Sexism in Japan

[grungy-gonads 54]

Women getting a better deal of late?

Or no change?

Couldn't think of anything more controversial on short notice...

[brit-gob 9]

Rubbish thread title gg.

I predict, fail!

[grungy-gonads 54]

[Go Native 70]

I will comment on this but unfortunately I actually do have to do some work from time to time....later.

[thursday 1]

[klingon 10]

Quote:

MYTH: Japan is a sexist country.

(2.7.1) sexism in Japan: the American propaganda
--- Japanese men are sexist.
--- Japanese women are mistreated.
--- Japan is one of the most sexist countries in the world.

(2.7.2) sexism in Japan: the truth
THE TRUTH: sexism in Japan is not much worse than in the USA.

=--------------------------------------------------------------------
---- (2.7.1) sexism in Japan: the American propaganda

One of the most common themes in US media coverage of Japan is
"Japan is a sexist country".

Edwin O. Reischauer has been the biggest contributor to the
"sexist Japan" image in the USA. In his book "The Japanese
Today" (1995) Reischauer emphasizes sexism to portray Japan as
backward and exotic.

"Chapter 17 Women" opens as follows: "The position of women in
Japanese society is one of the major differences between it and
American society and a subject that is likely to raise
indignation in the West. Japanese men are blatantly male
chauvinists and women seem shamefully exploited and suppressed."

in the last 20 years or so while I've paid close attention to
the US media portrayals of Japan, I have rarely seen a
positive coverage in reports relating to the issues of
relationship between the sexes, sexism, marriage and dating
practices, etc.
(it's possible to report positively: about progress
being made in fighting sexism, about the low divorce
rate and the secrets of Japanese marital success, about
characteristic courtship customs, etc.)

on the other hand, I've seen numerous negative reports.
some recent examples:

--- Newsweek, "Take a Hike, Hiroshi", August 10, 1992, (2 pages).
headline: "Japan's War of the Sexes is heating up ---
because Japan's women are fed up. A report from the front".
the caption to a photograph of 4 young Japanese men
reads, "Self-centered, boorish and predictable? Young
men relax in a resort town".

--- TIME, "Fighting Off HANAYOME BUSOKU", March 21, 1988.
headline: "Villagers cope with a shortage of brides by
recruiting overseas"
"... one reason Japanese women head for the cities is
their inferior position in small-town families. Unless
the status of rural women is elevated, ..."

THE TRUTH: recruiting mail order brides from Asia is a
practice that is much more common in the rich western
nations than in Japan. it is unfair that these
magazines draw attention to mail order brides in Japan,
while neglecting the practice (and its problems) in the
USA and other nations.

--- TIME, "Tying the knot, Japanese style", April 17, 1989.
headline: "A wedding can still be a feast of conspicuous
consumption".
a graph entitled "PRICELY PACKAGE --- Typical costs of a
fancy wedding".
a photograph of a couple: she is dressed in a western
wedding dress; he is dressed like a soldier
(very unusual for a Japanese wedding);
caption: "In a mist of dry ice at a bridal palace
in Tokyo, the happy couple descend to greet
their guests"; together they look very silly.

the hidden message is clear: we know Japanese are rich,
but Japanese spend their money in such stupid ways.

THE TRUTH: a typical expensive Japanese wedding costs no more
than a typical expensive American wedding.

if your main source of information on Japan is mainstream
US media (and movies), then you may actually believe what
has been drummed into your head:
--- Japanese men are sexist.
--- Japanese women are mistreated.
--- Japan is one of the most sexist countries in the world.

often Americans start telling me something like, "I know you're
Japanese, and so I understand that you can be a bit sexist, ..."
at which point I stop them, "whaaat? what have I done or said
which indicates that I'm being sexist?"
and they can't cite even a tiny example.

(2.7.2) sexism in Japan: the truth

THE TRUTH: sexism in Japan is not much worse than in the USA.

