April 25 ANZAC Day

[ausi ski bum 1]

I was born in 1961 and as a young kid and teen I watched the Anzacs parade in Perth with the much younger WW2 vets marching proud, today the WW2 vets look like the Anzacs did back then. I always felt ANZAC Day was the real Australia Day.

 

Today my kids are in the Navy and RAAF and I still watch the parades with pride and a heavy heart. Its sad that we have to have this day but Australia is what it is today because of the ANZACS, true mateship, a sence of community and doing the right thing. I find however the greatest pride in how the teens and young people of today view ANZAC day as the most significant day in Australia, there was a time not long ago that ANZAC Day was a fading memory but the Young People of Australia today... Get It, they look back at these distant wars and understand people their own age died to ensure we have the life we do today.

 

My kids have marched for years as Cadets and now in the military, they always stand tall and take this day so seriously, they dont see it as a duty but a need to pay their respect and be proud to carry on the Australian spirit. Anzac Day is in very safe hands, the Gen Y really do have more understanding and pride in ANZAC day than many of those before them.

 

I will be at the Dawn Service and the March again this year, Lest We Forget.

 

And Thank You.

[HelperElfMissy 42]

With you on this ASB,

except I think it was not that the generation previous did not care or failed to 'get it' ... I think it was that they were taught by parents who may have been more of the pot smoking, free thinking, make love not war generation.

 

Our children are a product of the society in which they are raised and the people they are raised by. But I am thankful to see a resurgence in gratitude for the sacrifice the ANZACS of all conflicts have made for our futures.

[Mantas 3]

I love that fact that every year I learn a new story about some campaigns and heroics that I'd never heard of before. Spielberg and Hank's The Pacific is a great example. Although I had a vague idea of what happened, the uncensored and graphic account of specific battles is incredible.

[Go Native 70]

It is of interest to me as to why ANZAC day has seen such a resurgence in popularity. My own opinion is that it was due to a resurgence in patriotism/nationalism under the previous fascist regime that was the Howard government. Just like in the US the Howard government drummed up nationalistic fervor in order to justify joining in the attack on Iraq, they also used it to justify persecution of asylum seekers and refugees and further reduce individual rights in the war on terror. Similarly to the US there became this attitude of you're either with us or against us, a real division in Aus society of those considered Australian or un-Australian. And going to ANZAC day definitely became a being part of being Australian. So with nationalistic fervor beating in their hearts all those good little patriotic Aussies started turning up to the ANZAC day marches to prove just how patriotic they are.

For so many of these numbnuts though it's the turning up which is the only significant thing to them. Actually showing respect, a concept they probably don't even understand, is beyond them and they spend most of the day drinking and ending up in fights and the like. This is what happens when nationalism is stirred up, it appeals very much to the lowest common denominators in society.

[Mantas 3]

[Go Native 70]

Well what's your take on it Mantas? Why has ANZAC day seen a resurgence in popularity over the last 10-15 years? Why have Aussies suddenly got a new found interest in this day even though all the actual ANZACs are now dead and gone? I'm certainly not the only person who believes the recent resurgence in popularity is purely and simply linked to a resurgence in patriotism which is often signified by many participants at marches and ceremonies draping themselves in Aussie flags and even having them painted on their faces. Often more reminiscent of an international rugby match than a solemn occasion to remember fallen soldiers. How about all the incidents of drunken behaviour at ANZAC cove over recent years? It's more like a massive gathering of bogans at a rock concert than anything else. If you have a different take on it let me know.

[ausi ski bum 1]

I doubt that is the case GN, a lot is said about the current youth but they live in a generation where the loss of members of the military is real, this is the first time in 30-40 years that this is the case so they have a connection with the past that my generation didn't.

 

I have a house full of Young people at times most were Air Force Cadets and now many of these are in the military but they genuinely respected the ANZACS and polatics had little to do with this.

[Go Native 70]

Extremely few Aussies have died in conflicts overseas recently, especially compared to conflicts such as the world wars, Vietnam, etc. As a percentage of the population I'd think there are less Aussies in the military now than at just about any other time in our history so not sure if that argument would hold up ASB.

[Mantas 3]

Originally Posted By: Go Native

. If you have a different take on it let me know.

You don't want to know.

Mate, we went over this last year (and no doubt again next year).
Despite having half a dozen people from all over Australia telling you things contrary to your opion, you disregarded us all because you said that we were all part of a global jet setting crew and therefore didn't really know what was going on in our own country.
So here's what I'll do. I'll go down to Cronulla and track down the instigaters of the Cronulla 'race' riot and ask them for thier opinion on the increasing popularity of ANZAC day, and then you will get the answers that your so desperately seeking.

[Go Native 70]

Well you can't seem to come up with any real reason why this event gained so much in popularity. All you could come up with last year were the reasons you go, not why so many more go now than there used to be. You've never come up with an explanation for that. Maybe because you don't want to know?

[Mantas 3]

Do you really think the 10000 people that travel half way around the world to

Golipoli Turkey are flag waving dumb arses?

What about the Kokoda track? Over 5000 people did it last year, up from a few hundred 10 years ago. 10 days in the jungle. Are ignorant flag waving dumb arses too?

