2pints-mate 0 Posted October 8, 2002 Share Posted October 8, 2002 That is the impression I get reading some posts on here. I was hoping this topic could be gathered here. And very entertaining this forum is, I might add...probably one of the best forums that I have seen actually. Well done all. Discuss please (so we nonjapandudes can learn!) Link to post Share on other sites
BagOfCrisps 24 Posted October 8, 2002 Share Posted October 8, 2002 Good topic, mate. 2 pints please. Link to post Share on other sites
2pints-mate 0 Posted October 8, 2002 Author Share Posted October 8, 2002 Cheers mate, let them get on with it. Vines tonight? Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean11 0 Posted October 8, 2002 Share Posted October 8, 2002 It's always good when the London contingent of Japanologists come online. I dunno whether Japanese resorts have got a clue or not. I think they don't, given my own feelings on the matter, and having listened to friends who have been in N. American and Europe. But do you go to European resorts? And do you often think "If these people hadn't been blessed with a big snowy mountain to profit from, they wouldn't otherwise have two pennies to rub together"? Link to post Share on other sites
TeleSkier 0 Posted October 9, 2002 Share Posted October 9, 2002 I've got to say the biggest problem is soooo many lifts and soooo few trails. Whatever happened to about 5 lifts and 30 trails. Now we have 20 lifts and about 25 trails at places over here. I have to question some places - for example Arai up in Nigata. They have this great mountain with tons of snow and great terrain but only have 8 trails. They could open the place totally up and it would absolutely rock. It reminds me of Alpine Meadows or a mini Squaw Valley in Tahoe. But they have tons of orange poles with rope everywhere. I wonder if the owners of Arai have ever skied out of Japan. If they have I'm sure they would see they are way underutilizing their terrain. It pains me to see all of the powder there roped off. Also another place I have driven by on the Chuo Expressway - Fujimi Panorama near Lake Suwa. Looks like about 700m of vertical there with one gondola to the top. But also looks like they have one trail from the top. I can't seem to fathom why they would only cut one trail from the top after they put this multi-million dollar lift in. Puzzles me to say the least. On the good side - the snow is fantastic here and way plentiful. Gotta like that.... Link to post Share on other sites
Fattwins 0 Posted October 9, 2002 Share Posted October 9, 2002 Ok I agree about some resorts being bckwards about somethings, but as for Arai and some other places you have to take some things into account. Number one amount of snowfall and different temps make the area a little dangerous at times. I think they do a good job opening up what they have. If you look at Arai in an objective way you will see a lot of terrain traps where if it does go your fu...ked. Plus under the gondola ther is one mother of a cliff where people have died. Also the park departments here dictate some what how much terrain you can use. When I worked at Kawaba in Gumma 8 years ago it was about 30 to 40 of the mountain and the Gumma park guys would come and check. Sometimes we take for granted what we could ski back home and think that it applies here. Now wait think, Im from toronto but spent winters bumming the interior mountains of British Columbia. The good thing about the interior is the relitivily same weather all winter. Sking Out of bouns is done daily and we pack down the snow making a more stable snow pack. Here that just does not happen outside of say Niseko ( but relitivily same weather patterns there all winter). I forgot to ask they dont blast here and they usally use gas bombs in fixed places so the control work is harder. Relax though everyone complains about the lack of trails open with powder but in Japan the compition for powder is still not that bad. compard with Canada going up the lift at the begining of the day knowing everyone was in a race to make tracks here you can still find stashes weeks after storms. Peace love abd Powder. Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean11 0 Posted October 9, 2002 Share Posted October 9, 2002 I don't know whether this has anything to do with the limited number of runs at Panorama, but friends who have been there say it doesn't get much snow, and the combination of wind and sun on that hill makes for very icy conditions. Perhaps it's just not that good a place for an extensive resort (but enough to get the people from Tokyo who don't want to flog up to Hakuba). There were some nice safe looking powder bowls at Cortina well roped off and under the beady eyes of the patrol. Link to post Share on other sites
Fattwins 0 Posted October 9, 2002 Share Posted October 9, 2002 Yes Ocean you are right about that but 2 years ago in simalr conditions I set off a few small slides. The slides slowed and became self building snowballs one went onto the main course and was a good 25 kilos. Iwas lucky enough to get it stopped by bodychecking no more than 5 times. At Cortina when I want to ski the trees I bring my beacon and ski with my gear. As for the patrol the previous year they allowed tree sking but for some reason they killed it. They are tring to market themselves as a family resort. Last year I sae the after effects of a huge avalanche in the trees at Norikura. The power of the slide went to ground for 500meters i ripped trees from the ground and the debris was like ice. My advice ski with a friend and bring the gear when you are somewhere patrol arent. Link to post Share on other sites
