Out of bound issues at Arai

[Blair 0]

Hello

 

I've spoken with Snow Japan about the following & have received permission to go ahead.

 

I've been very quiet over the past several months & this has been in part because the season has been exceptionally busy. While I was not intending to post again until late March/early April, there have been some unfortunate incidents at the resort I want to tell people about.

 

Arai was a difficult mountain to bring to the public from a safety point of view, but in the end it became possible given that strict boundaries were established between safe areas and dangerous ones. Such boundaries are set every morning prior to the public hitting the slopes.

 

In past white seasons visitors have died by going out of bounds & the resort has gone to great lengths to avoid such being repeated.

 

This white season, despite proactive measures taken by patrol, some visitors still are going out of bounds.

 

While those going out of bounds (or attempting to go out of bounds) consist of both Japanese and Foreigners, a difference has clearly emerged concerning the two respective groups. When the patrol comes across a group of Japanese attempting to go out of bounds & tells them to stop, usually such a group does. Unfortunately, under the same circumstances with a group of foreign skiers or boarders, the patrols direct order to stop in some cases has been intentionally ignored & even mocked.

 

In my biased opinion Arai has gone to great lengths to accommodate foreigners on the slopes,

with the only condition being to abide by the rules & boundaries clearly set out by the park. Presently the behaviour of only a few described above jeopardizes future pleasure on the slopes for all. Further, all the positive things

accomplished to date are being dulled by this, which in my mind is such a waste.

 

I wrote about this subject several years ago & interviewed the Arai patrol. This can be read further about here:

 

http://www.snowjapan.com/e/features/setting-journals-3.html

 

Management have asked me to post the message found at the bottom of this post on the English site for the resort. The resort will also be handing out a similar bilingual notice to everyone that purchases a lift ticket for the remainder of the season.

 

I'll finish by saying that I've been a full-time employee at this resort for almost 7 years now, & because of it other foreigners have been able to obtain work here.

 

The international community has also responded positively to foreigners working at the resort, but to be clear when a few foreign guests intentionally go out of bounds, potentially everybody loses.

 

It is unfortunate that such a situation has come up. Please help me to lessen the heat I'm feeling presently by respecting the rules of the park when you visit.

 

=================================================

 

 

BEWARE!

 

AT ARAI MOUNTAIN & SPA,

ENTERING AREAS OUTSIDE ROPES & NETS IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED.

 

You are entering this Park subject to the rules and conditions set out by Arai Mountain & Spa.

 

Going out of bounds risks the life of others who may follow your tracks. Violators also force the closure of courses & are subject to ticket confiscation/expulsion from the Park. Given such, should you ignore instructions of Park Officials & decide to endanger the lives of others, legal action may be taken against you.

 

Please ensure the safety of everyone by remaining within the clearly set boundaries.

 

Arai Resort Management Inc.

[Fattwins 0]

Fair enough Blair. the cliff area under the gondie is pretty dangerous. the conditionals again when opened are opened but when they are closed they are closed. I doubt writing here will due much to stop it though as most people that would go out of bounds and fight are un-prepared for it anyways.

[SKI 15]

I'm sorry to hear about the problems, I'm sure it is only a few.

 

 Quote:

has been intentionally ignored & even mocked

[dyna8800 3]

Well, the foreigners going out of bounds at Arai sure don't read this forum. In several past threads, it is well documented and understood that Arai does not condone backcountry out of bounds skiing and last year you posted an English map showing areas with actual reasons why they cannot be entered.

[dyna8800 3]

 Quote:

Originally posted by Blair:
In my biased opinion Arai has gone to great lengths to accommodate foreigners on the slopes,
with the only condition being to abide by the rules & boundaries clearly set out by the park. Presently the behaviour of only a few described above jeopardizes future pleasure on the slopes for all. Further, all the positive things
accomplished to date are being dulled by this, which in my mind is such a waste.

(SNIP)

I'll finish by saying that I've been a full-time employee at this resort for almost 7 years now, & because of it other foreigners have been able to obtain work here.

The international community has also responded positively to foreigners working at the resort, but to be clear when a few foreign guests intentionally go out of bounds, potentially everybody loses.

It is unfortunate that such a situation has come up. Please help me to lessen the heat I'm feeling presently by respecting the rules of the park when you visit.

Listen, Blair, I learned a long time ago that you can't apologize for the entire gaijin race.

