Quantas........Grounded!

[Go Native 70]

I can understand why Qantas want to move their international operations offshore. Aussie wages and conditions contribute greatly to the losses the international side of the business has been experiencing. They need to cut costs or add value to get people to pay a premium. The way management have treated their workforce in this dispute though tells me they aren't too interested in keeping them long term. Pretty hard to come back from such animosity between management and workers. Especially when so many of the workers are in roles that brings them in direct contact with the public. A pissed off workforce isn't going to feel that great about promoting the company and providing the best experience possible are they? Joyce taking a 71% pay rise when the company is claiming such hardship was just a ridiculous slap in the face for the workers as well. Moving operations to Asia may well be inevitable though.

[Tex 3]

Old news but highly relevant

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/breaking-news/xenophon-attacks-qantas-management/story-fn3dxity-1226120794255

[hellyer 216]

Do we really need Qantas?

 

Would Australia really be a different place without Qantas?

There's a national swelling of pride when it comes to Qantas. Australians get all emotional about it.

It's not always love. Just scan the comments section of any one of hundreds of blogs about the airline and you'll see outpourings of frustration that our national carrier isn't up to the standards that people have decided it should be. There's a lot of rage out there.

But all of that comes from a place of pride. People get mad because they care. Qantas is Australia, and they want it to represent us accordingly.

So this question might not go down so well, but it needs to be asked: do we really need Qantas?

I mean, if you woke up tomorrow and Qantas didn't exist, would the world be a worse place? Could travellers, former employees and all other Australians soldier on without the existence of a national icon?

The answers, for me, are no and yes. The world wouldn't be a worse place; we would survive.

I find this interesting to think about, because regardless of who's wrong and who's right in the current industrial action, the general consensus seems to be that Qantas has to survive. It's a large employer, but also a "national icon".

But maybe its time really is limited – as it could be for a lot of independent full-service carriers in a competitive, changing market.

This hypothetical is taking a few suppositions, most notably that with unchanged demand, those who lost their jobs with the demise of Qantas would be rehired by whichever entity stepped in to fill the void. But that's not what this is all about – it's about the services Qantas provides, and the brand itself.

Qantas is indelibly linked to the Australian identity. Jetstar is as much an Australian airline as its parent, but you don't see anyone swelling with patriotic pride when they see a row of orange aeroplane tails. It's all about the white kangaroo.

But I don't get it – it's just a company. An Australian company, sure, but just a company. Someone would fill the void.

And as a lot of travellers already know, that someone might do a better job.

Domestic travellers would take a hit without Qantas, but not a huge one. Jetstar, Qantas's budget brother, would move in to take a lot of the passengers who now travel with the full-service airline. Virgin Australia, as it did over the weekend, would also step into the breach. With two carriers prices would remain competitive.

For international travellers, however, the lack of Qantas would barely be noticed. The budget carriers would still exist, so anyone wanting a cheap trip to South-East Asia could still have it. And anyone prepared to pay for extra service could still get around with Asian carriers like Singapore, Malaysian or Asiana, which currently offer a far better service than Qantas does.

There's nothing Qantas offers that other airlines don't, aside from the fact that it's a good old Aussie brand, a homegrown success story with an international presence. And that's what drives most people's interest in it.

But while it's nice to have a national brand that we can all feel some proud of – for whatever bizarre reason – it's not necessary.

The musician Frank Zappa once said that to be a real country, you need "a beer and an airline". One out of two wouldn't be so bad.

[foreversnow 5]

Yep we are flying Qantas in February. I was talking to a Qantas Hostess the other day and queried about flights next year Jan/Feb as we were flying with them to Japan to which she replied "Good Luck with That" :veryshocked: . Suddenly my cheap flights isn't looking so great!!

[hellyer 216]

Snowhuntress, you may want to check your flight details on line. A mate of mine booked through Qantas website for a feb flight from Brisbane - Sydney- Narita.

With the kerfuffle this week he rechecked the booking and the actual flights are on Jetstar planes. He had booked Qantas becouse of stories of Jetstars poor record of late flights and cancellations so he is not too happy.

Then again with you Qntas hostie comments above it looks like pot luck either way.

