Pay as little tax as possible - would you?

[Tubby Beaver 209]

but thats the point MO, its ok for the cream to do this, but not the riff raff

[Metabo Oyaji 71]

Not being one of the cream, perhaps I'm not qualified to judge, but while it sounds like the scheme Carr was involved in should perhaps be illegal, it is not his fault that it isn't.

 

What next, is it morally wrong to take advantage of home loan tax credits? Kodomo teate? ETC discounts?

[Tubby Beaver 209]

Not being one of the cream, perhaps I'm not qualified to judge, but while it sounds like the scheme Carr was involved in should perhaps be illegal, it is not his fault that it isn't.

 

What next, is it morally wrong to take advantage of home loan tax credits? Kodomo teate? ETC discounts?

 

 

err I think you have the wrong end of the stick.......I agree with you. Its David Cameron and his chinless wonder mates who I don't agree with. They are cuttinf taxes for the uber rich whilst hitting the middle and lower classes. So its OK for THEM to have these loopholes, but as soon as anyone not of their status decides to utilise a similar tax break, then of course its all wrong

[Metabo Oyaji 71]

err I think you have the wrong end of the stick.......I agree with you.

 

Groovy.

[big-will 7]

Not being one of the cream, perhaps I'm not qualified to judge, but while it sounds like the scheme Carr was involved in should perhaps be illegal, it is not his fault that it isn't.

 

What next, is it morally wrong to take advantage of home loan tax credits? Kodomo teate? ETC discounts?

 

One big difference of course being that anyone can take advantage of those easily.

You don't need a bunch of expensive accountants.

[brit-gob 9]

That Carr-being-bullied-into-an-apology is pretty ridiculous as well isn't it.

I suppose he's trying to save his 'image', though having said that his image isn't exactly angelic is it.

 

He should have said something like "it's legal, lots of others are doing it - stop the loophole" or something like that.

[klingon 10]

I guess people like Carr may even now know how much they have any what percantage tax they are paying - leave it to the accountants.

The easy solution is to close the loopholes so this kind of thing simply can't happen.

We know they won't do that though hey.

[ProbablyaCrazyPerson 2]

snowjunky was very clearly not saying what Go Native said.

 

If anyone knows that way to get my tax down to 1%, please do tell me. It might save me a few hundred yen a month.

[Chriselle 158]

Just out of curiosity...... have any of you sat down with a resource like "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" for an afternoons read? Again, just curious......

[hellyer 216]

Just out of curiosity...... have any of you sat down with a resource like "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" for an afternoons read? Again, just curious......

 

Chris I still have Kiyosaki's masterpiece in my library. I first read it around 10 years ago and I still dig it out every so often. I have since bought a copy for each of my three adult kids - it is such an enlightening read

[Chriselle 158]

This thread has also caused me to dig it out and also load "Think and Grow Rich" onto my new iPad. I also flip on Earle Nightingales classic in MP3 for a .... kick in the pants.

[hellyer 216]

a .... kick in the pants - what you get half a woodie when your listening to it

[Tubby Beaver 209]

didn't really dig "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" tbh....maybe I just didn't really follow it. It didn't really seem to give all that much advice......maybe I should dig it oout of the cupboard and read it again

[Chriselle 158]

a .... kick in the pants - what you get half a woodie when your listening to it

 

It's his deep husky voice....gets me every time.

[Chriselle 158]

didn't really dig "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" tbh....maybe I just didn't really follow it. It didn't really seem to give all that much advice......maybe I should dig it oout of the cupboard and read it again

 

Nope.....nor should they...despite the fact we all crave it.

[Tubby Beaver 209]

then what do you like about it?

[Chriselle 158]

That IS the question isn't it..... Any reason that comes to mind just comes out sounding corny... but my spidey sense just tells me there is something right as rain about it all.

 

And I'll always listen to others who are on a successful path even if their success is intertwined with the delivering of the message like all the Bob Proctors, Nightingales, Hills.....etc.

 

 

 

oh and...back on topic..

 

I did tell you all that car tax and Shaken SUCK right.....

 

170,000 yen.......grrrr

[hellyer 216]

Ooh you are starting to creep me out now Chriselle , getting all gooey like over blokes

[Chriselle 158]

[Tubby Beaver 209]

see...its ok for the chinless wonders...