[mattlucas 0]

 Quote:

Originally posted by dyna8800:
Well, the foreigners going out of bounds at Arai sure don't read this forum.

Can you speak for the 15 guests that looked at this topic in the last 10 minutes?
Or the 67 guests that are lurking as well

[Fattwins 0]

how do you check that

[uggggllllyyyy 0]

OK, this is not too start a riot but I have a question for the peeps here.

 

Its not unheard of for foreigners to get a bad press here in nihon and for some people to use that as stick to beat others with or for other reasons. Just read/listen to anything said by the Tokyo Mayor over the years. i.e. one crime committed by a foreigner means every crime committed is by foreigners.

 

So.. in this thread it says that foreigners are being abusive and ignoring the Patrol. As far as I am concerned if you do this/or take the pish by changing jackets and doing it again then you deserve all you get. Clip round ear etc, whatever it takes.

 

However, how many occasions has this actually happened. So what I wanna ask is to anyone who actually has Patrol experience in Japan of how many times the foreigners have been abusive/ignored the Patrol whistles etc compared with how many times Japanese groups have. And how many times has the "abusive" foreigner been exaggerated as if ishihara himself was talking. I not saying that it doesn't happen, I just wanna know on what sort of scale.

 

SO any stats would be useful and I suppose stats for Niseko would be seperated.

[Ocean11 0]

How many of these rope ducking, abusive foreigners have had the legal option taken against them?

[brit-gob 9]

 Quote:

Listen, Blair, I learned a long time ago that you can't apologize for the entire gaijin race.

Obviously.
But in reality many times you are put in a situation where you are expected to.

ugggllly - why don't you just believe the man? I'm sure they would rather this situation (having to post things like this) not be happening, it's not as if it is made up.

[merryJim 1]

 Quote:

how do you check that

Fattwins you can click on the Recent Visitors for that

http://www.snowjapanforums.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=pntf;f=1

[HeatherLocklearRocks 1]

 Quote:

Well, the foreigners going out of bounds at Arai sure don't read this forum.

Strange comment. How on earth do you know?

 Quote:

take the pish by changing jackets and doing it again

Where's that coming from?

I can imagine the - more than likely unfair - hassle you are getting Blair. (But not much you can do about it being unfair hey?)

[uggggllllyyyy 0]

 Quote:

take the pish by changing jackets and doing it again

Where's that coming from?

Basically it comes from stories on this site about foreigners taking the pish out of patrol guys and their subsquent (over?) reactions.

[damian 0]

I view the rules at Arai (and similar resorts) with the same sneer as I do the law in the UK banning electrical outlets in private bathrooms.

 

But, rules are rules. I understand why they are broken and wont comment on that. But I will say that if they are broken then the offenders should be appropriately punished, particularly arrogant repeat offenders. If someone wanted to play in my house then they would play to my rules. It is as simple as that.

 

Blair, you should increase the penalty: confiscate their equipment until the end of the day. Make them walk back down the piste looking like idiots. or as Ocean mentions, investigate the legal options. As much as I would be personally tempted to break rules like Arai's, I have greater conviction regarding being responsible for the outcome of my decision. Arai has every right to set their own rules as they see fit and should enforce their rules more forcefully. Word would soon get around that you don't visit the house of Arai and pee on their kitchen floor. It would take the utterly un-free situation in Japan further away from where I would like it to be, but it would also make rule breakers re-think their decision to choose the resort called Arai for a day of rule breaking. Screw them, let them go somewhere else (unless from a cashflow perspective you need every lift ticket buying cutomer you can get).

 

I genuinely think you have the right to up the ante. Hell, I openly admit here and now that on my next trip to Japan I will arrive with the clear intention of visiting resorts and breaking the rules in an effort to enjoy the terrain and snow that is on the other side of those rules. If Arai had a justifiably tough policy on rule breakers than I would never consider going there as the consequences are too great... and hence the objective has been achieved.

 

Good luck Blair! And remember: your house, your rules.

 

(ps - I continue to recommend Arai to UK/European families that I happen across from time to time who express an interest in a ski holiday in Japan 'for something different')

[Fattwins 0]

Blair a little more info on what rules they broke would also help.

 

Stuff like cutting into terrain during avalanche checks in Canada will get you thrown into Jail.

 

Sking Closed areas that slide onto courses will bring the police out in the US.