[surfarthur 22]

There seems to be a lot of this booking a Qantas flight and ending up on a Jetstar flight. Do you still get the benefits of the "premium carrier" or do you get stuck with all the "budget carrier" no frills?

[hellyer 216]

not sure Surfarthur, but I would be p....d off if it was not full service.

I am flying JAL next Feb - sick of being let down by jetstar

[surfarthur 22]

I am booked on Cathay Pacific after being let down by Qantas!

[HelperElfMissy 42]

Yep we are flying Qantas in February. I was talking to a Qantas Hostess the other day and queried about flights next year Jan/Feb as we were flying with them to Japan to which she replied "Good Luck with That" :veryshocked: . Suddenly my cheap flights isn't looking so great!!

Yeah... didn't really want to hear that snowhuntress!

1st Jan for me.

 

But don't worry coz I got an email from Qantas today.

They said:

. While I deeply regret the short-term impact of the fleet being grounded, following the Fair Work Australia decision we now have absolute certainty for our customers. No further industrial action can take place. No more aircraft will be grounded and no services cancelled as a result of industrial action.

 

You can now book Qantas flights with complete confidence. This is an immeasurably better situation than last Friday, when Qantas faced the prospect of ongoing disruptions, perhaps for another 12 months.

 

We have now moved into 21 days of negotiations with each of the unions with the assistance of Fair Work Australia. All parties will be treated equally in order to reach reasonable agreements. If this cannot happen, binding arbitration will take place to secure an outcome. We will respect whatever decisions are reached.

 

Regardless of how and when the agreements are reached, the period of uncertainty and instability for Qantas is over. We are moving forward and putting this dispute behind us.

 

Our focus now is on our customers. We want to restore your faith by returning our on-time performance to its normal high levels, continuing to invest in new aircraft and lounges and ensuring the best possible in-flight experience.

 

The end of industrial action means we can concentrate on what matters – getting you to your destination on time and in comfort, offering the best network and frequency of any Australian airline and rewarding your loyalty as a Qantas Frequent Flyer.

[hellyer 216]

The end of industrial action means we can concentrate on what matters – getting you to your destination on time and in comfort, offering the best network and frequency of any Australian airline and rewarding your loyalty as a Qantas Frequent Flyer.".....................................................................................................................................................unless we bump you on to Jetstar

[BagOfCrisps 24]

jet star just sounds cheap

[seemore 66]

MB

 

"We can definitely guarantee you will be on time unless we have to go to Manila enroute to Tokyo"

 

Quantas aren't the best airline but they offered the best direct flight to Japan from Perth and I miss that flight.

 

Lets hope that they can piss off the unions and start to be a international force once again.

 

Still waiting if not have to go around the world for Feb.

 

Seemore

[Tubby Beaver 209]

without the unions you don't have a workforce

[HelperElfMissy 42]

MB

 

"We can definitely guarantee you will be on time unless we have to go to Manila enroute to Tokyo"

 

Seemore

That was a FUN flight! huh?!

I am sure it was worse for the woman they had to offload, but I have only had one other deviation from booked route in the past... A Canberra - Perth flight post snowboarding where the headwinds were so ridonkulous that they had to land in Adelaide to refuel so we could make it to Perth. Those delays are when connections are a bitch. Much easier when it is simply a late arrival, rather than a missed connection.

 

DARK about the Perth -Tokyo flight disappearing off the radar.

It would have made taking a week in Hakuba end Feb/Early March a no brainer. If you add another day or so for travel time to go VIA (wherever) then it will be more difficult to pull off.

[seemore 66]

Quantas have just announced that they will give away 100,000 free flights to customers affected by the grounding as well as reimburse them.

 

Alan Joyce is a Legend

 

And TB that is a crock unions have done there bit for the lemmings we are in a global economy now.

 

Seemore

[Tubby Beaver 209]

Quantas have just announced that they will give away 100,000 free flights to customers affected by the grounding as well as reimburse them.

 

Alan Joyce is a Legend

 

And TB that is a crock unions have done there bit for the lemmings we are in a global economy now.

 

Seemore

 

I have no idea what this means.

