Sexism in Japan

[rach 1]

Originally Posted By: Go Native

there's no getting away from the fact that women here are still mostly expected to fulfill a very traditional role.

So are men.

[gerard 6]

Originally Posted By: Go Native

In a country of over 120 million there's going to probably be 100's of thousands of exceptions to the rule out there. I'm not saying it's all bad here or that women choosing to be housewives is a bad thing at all but whether or not it's just imposing our western views on a different culture there's no getting away from the fact that women here are still mostly expected to fulfill a very traditional role. There is very well documented discrimination in the workplace here where men are fast tracked into management positions and women are not and women who are pregnant are all but fired or whose positions are made untenable. We all know that this is a country where change comes ever so slowly and it's no different with equality of the sexes. Some like to think of it as a part of the Japanese way and for some reason should be preserved as though the culture here is incredibly unique. Well I don't think the way women are treated here is all that unique at all. In the west women were treated in a very similar way through much of our history. Being here is like looking back in time on what it was like for women in Aus 40 or so years ago. There's nothing unique about the way Japanese women are treated it's just now mostly outdated as much of the rest of the developed world has moved on a bit

Yeah, some of those things bother me about Japan too. Mainly the blind acceptance of authority and the status quo (as compared to a country like Canada)... But I still absolutely think the whole Japan sexism thing is overblown by Western media and I really don't know why. I think media (in most countries probably) just like to harp on stereotypes. Maybe Norway is much more "equal" but to say that "women don't have near the same opportunities as men" is oversimplistic and inacurate. They have different oportunities. If you look at it from a strictly western perspective it looks like Japan is sexist but I think you have to look a little deeper. Take a bank for example. You walk in, you see mainly young female bank tellers while older men are sitting in the back in managerial positions. So you think "Wow, banking is sexist. Japan's sexist". WHOA back up! There IS equal opportunity in Japan. That's the law and it applies to banks too. This is basically how it works ((...at a couple of banks that I know of anyway, but I shouldn't assume it's exactly the same everywhere)). Bank employees choose a stream: They can opt for the managerial track which means they will be transferred every couple of years and have to take various courses and tests with the assumption that they will be promoted; or they can take the other route which means they won't have to be transferred around much and so on but they won't get promoted and they'll probably be tellers as long as they work there. Now in the old day when Japan was a lot more sexist employees may have been streamed based on sex. Now of course they can choose since Japan has equal opportunity for men and women. That's the law at least. Now, I know women in both streams but the majority opt for the latter one because they can quit with no hard feelings in case they want to be stay-at-home Moms for a period of time or whatever, plus it's just easier. Guys can choose too of course but any guy who would say, 'No I just want to be a bank teller and live in the same town forever and not get promoted' would be seen as a total wanker. That's not the law, it's just what society expects.

In a lot of ways women, especially young women have it a lot easier than guys. Before marriage guys have to get on the right track with work and start saving for their future so that they can eventually have a family, house, etc. etc. Women on the other hand (outside of the eikaiwa industry, teaching or other real career track positions) can enjoy hobbies, spend their spare money on a Volkwagan Polo or something and enjoy life a lot more. Now that probably IS sexist but to say that women are have it much worse than guys and are just second-class citizens or something like that isn't true.

@ Tubby

[gerard 6]

And yeah, what Rach said too.

[Go Native 70]

Totally agree men too are have roles they are meant to fulfil. Everyone in this society seems to have roles they are meant to fulfil. I also see nothing wrong with women wanting to be housewives. I think it actually has a lot of benefits. I do see a lot of impediments though for women and men who don't want follow the norms and expectations of this society. Japan is certainly much more about obligations to community, society and family than the individual. This has it's benefits and issues. In the west I do think there is a lot more selfish attitudes of the rights of the individual and this too has a lot of issues as well as some benefits. I think we can all agree it's very different here to what most of us would be used to in our home countries. On the face of it from our perspective Japan is a pretty sexist nation but that is only from our perspective.

