ippy 66 Posted October 21, 2010 Author Share Posted October 21, 2010 Abd jynxx i wish i could answer your questions, but its way beyond my scope. Maybe ill research tuning for you though Still, if you can bring back a beveled edge and make it normal again for carving im pretty sure your edges are safe at the end of the day. You can just as easily retune them (although its a bit of a pain in the ass ive heard and you can only do it a few times before its seriously compromising your edge) And as for belt grinding, i can only assume it helps open up those clogged up pores in your base. But what would i know? Only tune up i do is hot wax it, and clear the nicks. I treat my base with utter contempt (as evidenced by the 2 or 3 big scratches from riding across crap snow on muju, and the one heavy gouge on it - might get that base ground this season actually). As i say though, my assumption would be that so long as you arent really grinding it every day you could have a perfectly fine deck for a decade or longer. Really the aim i assume is just to help open up those pores again so that they absorb wax as if it was brand new. Not entirely sure if your last point though is a question or a statement Reverse camber decks live and die by their effective edge. When they grip its the idea that the natural curve in the camber helps add a teensy bit more effective edge because the shape automatically molds to the shape of your turn in relation to the snow. (by this i mean the natural reverse camber shape of the board is pretty much the shape your board is trying to make when its on edge in a turn unlike in camber where the natural shape of the board is actually the opposite of the shape of your turn, which is why you get 'loading'). Unfortunately, without contacts, reverse camber has no way of distributing the pressure precisely to those points so it locks in like it would do on a camber deck and thats why it slips out. So yeah, some boards pretty much live or die by their effective edge, whilst some by their contacts (where effective edge becomes just as much a stabilizer as grip). As for the second point, you just need to look at blunt tips on freestyle rigs, or better yet tapered tips on powder. Blunts create less resistance in the air so when you spin around its obviously going to feel a little easier than a non blunt. In addition you wont get caught by momentum so it makes the swing a little more in control so to speak. Also they usually come with a bit of a longer effective edge ... but thats not really the subject here. Taper boards on the other hand (and i know you know all this, just trying to make sure we're on the same page ), create more surface area allowing the board to float. This is balanced by your weight being sat in the back of the deck as well of course, so you have this double effect of a greater surface area (which obviously lowers the density, but also much less turning force being applied to that area because your weight (much like a see-saw) is applied specifically in one direction past the pivot point and towards the ass end of the board anyway, so unless youre a 300lb gorilla putting every inch of weight on that nose, whilst being strapped into your bindings (we are talking a serious nose press here) you couldnt sink this type of deck if you tried! I honestly dont get why i hated physics when i was at school, this stuff is great fun! Link to post Share on other sites
ippy 66 Posted October 21, 2010 Author Share Posted October 21, 2010 ah if only they had that wide version of the jam. I dont think either of those decks are even med-wide, so no chance. I think the goliath comes in a wide version though, but i dunno if evo has them. Nope, just checked Guess youll be waiting for someone to drop one in classifieds to check it out then! Good luck though, the more people on the TBT hype train the better Oh and i might have snagged a riot from a website in korea... but we shall see Link to post Share on other sites
Schneebored 0 Posted October 21, 2010 Share Posted October 21, 2010 Originally Posted By: ippy Taper boards on the other hand (and i know you know all this, just trying to make sure we're on the same page ), create more surface area allowing the board to float. This is balanced by your weight being sat in the back of the deck as well of course, so you have this double effect of a greater surface area (which obviously lowers the density, but also much less turning force being applied to that area because your weight (much like a see-saw) is applied specifically in one direction past the pivot point and towards the ass end of the board anyway, so unless youre a 300lb gorilla putting every inch of weight on that nose, whilst being strapped into your bindings (we are talking a serious nose press here) you couldnt sink this type of deck if you tried! I honestly dont get why i hated physics when i was at school, this stuff is great fun! Hey Ippy, not sure what you mean by 'lowers the density'? greater surface area lowers the pressure not density. The density of the snow would be modified by the snowboard, but it would be an increase in density and the % increase would be dependant on the surface area and load (ie snowboard size and rider weight). Link to post Share on other sites