 

My take.

Today are lives are really really easy. We are a bunch of pansey arsed, soft, fragile creatures. The deeds of those heroic men are held in increasing awe as time goes on. Also, you said it yourself. There are no more ANZACs left. One ANZAC soldier from 1915 now has maybe a hundred offspring. ALL of them want to make sure that their great grandfathers deeds are not forgotten. Simple really, but hey, you believe what you want.

[Go Native 70]

It's not that they are all dumb arses but why they have in recent years increasingly felt the need to go ANZAC day events? What has caused Aussies in increasing numbers to commemorate the day? Your argument about an increasing amount of offspring would hold up if the event had increased in numbers all the way through from when it started in the '20's but it didn't. In the late 70's into the 80's it all but died away with very few other than those who served going to the event. Later through the 90's though it increased in popularity again. I don't believe this was because Aussies suddenly became a more caring and reflective people. In fact if anything Aussies became more selfish and self centered than ever in the aftermath of the recession we had to have. Then we got Howard who started to throw us into conflicts in support of US policy. Since Vietnam governments have realised how important propaganda and patriotism is for the populace to continue to support conflicts in faraway nations that don't affect peoples daily lives. Howard started bringing back raising the flag and national anthem in schools and all sorts of other patriotic things to get patriotic fervor going. And we started a similar thing like in the US that if you didn't support the wars this meant you were un-Australian and against our troops. Those that fell for all the propaganda had to start overtly proving just how patriotic they are. Fervent patriotism requires patriotic acts. Attending ANZAC day and going to ANZAC cove is a perfect way to do this. I don't like it myself because I don't like patriotism but I'm sure many Australians like yourself think it's great.

Personally I'm glad my little girl won't ever be subject to it all

[foreversnow 5]

We wont be able to make it to the dawn services tomorrow (first time in years) due to Mr Snowhunters back injury.

 

I watch my dad every Anzac take out his medals and proudly pin them on his shirt. Out come the war stories which is about the only time he talks about the war. Tomorrow we will sit and watch the ANZAC parades on the TV and be very thankful for our lifestyle today.

 

LEST WE FORGET - Also time to think of our soliders still serving in Iraq and Afghanistan.

[indosnm 0]

Originally Posted By: Go Native

Personally I'm glad my little girl won't ever be subject to it all

Whatever you think mate, and that's great.. We all have our own opinions. Though the picture you paint of Australia makes it seem like a shithole.
I did the reverse of you (moving from Jp to OZ) and yeah, there are bad things about the place (though they hardly affect ne) but there are about everywhere.
One thing that gets old is everytime a topic of Aussie comes up we all just know that you will be on the keyboard having your biatch about it...
Maybe you could team up with Greer?

[Jynxx 4]

I agree on some of the points that GN has mentioned that it is a glorified nationalistic ceremony in disregard of what kind of atrocities a common man, not an occupational soldier or commanders in the back had to go through in the front lines.

Lets face it. The only military threat that Australia have went through is the war against Japanese. Darwin got bombed over 60 times.

The rest of the war were fighting for Brits and being their cannon fodder. That's a great identity as a nation, ironically.

I think we should all remember what war is all about so it won't happen. That is the responsibility of the generations.

25 years ago, when my friends were newly graduates from Uni, one of them joined a travel company. His assignments were accompanying those who fought in New Guinea recovering bones of their fallen comrades. He told me that so many times he was in tears watching these men crack up, hearing their stories about having to eat flesh off their enemies (eating your own men was punishable by death), etc

I think there is something wrong with these cadets and little kids taking a place in the march, in false illusion of pride, not understanding that WAR IS GENOCIDE. The only ones who can be honoured are the ones who were there and the ones who are dead. We would be equally proud should one day "there is no one in the march because no one went to war." F*** this security arraingment with the US.

[Go Native 70]

And there will be the same old people defending the place.

I'm not having a go at ANZAC day itself. It's the reasons behind the increased popularity of the day which concern me. I do not believe patriotism is a good thing and unfortunately I believe it's the only rational explanation as to why so many Aussies have a new found interest in days like ANZAC day. I was always very critical of Australia. Believe me it's not just a new found interest of mine since leaving the place. I would be making the same argument whether I lived there or here. Of course one of the consequences of increased patriotic fervor is that criticism is not very well received. Australia is the best country in the world isn't it?

[js 0]

Originally Posted By: Jynxx

I agree on some of the points that GN has mentioned that it is a glorified nationalistic ceremony in disregard of what kind of atrocities a common man, not an occupational soldier or commanders in the back had to go through in the front lines.
Lets face it. The only military threat that Australia have went through is the war against Japanese. Darwin got bombed over 60 times.
The rest of the war were fighting for Brits and being their cannon fodder. That's a great identity as a nation, ironically.

Your knowledge of WW2 is severely lacking if that's all you know. We actually fought under our own flag and as an inividual country e.g. our Navy ships, our airwings, and our land forces. Some Aussies, like the Canadians/South Africans/Polish/Dutch/Free French, etc did in fact fight under the British banner, but that was a matter of either choice or necessity.