 

Ok so lets scrap the Unions, lets go back to allowing unscrupulous bosses to pay 1 shiny penny to 10yr olds to work by candlelight in highly unsafe conditions, with no one making checks.....ahh, the world is all good now.

 

Unions aren't perfect and in more than a few cases they have been damaging as well, but there needs to be a system where there are checks on both sides, to ensure no one is being exploited. That people are given a fair day's pay for a fair day's work and can expect that their workplace is as safe as can possibly be. Just getting rid of Unions would result in a violent swing back toward the 19th Century.

[r45 4]

'their bit'?

[Tubby Beaver 209]

yeah but I don't get the "Lemmings" part and how its connected to a Global economy

[minus 1]

Me neither

[seemore 66]

I was just going to let it go as we have different opinions on Unions.

 

But please let me explain Lemmings are little rodents who blindly follow each other (as per folklore).

 

I agree with you TB that in the 19th century unions helped out millions of people without a voice.

 

In my opinion and in this case they are justifing there existance by being greedy.

 

Quantas cannot continue to pay what the unions demand for 10% of their work force, eventually to be competitive they will need to move

 

offshore (Global Economy/ Workforce) or be underwritten by our government.

 

Seemore

[HelperElfMissy 42]

I agree with you TB that in the 19th century unions helped out millions of people without a voice.

 

In my opinion and in this case they are justifing there existance by being greedy.

I tend to agree.

There are places where Unions are necessary and very valuable.

However Australia in 2011 is not one of them. There are basic safety nets that protect all workers, no one is going to be conscripted into salve labour in dangerous conditions.

This is about receiving MORE than the basic fair pay for fair work. If you want that, then you need to negotiate it, not blackmail it.

My son is currently negotiating a higher rate of pay, his argument was that he was good at what does and he has been doing it for a long time now.

That was great but it didn't justify a pay rise as he is already paid well above the award. However he went and got his Senior First Aid certificate and that earned him a small hourly increase.

[surfarthur 22]

I completely disagree that unions are not needed in Australia. I will concede that they can be greedy and use "blackmailing" tactics, but employers are very good at this too. Not all unions are greedy, just like not all employers are greedy. If the unions disappeared from Australia, I think that it would quickly become difficult for employees across the country to get a fair go.

 

On the flipside, I do believe that in Australia, the unions currently have too much power over employers, making it difficult to sack people even when they are grossly negligent in their duties as an employee and making life generally difficult for employers, particularly small business owners who do not have the same abilities to fight back when union demands are too much for them. Many small businesses have failed, and many more will fail in the future if it does not become easier for them to comply with employment regulations and a highly unionised workforce.

 

What I am trying to say is that what we need is balance. Without unions, there cannot be balance, and within a relatively short timeframe, a fair days work for a fair days pay would become a thing of the past in Australia. Equally employers need to be able to do business without facing excessive cost of compliance with employment and other regulations and often high labour costs making it difficult to survive.

 

By the way, I am not now, nor have I ever been a member of a union.

[sand 17]

To say unions are not needed in any country is rather worrying. Companies in most countries are mandated to make as maximize profit for share holders, and I'd be surprised if it's any different in Australia.

To assume blind faith that all corporations would not take advantage of the lack of unions in order to maximize profits is so completely blind, just jaw dropping really.

[sand 17]

As stated above, I agree there needs to be checks and balances on both sides.

[Tubby Beaver 209]

I was just going to let it go as we have different opinions on Unions.

 

But please let me explain Lemmings are little rodents who blindly follow each other (as per folklore).

 

I agree with you TB that in the 19th century unions helped out millions of people without a voice.

 

In my opinion and in this case they are justifing there existance by being greedy.

 

Quantas cannot continue to pay what the unions demand for 10% of their work force, eventually to be competitive they will need to move

 

offshore (Global Economy/ Workforce) or be underwritten by our government.

 

Seemore

 

 

I'm aware of what Lemmings are and what they do.....I still don't understand your post.

 

The reason that you think you don't need Unions now is because of the work that Unions have done. MB, just you wait and see, it would be a quick slide back if Unions were taken away.