Tubby Beaver 209 Posted October 21, 2010 Share Posted October 21, 2010 hey Ippy, trying to buy one now but whats the deal with the "International Shipping Quote"? Can't you buy it first THEN get them to send it to you? When filling out my address, the only 2 countries listed is the US and Canada. How did you fill in your shipping address? Link to post Share on other sites
Schneebored 0 Posted October 21, 2010 Share Posted October 21, 2010 Hey TB. Alot of US & Can stores have signed agreements with manufacturers to not ship outside their respective countries. You will have to use one of these forwarding companies (unless you have a mate in that country)such as bongous or viaddress. Just beware alot of the forwarding companies run pretty shonky operations. Link to post Share on other sites
ippy 66 Posted October 21, 2010 Author Share Posted October 21, 2010 haha, now i see what i hated physics at school. I meant pressure Link to post Share on other sites
ippy 66 Posted October 21, 2010 Author Share Posted October 21, 2010 actually tubby, now i think about it they still havent got back to me about the shipping. I actually forgot about that. Maybe you have to wait for them to send you a quote before you can order but lame in truth. Most other sites will give you a quote immediately without all this mucking about. Schnee, this is just evo being rubbish. It applies to their entire range rather than just select brands with vendor agreements (burton/k2/oakley et al). I think its an anti-fraud mechanism more than likely. The big brunt of fraudulent purchases come from international buyers, so theyve put a little hurdle in the way so that people cant buy immediately without leaving a trail so to speak Link to post Share on other sites
Tubby Beaver 209 Posted October 21, 2010 Share Posted October 21, 2010 no actually the board I want they can ship it fine, its just the form on the site. It's weird. Link to post Share on other sites
Tubby Beaver 209 Posted October 21, 2010 Share Posted October 21, 2010 under $300 for the Jam.......but only 40 mins till the offer runs out. If they get back to me then its a go if not....well I'll wait a bit longer! Link to post Share on other sites
ippy 66 Posted October 21, 2010 Author Share Posted October 21, 2010 yeah, its a pain in the ass. I cant honestly believe they havent got back to me yet. Remind them gently that you would have bought it but they put that roadblock in the way, so maybe they could possibly sort of cut you some slack since you did technically beat the deadline. Ive had it sitting waiting since yesterday. Definitely considering it. The site with the riot i ordered seems a wee bit dodgy, so im not paying for a thing unless i can carry it out of the store myself. This one may in fact be my big alternative after all Link to post Share on other sites
Schneebored 0 Posted October 21, 2010 Share Posted October 21, 2010 I would suggest calling them but it is the middle of the night in the states. If you do resort to phone calls try using GMAIL voice it is like SKYPE and will let you call any us number free until the end of the year. Link to post Share on other sites
Tubby Beaver 209 Posted October 21, 2010 Share Posted October 21, 2010 ach its too late now Schneeboard, thanks for the tip though. Just it was a great price, I'll just wait till later. TBH if Ippy hadn't bloody started this thread I would still be happy with the board I have!! Link to post Share on other sites
Jynxx 4 Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 Not wrong there ... I´m just beginning to feel that my board isn´t what it used to be. Better check the bevel on the edge. Undisputed looks like a non-nonsense freeride board. Kinda reminds me of Nitro Pantera ... Link to post Share on other sites
SantaCruz 0 Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 Good luck with the new boards ippy Link to post Share on other sites