 

Morally wrong?: PM told to close loopholes that allow super-rich to avoid paying £4billion tax a year

 

PM silent on cronies such as father-in-law Lord Astor and donor Lord Ashcroft who have used tax havens

 

David Cameron last night faced a furious backlash for refusing to condemn the tax affairs of his rich pals while attacking Jimmy Carr.

The PM was silent on cronies such as father-in-law Lord Astor and donor Lord Ashcroft who have used tax havens.

Labour's John Mann said: "Are they morally wrong too?. Carr apologised.

Against a backdrop of cuts that threaten jobs and livelihoods, struggling Britons will agree with David Cameron that Jimmy Carr’s tax avoidance was morally wrong.

But the PM was last night branded a hypocrite for singling out the comic when his own wealthy family and cronies have used similar schemes that mean the country misses out on £4.5billion a year.

And hard-up families being stripped of their child benefit will be furious that Mr Cameron’s rich pals are allowed to get away with paying just one per cent tax while doctors, nurses and police face the axe.

The cash could be used to build nine hospitals like the Queen Elizabeth in Birmingham or up to 100 schools.

It would allow Chancellor George Osborne to scrap his hated granny tax raid on pensioners, with £1billion left over.

And if the money went to the Treasury instead of offshore accounts it would save the jobs of 12,000 soldiers.

Mr Cameron last night faced calls to close the loophole that allows people to funnel their pay through schemes such as the Jersey-based K2 system Carr used.

The comedian yesterday issued a ­grovelling apology for his “terrible error of judgment”.

The PM branded the scheme “morally wrong”.

But critics turned on him after learning his stockbroker dad Ian used tax havens in Panama City and Geneva to build up the family fortune.

And his father-in-law Viscount Astor has a home on the Scottish island of Jura, a favourite holiday spot for the Camerons, which is owned by a company registered in the Bahamas.

Millionaire Cabinet colleagues including Andrew Mitchell, Philip Hammond, Jeremy Hunt and Osborne, who has a £4million trust fund, have also found themselves accused of avoiding tax.

The PM refuse to be drawn on his own family’s tax affairs when approached by the Mirror.

But Labour’s John Mann said: “This is hypocrisy pure and simple.

“What is good enough for Jimmy Carr is good enough for his advisers, his donors and his family. We look forward to seeing him act consistently.

“Cameron is going to have some difficult silences when he has the in-laws for dinner.”

And Shadow Commons Leader Angela Eagle demanded to know why the PM singled out Carr but made no mention of Tory supporter Gary Barlow and his Take That band mates who plough £26million into Icebreaker investment schemes which also cut tax.

She said: “Oddly, (Mr Cameron) did not take the opportunity to condemn as morally ­repugnant the tax avoidance scheme used by Conservative supporter Gary Barlow, who has given a whole new meaning to the phrase Take That.

“If he is also morally repugnant, why has he been given an OBE?”

Mr Osborne was last night accused of spouting hot air over bold tax avoidance plans he promised have come to nothing.

The Chancellor vowed to stop people dodging stamp duty by buying property through offshore firms.

But critics said the ­hypocrisy over the Carr issue proves the ­Government is showing little interest in hammering the super-rich.

Shadow Treasury minister Chris Leslie added: “Everyday we are hearing more examples of new dodges and scams. Ordinary people are having their child benefit cut and have had VAT hiked while wages stay flat and these schemes let the rich get richer.

“We have heard a lot of talk from George Osborne but the Government need to take this more seriously and get on and act.”

Lib Dem peer Lord Oakeshott said: “When you lift the stone on tax-dodging by Britain’s rich and famous it’s nauseating to see what crawls out. George Osborne was right to call ­aggressive tax avoidance morally repugnant.

“So what are he and David Cameron going to do about it apart from selective condemnation of comedians who aren’t Tory donors?”

Ex-Tory ­treasurer Lord Ashcroft, the party’s biggest donor, spent years as a “non-dom” who escaped paying full tax on his overseas business empire before surrendering the status to remain a peer.

Mr Cameron offered the Tory treasurer job to financier David Rowland even though he had lived abroad as a tax exile.

And the PM appointed ­billionaire Sir Philip Green as a ­Government adviser despite ­complicated tax arrangements which mean his High Street retail empire is owned by his Monaco-based wife.

Mr Cameron had attacked Carr’s tax scheme during a trip to Mexico. He said: “It is not fair on hardworking people who pay their taxes to see these scams.”