[damian 0]

I think in Italy you get arrested if you create an av that hits a piste (or even 'in bounds'). Likewise in Suisse I also heard that the fine is huge for the same offence. Also, in Suisse if something is closed then nobody goes on it. Closed means closed and it goes untracked.

 

In France there are no rules, just a sign at each patrol hut telling you your actions are at your own peril. Plus there is a menu which advises how much various rescues will cost (it ranges from €50 up to about €700)

[Hoverpuma 0]

Hey, just felt like throwing out a potentially stupid thought (n00b alert!)...

 

I admit that I've not yet had a chance to visit Arai, so I don't know the terrain... but has the management considered combining a carrot with the (apparently justified) big stick? If the BC is worth it there, how about a paid guiding service? Seems like there's at least a chance they could use that as a way to make sure people going out there had proper gear, training, etc... and maybe take in a bit of extra cash at the same time. ISTR some other areas in Japan (Appi Kogen perhaps?) might have such a service, but I have no idea whether it works well at filtering morons.

 

My previous stomping ground was New England, where lots of people (myself included) really love hitting the trees to get away from the ice sheets. The patrol at places like Cannon Mt (NH) and Jay Peak (VT) seemed to take an "engagement" approach to people going OOB -- the patrol knew the common BC runs, and would often give people headed that way a friendly "chat" while sizing them up. (Admittedly, the OOB in those areas is largely public land, which means it's harder to legally keep people out.)

 

(And yes, it's their area, they're fully within their rights to set the rules and enforce them, particularly if people are being morons. If someone really wants BC on their own terms, let them earn their turns...)

[damian 0]

This interview at pistehors.com is excellent and although not a solution to the problems at Arai, it is right on the topic. Obviously their approach is not appropriate in Japan at this stage, but assessment and appreciation of alternate business plans is essential in knowing your game. The interview is with the piste director at Tignes in France. He has some absolute classic quotes in there.

 

Has Arai engaged other resorts internationally for their advice on off-piste restrictions and management thereof?

 

Please take the time to read this industry interview.

 

http://pistehors.com/comments/557_0_1_0_C/

[Ocean11 0]

Yes, read the article Blair. You definitely need to lay on some PisteHors as part of the Arai family-oriented service.

[dyna8800 3]

One interesting (and potentially hypocritical) point is that backcountry riding/skiing seems to be actually sanctioned by the management of Arai...when you are guided by the Arai Guide Center.

 

Take a look at the Arai Mountain Camp held in March (2 weekend dates).

 

What's the official policy/comment on that?

[69 5]

Seems perfectly reasonable to me and not in the least bit hypocritical. That would surely be something that they organise and so take some sort of responsibility for.

[Fattwins 0]

where is the link to that?

 

ARAI has the conditionals which cover pretty much the whole peak area of arai. If the patrol open it you can hike in and go. I think that this area and the cliff area are arais main problems. the other one would be in between the 2 mid mountain steep courses. Going BC in Japan and not re -entering the resort is legal and cant be stopped. I dont think he is talking about this because those people who would do that understand the risks.

[Hoverpuma 0]

Ah, so they do have a guiding service. My lack of local knowledge is made manifest for all to see.

 

Why is that hypocritical? The problem is that lift-served areas act as an enabler, making it really easy for people who don't know what they're doing to get in over their heads, often without even realizing what's going on. In some areas (dunno about the laws in Japan, but...) the management can be held responsible for enabling those people. Furthermore, people who don't know what they're doing can endanger *others*, not just themselves -- skier-triggered avy and hazard to rescuers are two obvious scenarios that come to mind. (Mountain rescue is *far* more dangerous than the equivalent recreational activity in the same conditions.)

 

So, in order for the management to sanction BC using their area as a launch-off point, they want to make sure they retain some control over the situation, to protect themselves and allow themselves to stay in operation and keep providing lift services.

 

That's the price you pay for the convenience of using a lift. Yes, it does impact those people who really know what they're doing, and it might be nice of the resort to offer some accomodation... but they're certainly not under any obligation to do so.

[dyna8800 3]

 Quote:

Originally posted by Fattwins:
where is the link to that?

Arai Japanese Home Page

Link is on the lower right hand side, dated 2006 Feb 2 with title 2006 ARAI MOUNTAIN CAMP.

[Fattwins 0]

thanks I checked it out.