ippy 66 Posted October 22, 2010 Author Share Posted October 22, 2010 h**p://www.snowboardingforum.com/buy-sell-snowboard-equipment/27196-bataleon-jam-161w.html (hotlink killed) $245 shipped to your proxy forwarder... Maybe comes to 370 pre import tax or thereabouts? Oh, and got a reply from evo finally. The reason they dick around so much is because they do all the brokering at customs for import. So you wont have duty to pay. Seems a bit off if you ask me, but the bill for shipping the 157 project green was $143 for me (probably different for japan since i assume they have different tariffs - its 20% on TOTAL (shipping + item) cost in korea on anything over $100. So all in that means i could theoretically get that project green for $370 or therabouts (so long as i did it quickly and get them to acknowledge i beat their deadline by 24 hours). Kinda tempting, but really: Sierrascope (156) - All round resort cruiser (indoor FK) Quiver killer (157) - my camber charger/pipe/jump deck Charlie Slasher (164) - Pow charger Kinda only leaves space for a jib deck and a genuine freeride like the enemy+++ (that deck looks really really good, though it might somewhat overlap with the quiver killer since it seems built for the pipe). Ah dang, all i want is a riot or a 2009 evil twin. Oh and have you seen the 2009 ltd twin. Its a cute bumble bee! God i love bataleon. If i see that, im dropping however much cash needs to be dropped on it Link to post Share on other sites
Jynxx 4 Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 You must be going nuts with 3 decks and no snow. What´s it like on the Charlie Slasher? Ideal Setback? Link to post Share on other sites
ippy 66 Posted October 22, 2010 Author Share Posted October 22, 2010 i wish i could tell you Probably just gonna run centered on it though, the float is going to blow my mind i suspect anyway. First time on a real genuine powder deck so i think ill save it for a real powder day. I know for sure though i'll be bringing it to japan (i doubt ill even break it out in korea unless something really shocking happens this year). Ah well, i discovered an indoor place in bucheon near seoul the other week, so ill head up there next saturday and see how it is. The place also has a nice kicker with an airbag, so it's going to be like christmas for me! I wish i found out about it earlier on though, it could have helped overcoming my natural self preservation fears Link to post Share on other sites
Jynxx 4 Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 Kicker with airbag ! Great! Love to see more of that everywere. Tell us what it´s like in Korea. Never imagined about Korea and the indoor scene. I think you set yourself up for all conditions. I´m just wondering, how much difference a powder dedicated board will make compared to a all (big) mountain board, about 163 length. (We really felt like we needed something long to handle the fresh snow, ice, crud, up on the glaciers.) When I say powder dedicated board, I´m not talking swallowtail- that I imagine, will be a different ride. (wouldn´t it be nice to try one in Niseko) Link to post Share on other sites
ippy 66 Posted October 22, 2010 Author Share Posted October 22, 2010 I think its really the rocker and taper on it thats making it pretty pow specific. 20mm taper is pretty heavy and about the same as on the malolo if i remember right. In fact almost everything is the same except the malolo is s-rocker, and charlie is pow-fk (zero camber but rocker at nose). I reckon as i say, youd need some serious force on the wrong side of your bindings to push either of those noses into the snow, whereas centered on a big camber deck its going to lock in more because of the front contacts, youll have less chance of it bobbling over nobbly bits (FK flies over bobbles in the snow, its one of its big annoyances in truth - it gets OWNED by chop ), and of course the surface area means you'll have to apply more *pressure* to sink the board in than on a non tapered equivalent deck. Basically all the good stuff that makes a pow deck a pow deck. Obviously the malolo and slasher are hybrids though, and are built for more resort levels of pow compared to swallow tails, so the difference wont be as insane as getting on a fish or a notch or some of those crazy ass japanese designs... to wit: But it will still be virtually impossible to sink the nose without deliberately trying to. On a standard camber charger thats a much more likely feat though. Still, something like an undisputed or even some of the hybrid rockers out there are going to seriously force you to question that boundary. Rocker makes things overlap a bit more than it probably did a few years ago for sure, so maybe the difference between a charlie slasher and a black snowboard of death on standard resort pow might be exaggerated. Likely theyll both feel freaking insane. But the heavier the pow, the more the charlie is going to shine against it i reckon. Anyway, s-rocker and pow-fk so you can see what im talking about Pow FK: S-Rocker Link to post Share on other sites
Jynxx 4 Posted October 23, 2010 Share Posted October 23, 2010 Thanks Ippy for your thoughts. F*** me bloody expensive boards! Hey, doesn´t the MantaRay looks exactly like Jones `Hovercraft´ powder board!? At $390 for the Hovercraft, are these guys serious asking $1500 Link to post Share on other sites
ippy 66 Posted October 23, 2010 Author Share Posted October 23, 2010 actually i never noticed that before Good call! i wonder if it was an unmentioned collaboration (ie act of theft ) Link to post Share on other sites