But when yesterday asked about Barlow’s situation, he pledged to look into the case, then brushed off the ­question by declaring: “I am not going to give a running commentary on different people’s tax affairs. I don’t think that would be right.

"I made an exception yesterday because it was a very specific case where the details seemed to have been published and it was a particularly egregious example of an avoidance scheme that seemed to me to be wrong and I made that point.”

Carr issued a statement declaring he would no longer be paying into the K2 scheme.

He said: “I met with a financial advisor and he said to me, ‘Do you want to pay less tax? It’s totally legal.’ I said ‘Yes.’ I now realise I’ve made a terrible error of judgment.

“Although I’ve been advised the K2 tax scheme is entirely legal, and has been fully disclosed to HMRC, I’m no longer involved in it. Apologies to everyone.”

Lord Astor, who is Samantha Cameron’s step-dad, insisted last night he pays the correct amount of tax.

He said: “My answer is very clear. We pay full taxes. No more to say.” But the PM faces cross-party calls to make the peer bring the Scottish property “onshore”.

Lib Dem peer Lord Oakeshott said: “Mr Cameron should book a country supper with Lord Astor to persuaded him to bring his Scottish estate back now from the Bahamas.”

The PM’s ­spokeswoman insisted he knew nothing about the ­Scottish estate’s ownership or any details of his father-in-laws tax affairs.

Lord Oakeshott also insisted Mr Cameron should not have appointed Sir Philip or Lord Ashcroft, who was rewarded with a job reviewing military bases.

He added: “Non-dom status is the worst tax-dodging scam by far.

“David Cameron must now admit it sent a terrible message on tax avoidance to make the Monaco commuter Sir Philip Green a Government adviser and promise that no future appointments will be made without fully vetting their tax status.”

Insiders believe the PM’s attack on Carr has opened up the tax affairs of those around him to scrutiny in a move that could backfire as badly as John Major’s Back to Basics moral crusade.

Aides claim he believes all “aggressive tax avoidance” was wrong but could not explain where he drew the line.

 

 

[NoFakie 45]

Just out of curiosity...... have any of you sat down with a resource like "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" for an afternoons read? Again, just curious......

 

Yes, but I was very unimpressed. The thrift/work hard advice was nothing special and the college is a waste of time insinuations were unhelpful if not misleading, though they will appeal to a certain kind of person. Education has a very high correlation with income.

The problems with education are that vocational skills education should be more highly respected and that by itself, education doesn't entitle you to anything. Everything won't just fall into your lap. However, all things being equal, if you're motivated and a bit lucky, you'll get on better than an uneducated person who's motivated and a bit lucky. All the numbers back it up.

 

I've seen Kiyosaki boast about real estate deals he's done but real estate is often just a timing play. How many have lost money on real estate in the past five years?

[Slippery Jim 65]

While I generally support the concept of legal tax avoidance and most proposals for tax reduction, the rationale for a lower tax rate on capital gains escapes me.

I would certainly favor a flat tax, no exemptions, no deductions, no loopholes -- a straight x% on all incoming money.

Of course, the unemployment office would be flooded with accountants & lawyers

[sanjo 2]

And the percentage for those on lower wages should be higher...... Get them working harder!

 

[Go Native 70]

While I generally support the concept of legal tax avoidance and most proposals for tax reduction, the rationale for a lower tax rate on capital gains escapes me.

I would certainly favor a flat tax, no exemptions, no deductions, no loopholes -- a straight x% on all incoming money.

Of course, the unemployment office would be flooded with accountants & lawyers

 

A flat rate of tax high enough to maintain a similar amount of revenue would on the whole make the poor far worse off, the middle classes somewhat worse off and the rich generally far better off. Hardly something that would be all that popular. To limit the effect on the poor you would have to have a pretty high tax free threshold. Overall it's really only something that benefits high income earners who are paying higher rates of tax. As most of the population doesn't fall into that category why would the general populace ever want it?

[Slippery Jim 65]

Just as an initial aside…who said anything about maintaining revenue?

A bit less in the pork barrel might not be bad.

And why limit the effect on the poor? Give them an incentive to escape poverty!

 

I wonder what support other than opinion you have for yourassertions.

Under what economic theory do you find a flat tax with no exemptions less ``fair,'' or more beneficial to the rich?

(As if it's somehow more ``fair'' to design taxation to favor the poor…)