New Guinea was administered by Australia, so in fact our territorial lands were invaded. I suggest you read-up on the Coral Sea Battle (OZ & US vs Japs), which is the reason why the New Guinea campaigns commenced. No prisoners taken by either side in those. (My Uncle fought at Gone/Buna - a disease ridden blood bath.) Both Aussies and Yanks fought in NG.

So, we actually fought with the Poms - loss of Singapore, etc; and the Yanks.

As for 'fighting for the Brits', well, it was either that or fight for the Axis?! The cannon fodder days were in the previous End of Empires War (WW1)

The global shift in politics still has us closely aligned to the Yanks rather than the Poms - both are poisoned chalices.

I reckon Gen Y are just old enough to remember their grand parents (who lived throught WW2), so they are picking up the ANZAC Day batton out of respect for them, rather than nationalism per se.

It'll be interesting to see what Gen Y's kids do ... probably be a bunch of decadent wankers like those in the 1930's, and history will undoubetly repeat itself with another mass annilation.

[RobBright 35]

Screw the arguments -respect to those who gave their lives in the hope that their family could live free without fear from persecution.

[RobBright 35]

The people that gave their lives for their country should NEVER be forgotten.

[Go Native 70]

Rob if you actually read any of my comments then you'd realise I'm not having a go at ANZAC day itself but rather the reasons why it has had a resurgence in popularity. We also have Remembrance Day in Nov when all those who died in all the wars are remembered. I'm not against remembering those who gave their lives but I am against patriotism and Australia when I was still there went through a period where patriotism through government propaganda was rampant. It served to enhance all the things which I disliked about the country and was certainly a catalyst for me moving to Japan. Are you Aussie Rob, do you even know about the ANZAC tradition and mythology? And please don't tell me that every war we've been involved in since WWII had anything at all to do with allowing us and our families to live free without fear from persecution...

[Jynxx 4]

Originally Posted By: SubZero

Your knowledge of WW2 is severely lacking if that's all you know. We actually fought under our own flag and as an inividual country e.g. our Navy ships, our airwings, and our land forces. Some Aussies, like the Canadians/South Africans/Polish/Dutch/Free French, etc did in fact fight under the British banner, but that was a matter of either choice or necessity.

New Guinea was administered by Australia, so in fact our territorial lands were invaded. I suggest you read-up on the Coral Sea Battle (OZ & US vs Japs), which is the reason why the New Guinea campaigns commenced. No prisoners taken by either side in those. (My Uncle fought at Gone/Buna - a disease ridden blood bath.) Both Aussies and Yanks fought in NG.

So, we actually fought with the Poms - loss of Singapore, etc; and the Yanks.

As for 'fighting for the Brits', well, it was either that or fight for the Axis?! The cannon fodder days were in the previous End of Empires War (WW1)

I don't give a toss as to your assessment of my knowledge about ww2. as much as I don't care about the flag one fights under. Clearly you mentality is an example to what patriotic sentiments do to a country downunder that struggled to have its own identity.
I have been born to parents who directly experienced ww2, witnessed the civilian massacre by US bombers in Tokyo and Hiroshima and countless stories told by that generation.
Like I told you guys in my example in regards to my friend, we at least know better never to repeat it again. This is what we will not forget.

I am in agreement with GN on this. There is remembrance day. Call it Anzac day or whatever, its military day.
My take on this is that Australia suffered a cultural and social inferior complex to the so called developed West.
In the late '70s, while on 16% bank interest, a country for kids and old people dependent on Japan for 60% of the economy. So many times I heard that "We have no tradition or heritage since it's only 200 yo" when any heritage was being developed as shops for tourism. How bid deal it was to win the America's cup. Suddenly there is a national anthem to replace "I feel like a (brand name of beer) or two"
It's just flag waving. When I went to the States after 9/11 and saw so many flags, even on cars, some Americans recognised this and were concerned about it, too.
Patriotism is one of the root causes to turn the axis of evil,
if you like to use the term coined by Bush.

[Mantas 3]

The numbers at the service this morning were about the same as last year. It was a very somber moment watching a lady in her nineties lay a reith at the epitaph. To feel the need to come out on ANZAC day and honor her lost loved on some 60 years on was touching.

 

GN, your comments about Howard and patriotism are making you look a little silly. New Zealand's ANZAC day numbers are increasing as well, are you going to thank Howard for that too?

I went to Golipoli in 1989 when Howard was an unknown stamp licker in the Liberal party. The number of Aussies visiting the battle fields were increasing rapidly back then and had been for some time.

 

BTW. There were several thousand people there this morning and I only saw one Aussie flag. It was the one on the flag pole.

[Go Native 70]

Well you're welcome to your opinion. I did live there as well Mantas and am also speaking from personal experience. Of course how we perceive things around us depends on our own points of view. You obviously think Aus is a great place with a great people. I never liked the place or people that much myself. Kind of why I now live in another country.

[Mantas 3]

So are we on again for next year then?

[Tubby Beaver 209]

Isn't ANZAC day about the crazy defeat at Gallipolli in WW1?