RobBright 35 Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 Originally Posted By: Chriselle Kanji, Hiragana, romaji.....all fine. The thing that's got ta go is KATAKANA!! Grrrr... why? katakana helped me eat for 6 months! Link to post Share on other sites
Tubby Beaver 209 Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 haha....me too!! first words I learned was pizza ピザ and beer ビル I would've been screwed in those early days if it wasn't for those 4 fantastic katakana characters!! Link to post Share on other sites
RobBright 35 Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 Originally Posted By: Tubby Beaver haha....me too!! first words I learned was pizza ピザ and beer ビル I would've been screwed in those early days if it wasn't for those 4 fantastic katakana characters!! you ate a building? ビル? ビール → beer Link to post Share on other sites
Tubby Beaver 209 Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 no, I drank one actually, smart arse!! Link to post Share on other sites
RobBright 35 Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 Originally Posted By: Tubby Beaver no, I drank one actually, smart arse!! drinking a building just sounds plain silly. Link to post Share on other sites
JA2340 16 Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 Trouble with romaji is the many, many ways in which a single sound can be represented using the "roman" alphabet. for me, "o" has a particular sound, for a Victorian, or an American (US type) and for other nationalities, it has different ones. so, a pronunciation guide that says "A" is pronounced like in "father" or "car", is a problem because of the regional pronunciation differences. (as an aside, I taught with a lady whose pronunciation of the girl's name Ellen was more like the boy's name Alan. As a result, Ellen was always marked absent in roll call. see the problem??) Link to post Share on other sites
Metabo Oyaji 71 Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 Originally Posted By: stemik Did the Koreans remove a lot of kanji from there "alphabet"? I gather they largely did. I've wondered what kind of effect that had on vocabulary development. Though they do apparently still make kids study kanji (hanja) in school, so even if they don't use them much in daily life, perhaps that knowledge still helps them to identify the roots of Chinese-origin words. (?) Link to post Share on other sites
gerard 6 Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 I think they still use them for headlines, titles and names of stuff, etc. They stopped teaching it for a short time in schools 20+ years ago but then changed there mind and started teaching it again so there's a generation of kids who are around 40 years old now who have trouble with kanji, or so I've heard. Link to post Share on other sites
Jynxx 4 Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 You don't really have to go and start learning katakana all over again after doing hiragana. Let me explain, My missus took only 10 days to read and write the 50 hiragana. Sure the writing bit in just 10 days, she needs thinking time, but reading is OK. I said to her not to worry about Katakana cos they are mostly used for foreign words, (hence, they can't go, when you see katakana, that's like a visual key) so just learn katakana as it comes. Learning the first few kanji is not that difficult, either. Link to post Share on other sites
Jynxx 4 Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 Interesting thing about the Korean script - hangul script is, that the japanese used it before the kanji import (4 A.D.) Link to post Share on other sites
RobBright 35 Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 Originally Posted By: Jynxx Interesting thing about the Korean script - hangul script is, that the japanese used it before the kanji import (4 A.D.) Really? Considering hangul wasn't devised until the 14th/15th Century ( I forget exactly) and that no definitive record of Japanese writing exists before kanji was imported, do you have evidence that we don't have access to? If you mean the supposed writing style that was propogated by Japanese nationalists between WW1 and WW2, then sure, it was "similiar" to hangul. Link to post Share on other sites
Jynxx 4 Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 Originally Posted By: RobBright no definitive record of Japanese writing exists before kanji was imported, do you have evidence that we don't have access to? You just haven't looked deep enough. Actually, there is. Temple artifacts. This imo, is evidence that not only the japanese were actually using writing before the chinese imperial occupation and establishment in the 4 AD, but the history that we were taught has been deliberately distorted - another evidence - you can read that in Kojiki, and Nikonshoki. Also in petroglyph - Sumerian, Runes, Hieroglyphes (chinese and pacific region including North American Indian. Link to post Share on other sites
RobBright 35 Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 Ok then oh wise one, where should we look? Temple artifacts? Surely they have been distorted over the years too? It's interesting that you believe "deliberate distortion" has taken place. What distortion do you supposedly think happened and why would Japanese distort their own history, if it were them that did it? Link to post Share on other sites
Go Native 70 Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 Well they've not distorted anything about what the Japanese army got up to during WWII have they? Would be most out of character for the Japanese to distort any of their history now wouldn't it? Link to post Share on other sites
Yuki's Passion 1 Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 Originally Posted By: RobBright It's interesting that you believe "deliberate distortion" has taken place. What distortion do you supposedly think happened and why would Japanese distort their own history, if it were them that did it? You dont need to look further than 日本å²A and 日本å²B to see just how badly Japan HAS distorted its own history. Try finding out any information on what Japan did in Manchuria, China, Korea, Thailand, Myanmar, Philippines, etc and you'll walk away with your head shaking. You might find a sentence. One sentence on the subject matter. I recognize that most countries dont teach the depth of what destruction really took place, but to totally deny it and act like it didnt happen? Link to post Share on other sites
RobBright 35 Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 Originally Posted By: RobBright To clarify as CB and GN both have missed the point: why would Japanese change/distort their history of their writing? This has NOTHING to do with war. Link to post Share on other sites
Go Native 70 Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 You obviously don't understand what means Just so you get up to speed on how this forum works, I'll give you a hint. I was joking.... Frankly I couldn't think of much I could be less interested in than the history of the Japanese language. Link to post Share on other sites
RobBright 35 Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 You obviously don't understand what means Just so you get up to speed on how this forum works, I'll give you a hint. It can mean someone thinks whatever is silly, frustrating, annoying, not true - it varies with the situation it may be used in. Link to post Share on other sites
RobBright 35 Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 Nice edit btw Link to post Share on other sites
Go Native 70 Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 Quote: To clarify as CB and GN both have missed the point: Ah but supposedly I was missing some point. If you understood I was joking then you already knew I wasn't actually trying to make any valid point... Link to post Share on other sites
Jynxx 4 Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 GN, Black humour, I dig it. "The point is the tip of your nose (the angle of it?) " CB gives a good example. Would every country give the same account of the past? No. History can be, and is rewritten everyday. I reckon GN and CB will find "The Imperial Cruise , J.Bradley" interesting. Rob, read å¤äº‹è¨˜ and go figure, or talk to a linguist as you wish. Link to post Share on other sites
Yuki's Passion 1 Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 Kojiki and Nihonshoki: read excerpts of them in Uni and was really bored. Link to post Share on other sites
Jynxx 4 Posted October 2, 2010 Share Posted October 2, 2010 Written in Manyo-Kana, it's interesting to see the development of kana writing. How kanji was written. As to the story, it is mythology and ancient folk lore, but that is the interesting bit. You got to put yourself in that mindset. CB, I reckon read it again, your brain has been Japanised Link to post Share on other sites
Metabo Oyaji 71 Posted October 2, 2010 Share Posted October 2, 2010 Should make another run at the å¤äº‹è¨˜ myself at some point. Gave up after two pages last time. (Likewise Finnegan's Wake.) Link to post Share on other sites
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