I very much doubt how meaningful it is to compare two
cultures with different histories, and say which one is "more
sexist". To look at superficial differences and drawing
conclusions from them is ludicrous. Is the common practice of
male genital mutilation at birth in the USA (circumcision) a
sign of backwardness? Do the current debates over abortion and
prayer in schools indicate that Americans are too backward to
understand the modern concept of separation of church and state?

Moreover, even by purely Western standards, sexism in Japan is
not much worse than in the USA, as indicated by the following.

(1) sexual violence/harassment against women in the USA is much
more frequent/severe, as compared to in Japan. The number of
reported rapes (per 100,000 women, 1987-89) is 118 in the USA
and 5 in Japan ("Human Development Report 1994" by
U.N._Development Programme).

(2) In Japan the wife is usually more dominant than the husband
in a married couple (especially regarding financial matters).
Even Reischauer, who is obsessed with portraying the Japanese as
sexist, admits this.

(3) Female politician DOI Takako was once the head of the Japan
Socialist Party (JSP), and is now the head of the Lower House
(shuu-giin-gichou). Consider that the current head of JSP
(Murayama) is the prime minister of Japan, and that the Japanese
"head of the Lower House" corresponds to the US Speaker of the
House. Conclusion: Japan is much closer to having a female
national political leader than the USA is.

(4) Male vs. female wage disparity. female wages (as % of male
wages, 1990-92): Sweden_90, Norway_87, France_81, Germany_78,
UK_70, Belgium_64, Canada_63, USA_59, Japan_51 ("Human
Development Report 1994", U.N.D.P.).

One factor in The New York Times and others' compulsive
portrayal of Japan as a sexist country is the US backlash
against feminism. About wage disparity (point (4) above), the
USA may have things to learn from the European nations where
gender equality has been more successful. But instead, these
newspapers report "sexist Japan" to give the message of assurance
and conservatism: "Look at how sexist the Japanese are. We've
gone far enough in the feminism movement. In fact, we've
probably gone too far. We must shift our attention from feminism
to more urgent matters, such as the Japanese economic threat."

American compulsion to portray Asian cultures as sexist is also
seen in "The Joy Luck Club", a film filled with racial/ethnic
prejudice against Asia and racially-Asian men.

Interesting that.

Hmmm. Sometimes I feel it most certainly is, but then again women in quite a few situations are very strong in Japan. Women do generally seem more willing to be used as 'sex objects' here though don't you think.

[Tubby Beaver 209]

Originally Posted By: klingon

]

Interesting that.

Hmmm. Sometimes I feel it most certainly is, but then again women in quite a few situations are very strong in Japan. Women do generally seem more willing to be used as 'sex objects' here though don't you think.

yeah I like Japan too

[Go Native 70]

I must admit that I've found the status of women in Japan to be little different to what is was, in somewhere like Australia, back in about the 1950's. A fair portion of women do not aspire to successful careers as they fully intend to be housewives after marriage and if not quite then almost certainly after having a child. In almost every measure you can use women do not appear to have the same opportunities as men. Whether it be pay parity with men, the number of women on company boards or in upper levels of management, the number of women in politics or just about any other measure you can think of. Sexual harassment in the workplace, at least by western standards, appears to be rampant. So I'd say by any measure of our western standards Japan is a very sexist country where women are practically 2nd class citizens with nowhere near the opportunities that men accept for granted.

 

That all said, women in this country never really had a feminist revolution. Well at least not like what occurred in the west. You don't exactly see or hear them rallying against all the sexism that a western person like myself perceives there to be. Sure there's a few who do but it's hardly a huge groundswell involving large portions of the female population. Many in fact seem more than happy to accept the roles that this society sets for them. That sort of acceptance is prevalent throughout this society though whether it be men or women as far as I can tell. So if the women aren't screaming out for change how well do our western measures to assess sexism apply to this society? Hard to say really. Personally I'm a strong believer in a concept of universal human rights which don't discriminate on things like race, sex, sexual orientation, religion, etc and these rights should apply to all people regardless of the country they live in.

