Kanji vs Romaji

[RobBright 35]

Originally Posted By: Chriselle

Kanji, Hiragana, romaji.....all fine. The thing that's got ta go is KATAKANA!! Grrrr...

why?

katakana helped me eat for 6 months!

[Tubby Beaver 209]

haha....me too!! first words I learned was pizza ピザ and beer ビル

I would've been screwed in those early days if it wasn't for those 4 fantastic katakana characters!!

[RobBright 35]

Originally Posted By: Tubby Beaver

haha....me too!! first words I learned was pizza ピザ and beer ビル
I would've been screwed in those early days if it wasn't for those 4 fantastic katakana characters!!

you ate a building? ビル？

ビール　→ beer

[Tubby Beaver 209]

no, I drank one actually, smart arse!!

[RobBright 35]

Originally Posted By: Tubby Beaver

no, I drank one actually, smart arse!!

drinking a building just sounds plain silly.

[JA2340 16]

Trouble with romaji is the many, many ways in which a single sound can be represented using the "roman" alphabet.

 

for me, "o" has a particular sound, for a Victorian, or an American (US type) and for other nationalities, it has different ones.

 

so, a pronunciation guide that says "A" is pronounced like in "father" or "car", is a problem because of the regional pronunciation differences.

 

(as an aside, I taught with a lady whose pronunciation of the girl's name Ellen was more like the boy's name Alan. As a result, Ellen was always marked absent in roll call. see the problem??)

[Metabo Oyaji 71]

Originally Posted By: stemik

Did the Koreans remove a lot of kanji from there "alphabet"?

I gather they largely did. I've wondered what kind of effect that had on vocabulary development. Though they do apparently still make kids study kanji (hanja) in school, so even if they don't use them much in daily life, perhaps that knowledge still helps them to identify the roots of Chinese-origin words. (?)

[gerard 6]

I think they still use them for headlines, titles and names of stuff, etc. They stopped teaching it for a short time in schools 20+ years ago but then changed there mind and started teaching it again so there's a generation of kids who are around 40 years old now who have trouble with kanji, or so I've heard.

[Jynxx 4]

You don't really have to go and start learning katakana all over again after doing hiragana.

Let me explain, My missus took only 10 days to read and write the 50 hiragana. Sure the writing bit in just 10 days, she needs thinking time, but reading is OK. I said to her not to worry about Katakana cos they are mostly used for foreign words, (hence, they can't go, when you see katakana, that's like a visual key) so just learn katakana as it comes.

Learning the first few kanji is not that difficult, either.

[Jynxx 4]

Interesting thing about the Korean script - hangul script is, that the japanese used it before the kanji import (4 A.D.)

[RobBright 35]

Originally Posted By: Jynxx

Interesting thing about the Korean script - hangul script is, that the japanese used it before the kanji import (4 A.D.)

Really?

Considering hangul wasn't devised until the 14th/15th Century ( I forget exactly) and that no definitive record of Japanese writing exists before kanji was imported, do you have evidence that we don't have access to?

If you mean the supposed writing style that was propogated by Japanese nationalists between WW1 and WW2, then sure, it was "similiar" to hangul.

[Jynxx 4]

Originally Posted By: RobBright

no definitive record of Japanese writing exists before kanji was imported, do you have evidence that we don't have access to?

You just haven't looked deep enough.

Actually, there is. Temple artifacts. This imo, is evidence that not only the japanese were actually using writing before the chinese imperial occupation and establishment in the 4 AD, but the history that we were taught has been deliberately distorted - another evidence - you can read that in Kojiki, and Nikonshoki.

Also in petroglyph - Sumerian, Runes, Hieroglyphes (chinese and pacific region including North American Indian.

[RobBright 35]

Ok then oh wise one, where should we look?

 

Temple artifacts? Surely they have been distorted over the years too?

 

It's interesting that you believe "deliberate distortion" has taken place. What distortion do you supposedly think happened and why would Japanese distort their own history, if it were them that did it?

[Go Native 70]

Well they've not distorted anything about what the Japanese army got up to during WWII have they? Would be most out of character for the Japanese to distort any of their history now wouldn't it?

[RobBright 35]

[Yuki's Passion 1]

Originally Posted By: RobBright

It's interesting that you believe "deliberate distortion" has taken place. What distortion do you supposedly think happened and why would Japanese distort their own history, if it were them that did it?

You dont need to look further than 日本å²A and 日本å²B　to see just how badly Japan HAS distorted its own history. Try finding out any information on what Japan did in Manchuria, China, Korea, Thailand, Myanmar, Philippines, etc and you'll walk away with your head shaking. You might find a sentence. One sentence on the subject matter. I recognize that most countries dont teach the depth of what destruction really took place, but to totally deny it and act like it didnt happen?

[RobBright 35]

Originally Posted By: RobBright

To clarify as CB and GN both have missed the point:

why would Japanese change/distort their history of their writing?
This has NOTHING to do with war.

[Go Native 70]

You obviously don't understand what means

Just so you get up to speed on how this forum works, I'll give you a hint. I was joking....

 

Frankly I couldn't think of much I could be less interested in than the history of the Japanese language.

[RobBright 35]

You obviously don't understand what means

Just so you get up to speed on how this forum works, I'll give you a hint. It can mean someone thinks whatever is silly, frustrating, annoying, not true - it varies with the situation it may be used in.

[RobBright 35]

Nice edit btw

[Go Native 70]

Quote:

To clarify as CB and GN both have missed the point:

 

Ah but supposedly I was missing some point. If you understood I was joking then you already knew I wasn't actually trying to make any valid point...

[Jynxx 4]

 

GN, Black humour, I dig it.

 

"The point is the tip of your nose (the angle of it?) "

 

CB gives a good example. Would every country give the same account of the past? No. History can be, and is rewritten everyday.

I reckon GN and CB will find "The Imperial Cruise , J.Bradley" interesting.

 

Rob, read å¤äº‹è¨˜ and go figure, or talk to a linguist as you wish.

[Yuki's Passion 1]

Kojiki and Nihonshoki: read excerpts of them in Uni and was really bored.

[Jynxx 4]

Written in Manyo-Kana, it's interesting to see the development of kana writing. How kanji was written.

As to the story, it is mythology and ancient folk lore, but that is the interesting bit. You got to put yourself in that mindset. CB, I reckon read it again, your brain has been Japanised

[Metabo Oyaji 71]

Should make another run at the å¤äº‹è¨˜ myself at some point. Gave up after two pages last time. (Likewise Finnegan's Wake.)