Fattwins 0 Posted October 9, 2002 Share Posted October 9, 2002 Yes Ocean you are right about that but 2 years ago in simalr conditions I set off a few small slides. The slides slowed and became self building snowballs one went onto the main course and was a good 25 kilos. Iwas lucky enough to get it stopped by bodychecking no more than 5 times. At Cortina when I want to ski the trees I bring my beacon and ski with my gear. As for the patrol the previous year they allowed tree sking but for some reason they killed it. They are tring to market themselves as a family resort. Last year I sae the after effects of a huge avalanche in the trees at Norikura. The power of the slide went to ground for 500meters i ripped trees from the ground and the debris was like ice. My advice ski with a friend and bring the gear when you are somewhere patrol arent. Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean11 0 Posted October 9, 2002 Share Posted October 9, 2002 Actually at Cortina, we watched a whole bunch of patrol trying to trigger an avalanche in a dodgy-looking gully with avalanche barriers. It certainly looked prime territory, but they couldn't get anything started. So we concluded that it was probably OK to ride some of the rounder hills, and it turned out to be fine, although there was some minor shifting of little slabs. I'd love to have seen you doing your thing with The Snowball That Wouldn't Stop. Link to post Share on other sites
danz 0 Posted October 9, 2002 Share Posted October 9, 2002 yes...cortina is a shame... they have some of the best potential glade skiing I have seen in japan...and too many patrol! anyway...looks like old topics resurfacing again...so my points 1) Piss Poor mountain maintanance (i.e. no avalanche control...) 2) Poor layouts --> too many lifts that serve no vertical 3) too few trails... danz Link to post Share on other sites
akibun 0 Posted October 9, 2002 Share Posted October 9, 2002 I don't think we know their busineess and so difficult to have full idea. Don;t resort need much patrol for safely? Link to post Share on other sites
miteyak 0 Posted October 9, 2002 Share Posted October 9, 2002 Keeping large areas open in Japan must be a nightmare. The shear volume of snow that falls here compared to many European and North American resorts must change the approach. As for hacking into more nature for ski resorts... good onya park controllers! Want resorts and lots of terrain, Japan has so many so close together. Lift accessed backcountry, no-one really stopping you if you know where to go. Link to post Share on other sites
BakedBean 0 Posted October 9, 2002 Share Posted October 9, 2002 Great site guys, thanks for putting me on it BagofCrisps. Thumbs up. Now only if we could get to Japan, hey? Link to post Share on other sites
Fattwins 0 Posted October 10, 2002 Share Posted October 10, 2002 Your right about that day it was safe Ocean the top parts of the runs through the trees were nice but the bottoms were heavy at least for the 1080s I was using. My point being is that it is more complex then we think. Back home we sometimes have to wait for hours and or a day or 2 for things to open up. The patrol sometimes want time to blast or let the snow pack sit for a day, or if its still snowing they mught just close it down completly. At places like Fernie and whitewater if you duck a closed rope when they have it closed for what ever reason you will loose sking priviliges for a year. Does that mean that they could opne more here sure they could. In the last 4 years Cortina has closed more than they have opened. 2 old pow runs to the lower parking area are gone and so are the trees. But with people getting out there and pushing the bounderies and doing it safe and uninjuryed than the resorts will open more they have to, the trend has been set. I stand by Arai they do pretty well with what they were given although placing the lift gondola on the skiers left mountain would have offered a lot more. Link to post Share on other sites
danz 0 Posted October 10, 2002 Share Posted October 10, 2002 fattwinns... that is true...but the point about N.American resorts is that if a trail is closed for a day or 2, I actually trust that it is because it is not safe (most of the time), and it WILL open later, when conditions allow...the patrol know their shhit there is nothing like that here...the patrol does not work as hard here...and despite the nice articles on SJG about arai, and what others may say, I don't buy it...closing terrain supports my claim too... danz Link to post Share on other sites
Fattwins 0 Posted October 11, 2002 Share Posted October 11, 2002 I think that Arai could have positioned they main lifts better indeed. Put it up on skiers left and you get a whole lot more. Your right about patrol lots dont have a clue but the guys at Arai can out ski a lot of people, same with Cortina. I know that most of those guys would rather ski it than close it. I think that they are just doing there job. That said.... At North American resorts we blast here they dont. I think it makes a big difference if you cant blast. (does anyone know why i was told that it was illegal somethingto do with laws after the war) Most of the places that have problems with slides have these inplace air gas explosion tubes, thus they cant activily control outsides those areas effectivily. Take for example the Lake Taos region. 3 days storms like Japan but they blast the crap out of the mountain after and during. Same is done at Jackson hole where people are known to have jumped into the damm holes. Do Japanese resorts have a lot to learn yes I think that they do. But as anything in Japan its a slow change. If I was to change something I would change have blasting going on. Hey one goo thing about all this closing off when it is safe you get it all to yourself. That doesnt happen too much anymore back in N. America. Link to post Share on other sites
xxx 2 Posted October 12, 2002 Share Posted October 12, 2002 Baked Bean - nice name You know, my thoughts on this change often. Sometimes I think they don't have a clue, but then you've got to wonder why a company and management would all be doing things "without a clue". There must be reasons for some of the decisions they make, we just can't imagine them for the most part. Otherwise, we'd be saying they're just a bunch of dopes. Oops, maybe they are. Got a hangover, time to go back to sleep. Link to post Share on other sites
scouser 4 Posted October 13, 2002 Share Posted October 13, 2002 Leave the darls alone. We just don't want them to open, and not close down right now due to any mindless policies they have. Link to post Share on other sites
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