 

Still there are undoubtedly some benefits when a fair portion of the population drops out of the workforce after marriage. It means that unemployment remains low and much of the male population at least can find jobs. I'd argue many of the social issues we see in the west are due to men not being able to gain employment. When you don't have to compete with a fair portion of the population for a job (especially what some of the ladies on here may describe as the smarter portion ) it makes it much easier to find employment.

 

How's that for a start GG?

[gerard 6]

Originally Posted By: klingon

Quote:

MYTH: Japan is a sexist country.

(2.7.1) sexism in Japan: the American propaganda
--- Japanese men are sexist.
--- Japanese women are mistreated.
--- Japan is one of the most sexist countries in the world.

(2.7.2) sexism in Japan: the truth
THE TRUTH: sexism in Japan is not much worse than in the USA.

(2.7.1) sexism in Japan: the American propaganda

One of the most common themes in US media coverage of Japan is
"Japan is a sexist country"............

Interesting that.

Hmmm. Sometimes I feel it most certainly is, but then again women in quite a few situations are very strong in Japan. Women do generally seem more willing to be used as 'sex objects' here though don't you think.

Yeah, that about sums it up. To a large extent it's just another Japan myth. There's no dought that roles are divided more here than in the west though. Japna's a little sexist but in a lot of ways women have it better than men.

[Go Native 70]

In what ways would that be ger?

[gerard 6]

Like not being expected to work like a dog to support your family while your wife goes for "cake sets" with her friends in the afternoon for one thing. (Not that I have to work like a dog and my wife works too. She enjoys it strangely.)

[Mantas 3]

Originally Posted By: Go Native

How's that for a start GG?

Not bad, not bad.. Strangely I agree.

Western values aren't universal. Some people need to be reminded of that.
If they are happy in their roles and aren't crying out for change then who are we to judge? If you were a woman living under the rule of the Taliban it would be a different story. Example, women are not permitted to see a male doctor but there a very few female doctors in Afghanistan because women are not permitted to go to collage. Now that's discrimination, sexism, human rights violation all rolled into one.

[Go Native 70]

The issue here though is for the women who don't want to follow the path that society expects of them. For them to reach high level management positions in business or politics is an incredible uphill battle and they often must forgo either marriage or having children to make it work. The fact that the majority appear to acquiesce to the norms does not mean all are happy to do this and I think it's more to do with Japanese society as a whole where few people openly speak out about anything be they male or female. Women here do not have the same opportunities as men, simple as that.

[best skier in hakuba 5]

They control all the money in a household though.

Ever seen a grown man who earns 10 million yen a year begging his wife for a kozukai (pocked money). Such control!

[Go Native 70]

That's only because most of the men here accept their roles in society as well. And just because most women are given some control over household finances doesn't mean much to those who actually want to have successful careers of their own. There are obviously jobs out there for women but they are mostly the typical stereotypical female jobs like secretaries and nurses. There are a few entreprenarial women here who've been very successful but generally you'd really struggle to find hardly any on the boards of publicly listed companies. It's all fine for the women who are happy to be housewives and manage houshold finances but not so good if you want more from life than this.

[Tubby Beaver 209]

There are a high number of women here though, that want to be housewives. I was astounded by my students when I'd ask them what they wanted to be and a huge number of young women ALL wanted to be a housewife.

[Go Native 70]

The brainwashing starts in the schools very early and most are well indoctrinated by their teens. As I stated earlier most of them do seem pretty happy with their lot in life but is that just because Japanese women are less ambitious than women from western countries or is it because of the brainwashing and pressure to conform to the norms of the society?

[xxx 2]

If that is "brainwashing", isn't pressuring women to go out and have careers just brainwashing the other way?

[gerard 6]

The point of that quote from Klingon was that

1. Japan may be a little sexist but it's not actually that far behind Westernized countries

2. The west likes to grossly exaggerate Japan as being really really sexist, which it isn't.

 

That's pretty much accurate. GN, stop exaggerating. "Brainwashing", "indoctrination"... (Actually indoctrination's not a bad word, but anyway...)

