. I am not saying don't buy up there. I would never say that, I am not an expert(disclaimer). Do your research is what I am saying. Once word gets out and people here get there niseko blinkers off they will start looking around at other areas and discover that mountain real estate in Japan is quite reasonably priced.

[snowcat 0]

I wish I could buy something in Furano, and drive thru the lavender fields, maybe set up a nice little cozy place with a fireplace and a fiddler playing nice tune.

[sava 0]

and hot chocolate

don't forget the hot chocolate

[Fattwins 0]

i just thought you meant something different tj. with the airlines changing stuff around it looked like someone might have been pulling out, my bad.

[Rag-Doll 0]

Last year some friends and I all chipped in and bought a unit together in Niseko. It is a very long story but we had been talking about buying into the whole Niseko thing for a couple of years and watching the prices go up and up. Every time we got together for beers we would have the same conversation - the more beer, the more enthusiastic we got but the problem was that it usually dissipated by the time the hangover kicked in. No one really wanted to sink a lot of cash into the place partly for the reasons Niseko is copping flak now. It took us a long time to get our act together because we wanted to fund the purchase by borrowing from a bank in Japan at yen rates. It took more than a year to get that sorted before we could finally settle, but we did it in the end. The time to buy has well and truly gone and we were more than a bit late ourselves. Someof the prices up there are insane. For those who may be interested, the return on equity this year, with a couple of weeks being used by the owners and no Dec rental to speak of, was comparable to the commercial letting rates for property in Aust. The return is not setting the world on fire, but it isn’t losing money either – not yet anyway! Going shares and borrowing has meant that we could join the party without getting too involved. We might make some money or we might not. In any event its fun having a holiday house in the snow and Niseko is as good a place as any. In terms of access for international visitors, Niseko is actually easier to get to than places like Nozawa or Hakuba. This was a factor for us as most of us now live outside Japan.

 

I’m not sure how the prices now compare to other mountains in Japan. The other day I was looking at some property for sale in Hakuba and the prices didn’t seem all that cheap for what was on offer. But that was only a quick look and hardly a good indicator.

[Fattwins 0]

hmmm if you are in country there are different prices than out of country.

[Rag-Doll 0]

I'm sure you're right there FT. It was an English language website and I'm sure they were just putting prices out there to see if any gaijin was silly enough to bite.

[TJ OZ 0]

 Quote:

Originally posted by Rag-Doll:
In terms of access for international visitors, Niseko is actually easier to get to than places like Nozawa or Hakuba. This was a factor for us as most of us now live outside Japan.

Not sure weather that is the case. Maybe one hour difference if you include waiting for tranfers.
Congrats on buying a place. Did you need someone living in Japan to get the loan. Japans interests rates are unbelievable for us Australians.

[misorano 1]

Problem with Hakuba is that there are not many properties that are attractive to foreigners. There are bugger all condos (unless you count the eyesore on the road up to Happo from the station). Also to buy something 2nd hand and then use it as an investment is difficult as you need to get approval from the fire dept and town office. There are very few properties under 15 years old, and those older than that do not meet saftey standards.

On the good side Land is cheap. The blocks in our area are only about 3 mill yen for about 500sq.m

[Rag-Doll 0]

We actually got the loan using an Aust company as the borrower. We borrowed the money through the Tokyo branch of the National Aust Bank. It was a pretty painful process mainly because we wanted to use a hopelessly complicated structure but the bank guys were pretty good and stuck it out. We originally had 5 of us living inJapan but when it came time to borrow the money we were down to 2 - it caused the bank some grief but they let it go. We had to pay above the standard yen rate but it was still a lot better than borrowing against assets in Aust.

 

For access, you must have the trip down pat. I reckon I would allow at least 5 maybe 6 hours to negotiate Narita, the NEX, Tokyo station, the shink to Nagano, the local bus/train and sometimes the taxi needed to get to Hakuba, Nozawa or Arai – maybe there are places that are closer Shiga(?).

 

Chitose and the bus to Hirafu don’t seem to take that long. Maybe because it is a less complicated trip it just seems that way.

 

Edit - actually, I just remembered that going through customs at Chitose took close to an hour when we were there in March. Maybe the difference isn't all that great after all.

[Rag-Doll 0]

Hakuba town is also a little spread out which can be a bit of a pain for visitors without a car.

 

I'd love to get a place in Nozawa. Something near that moving footpath thingy. Everything at hand with a great mix of alpine village and traditional Japan feel to it.

[misorano 1]

Rag-Doll,

With the Niseko place, what conditions do you have on using it yourself (can you go whenever you want?)?

[Rag-Doll 0]

It really depends on whether we want the unit to make any money. We could use it all season if we wanted to, but we use the rent to pay the loan. We don't really have any restrictions amongst ourselves. We just nominate our booking dates and then hand the place over to the manager for bookings.

 

If it is not booked, it can be used by anyone. But we all have day jobs so it's not as if we're in a position to be shooting up there on a whim Friday afternoon. Although the guys in TY could probably do that.

[brumm 0]

I agree like any investment you need to do your homework. Particularly in Japan. I have a couple of properties in Niseko purchased in the past 2 years. We looked at how the "western style" new apartments were being marketed to cashed up Aussie/NZ investors and decided we wanted to buy a freestanding lodge/large house of which there is ( still ) demand for.

You can buy now for the same price as one of these new apartments which will generate you a greater return than a 2-3br apartment and give you something to work with longer term.

More importantly to me and a number of other Aussie investors I know, the village retains its unique character which unfortunately the new apartment blocks being sold now do nothing to enhance!

 

Also Hirafu has advantages over other resorts in the region, existing infrastructure. Having spent considerable time there the past 2 seasons I don't think you can say the influx of Aussies has done irreparable damage, Japanese ski days to Niseko were up considerably this season than last and with the Japanese economy coming out of a 15+yr recession this is only going to increase. Its very expensive in Japan to build new infrastructure so Hirafu is taking advantage of the massive investment in the late 1980's which would be beyond any ROI today and thats why the Hanazono development is a risk from many onlookers perspective.

As to the influx of Aussies and have they spoiled it, The 10,000 or so Aussies represent a small number for the total overall visits, its just that they're more visible than some of us would like them to be at times.