[Mantas 3]

Originally Posted By: rach

I can't see what's so wrong with being or wanting to be 'a housewife'.

Rach, I'll never understand why women under sell themselves as ' just a house wife' I often wonder if the expectation to be something more comes from other women more so than men.
I can tell you from personal experience that being a house wife is very challenging. This week my wife is away with work and I am IT. Mum, Dad, cook, cleaner, homework helper etc. I have no outside help. Watching my kids walk off to school in the morning, smartly dressed in clean uniforms with a packed lunch and homework all done, is far more satisfying than a lot of things I do at work.

[Tubby Beaver 209]

Originally Posted By: rach

I can't see what's so wrong with being or wanting to be 'a housewife'. I have some Japanese friends who are housewives and they LOVE their life. They get a ton of time to do what they want, they control money, they pretty much have the most say in how the kids are brought up. They certainly don't sit at home doing nothing with no responsibilities, in fact that have really big responsibilities, but they enjoy it.

Not the way I live but I can see why it is appealing to some and don't see it as brainwashing any more than cultural things going on in other societies.

I'd love to be a stay at home Dad! I don't think its bad eitherm just that when I first got here I was shocked at hearing that because back home we'd been bombarded with equal opportunites and women back home were adamant that they wanted to work more.

I think it'd be great, just wish my mrs had a great job (financially...she loves her job, but pay is low) and I didn't need to work.

[Go Native 70]

I don't know I've had quite a few days of staying home and looking after our little girl whilst mum is working and it's fun enough now and again but I wouldn't want to do it full-time. My wife definitely wouldn't want to do it full-time either. It can get incredibly boring and the big thing can be missing out on the social interactions you have at work. That's a big thing for my wife. All I can say is thank god for day care!

[Tubby Beaver 209]

I don't have any social interactions at work......I chip away at my self esteem little by little by singing the Hokey Kokey and the bloody Hello Song to 6-12 yr olds!

 

Bring on the nappy changing!!

[brit-gob 9]

TB

[indosnm 0]

Originally Posted By: Mantas

Watching my kids walk off to school in the morning, smartly dressed in clean uniforms with a packed lunch and homework all done, is far more satisfying than a lot of things I do at work.

Thank god for cheese & Vegemite sangas eh!
So no surf this week in the am?

The Japanese way rubbed off on me and a few times at work I have told the ladies to get some coffee or tea & how do you reckon that went down?

[Mantas 3]

It's a wonder they didn't haul your arse up in front of the sexual discrimination board, it wouldn't take much more than that these days.

 

Little kids can be hard work. I can understand why women can go a little nuts stuck at home with them all day. When they get a little bit older they can do more things with you, surfing, snowboarding, fishing, bike riding, football ect. It all becomes a lot more fun.

 

Also they spend most days at school

[gerard 6]

Originally Posted By: Indo

The Japanese way rubbed off on me and a few times at work I have told the ladies to get some coffee or tea & how do you reckon that went down?

So you used to do that in Japan, then? --ã®ã©ãŒæ¸‡ã„ã¦ã„るよ。ãŠèŒ¶ã¤ã‘ã¦ã€‚-- Something like that? I reckon I'd get a few strange looks if I tried that here.

[brit-gob 9]

I'd get a few comments here too.

[rach 1]

I'd tell you to go make it yourself. And make me one while you're at it.

[bobby12 0]

Japanese typical work environment is extremely sexist by our western definitions. You dont have to be an employee to see that you can see it as a customer if you look around the shop/office etc and see what roles people are playing.

 

However, I do not think it is necessarily so bad. Its different but it works OK and people seem OK with it here, so who are we to impose our values. Western societies are far from utopia, and I know where I prefer to live.

[rach 1]

My offie isn't.

 

Perhaps it's not typical and I'm happy about that.

[loaf of bread 0]

You mean office or the local off-licence?