 

..............Bottom line is that job equality is the law here in Japan. It doesn't always work out that way, sure, but it IS the law. Obviously some sectors appeal more to men and other's to women but can you think of another country that has a lot of women in politics or as CEOs? Fortunately women don't have to be just secretaries and nurses in Japan. I've been teaching at med school for almost 10 years and the numbers are around even. Actually this year my class is around 2/3 women.

[Tubby Beaver 209]

Originally Posted By: ger

Fortunately women don't have to be just secretaries and nurses in Japan.

of course not Ger, they can be Cooks, cleaners, bar maids, waitresses, milk nurses......

[Go Native 70]

Originally Posted By: ger

The point of that quote from Klingon was that
1. Japan may be a little sexist but it's not actually that far behind Westernized countries
2. The west likes to grossly exaggerate Japan as being really really sexist, which it isn't.

That's pretty much accurate. GN, stop exaggerating. "Brainwashing", "indoctrination"... (Actually indoctrination's not a bad word, but anyway...)

..............Bottom line is that job equality is the law here in Japan. It doesn't always work out that way, sure, but it IS the law. Obviously some sectors appeal more to men and other's to women but can you think of another country that has a lot of women in politics or as CEOs? Fortunately women don't have to be just secretaries and nurses in Japan. I've been teaching at med school for almost 10 years and the numbers are around even. Actually this year my class is around 2/3 women.

Quite a few countries have brought in legislation to up the percentage of women in politics and Norway has even brought in legislation that requires all publicly listed companies to have at least 40% of board members be women. You could look at just about any other developed nation and find more women as CEO's or in politics than here. Please don't for a second attempt to suggest that women have anywhere near the same opportunities as men in this country. Whether or not you think it's ok is one matter but let's not suggest for a second that there's anything like equality of the sexes here.

So you teach in a med school. Still how many who live here who've gone to see a doctor have been seen by a female doctor? Still very few and far between in my experience.

And I strongly believe that there is brainwashing in this country. It's a long subtle process started in schools, the media and most marketing and advertising. Womens roles are defined through these mediums. It used to happen in the West as well but at least in Australia it has mostly been wiped out these days. The brainwashing here is not just for women either, men are groomed for their role in society from a very young age just as much. This is one of the most unquestioning societies I've ever experienced. I've certainly never been anywhere before where people so blindly accept authority.

[snowdude 44]

Interesting this topic, I guess then my wife would be considered unique???

She is Japanese but works full time, in fact she is in a management position and on the board of directors, and absolutely hates to be a housewife.

But it is true a lot of woman do seem to want to be housewives, when I used to teach I got the same responses from quite a few saying that they just want to be housewives.

[big-will 7]

Quote:

I've certainly never been anywhere before where people so blindly accept authority.

Would you prefer somewhere where by default people don't seem to respect it?

[Go Native 70]

In a country of over 120 million there's going to probably be 100's of thousands of exceptions to the rule out there. I'm not saying it's all bad here or that women choosing to be housewives is a bad thing at all but whether or not it's just imposing our western views on a different culture there's no getting away from the fact that women here are still mostly expected to fulfill a very traditional role. There is very well documented discrimination in the workplace here where men are fast tracked into management positions and women are not and women who are pregnant are all but fired or whose positions are made untenable. We all know that this is a country where change comes ever so slowly and it's no different with equality of the sexes. Some like to think of it as a part of the Japanese way and for some reason should be preserved as though the culture here is incredibly unique. Well I don't think the way women are treated here is all that unique at all. In the west women were treated in a very similar way through much of our history. Being here is like looking back in time on what it was like for women in Aus 40 or so years ago. There's nothing unique about the way Japanese women are treated it's just now mostly outdated as much of the rest of the developed world has moved on a bit

[rach 1]

I can't see what's so wrong with being or wanting to be 'a housewife'. I have some Japanese friends who are housewives and they LOVE their life. They get a ton of time to do what they want, they control money, they pretty much have the most say in how the kids are brought up. They certainly don't sit at home doing nothing with no responsibilities, in fact that have really big responsibilities, but they enjoy it.

 

Not the way I live but I can see why it is appealing to some and don't see it as brainwashing any more than cultural things going on in other societies.