Jynxx 4 Posted October 23, 2010 Share Posted October 23, 2010 About the nose sinking in pow. My Salomon Burner 157 doesn´t have a rocker in the tip. It has an inch setback. I did have some nose digs when just after making a quick turn. Lean back a little - nose lifts - turn - nose digs in - flip. It comes from shifting my weight to the front a little after the turn. Sometimes I sink the nose when I´m just about to take off. Sometimes when I am landing where its a little steep, not used to land on my back leg. It really is a balancing job on pow especially when the speed is not there. My thoughts are, that another 6 or so centimeters on the nose with rocker will help in pow. But the chop situation - I hope it blasts through. Link to post Share on other sites
Tex 3 Posted October 23, 2010 Share Posted October 23, 2010 1500 damn that thing would want to do more than ride snow LOL Originally Posted By: ippy actually i never noticed that before Good call! i wonder if it was an unmentioned collaboration (ie act of theft ) It's all about R&D ippy... Ripoff Design Link to post Share on other sites
ippy 66 Posted October 23, 2010 Author Share Posted October 23, 2010 Snowboarding tech has definitely been on a drive to sell lots more decks by convincing us we all need a quiver (we don't dammit! (says the dude with three capita sticks and trying to find a riot to add to the collection)). If there's one message i would LOVE to put in massive bold letters throughout the guide (and tried to mention it in the intro... which er you can find on page 7 ), is that YOU DON'T NEED A NEW BOARD!!! THE ONE YOU'VE GOT IS PROBABLY FINE!!! But its that 'probably' that lets in the demons! As i said, you can do anything on any deck at all, its just some decks are going to give you an easier time at some stuff. Its not just a pow thing though, you're going to have a hell of a lot easier buttering on a deck with raised contacts, than one without. Same with pressing on a noodle, same with carving on a feeride, same with getting pop on a camber deck with a reinforce tail... the list is long. But the point is, snowboard is selling the most expensive tech to people that don't really need it by suggesting one big important thing: this will make snowboarding easier, more forgiving, and fun for you. And in many of the earlier parts of the learning curve reverse camber really does feel easier. And of course thats why its appealing to people who dont really need expensive boards. It makes tricks easier to land, it makes 'carves' easier to ride (carves just arent the same on reverse camber, its much more like a faster version of linking turns rather than a full engaging of your edges), it makes the early part of almost any technique more forgiving and conveys different types of riding compared to camber (i already mentioned carving taking on a slightly different sense, but you might as well add in 'pop' to that, since its much more about you launching the board rather than the board launching you as it does when you load camber). So in a sense it lets you do everything you can do easier than on camber, but sometimes although the language is the same, its often not quite the same thing In a sense its selling snowboards based on this myth of forgiveness. Not that it doesnt have a basis in reality. It is an absolute fact (cast iron id say) that if you want to learn to butter, its going to be way easier without contacts catching. But if you want to butter like a pro, those edge catches that forced you to learn to shift your weight will benefit you when you want to develop ever wilder techniques that require a bit more control over your weight and your edges than you might have gotten from the initially easier ride. Really, to be a good boarder, youve got to learn the whole damn thing. You need control, skill with your edges, and of course a bit of craft at throwing around your deck. Reverse can teach you all that, (but half of it is gonna suck when you have to get through your wall because the deck was letting you pull through some of the easier stuff demotivating you from bothering to progress). Camber can also teach you all that (but half of it is gonna suck when you keep getting spanked by your contacts, demotivating you and having you go off and do something more fun than faceplanting instead of learning to fix up your technique). Basically, its all bullsh*t at the end of the day Thats really the message i was trying to get across with 90/10 Link to post Share on other sites
ippy 66 Posted October 23, 2010 Author Share Posted October 23, 2010 Originally Posted By: Tex 1500 damn that thing would want to do more than ride snow LOL Originally Posted By: ippy actually i never noticed that before Good call! i wonder if it was an unmentioned collaboration (ie act of theft ) It's all about R&D ippy... Ripoff Design hah! very true Still, how much is the Jones? 400? compared to the insanely high price manta! har! im siding with the thiefs Link to post Share on other sites
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