April 25 ANZAC Day

[mitchpee 10]

I really like GN's example of imagine Europe needing assistance like this. This is stuff we see even in developed countries. Look at what Katrina did to the US. New Orleans lost most of it's population and inundated the surrounding states with people. Luckily there was a shit-show of a spectacle of a relief, but a bad effort is better than none.

 

Immigration is extremely diametrical in opinion, and for good reason.

 

Luckily (or maybe not so luckily), I understand the ramifications of NAFTA and what it has done to Mexico. I also understand how agriculture has been ultimately screwed for decades in Latin America and Mexico. So I understand why there is such a push and what imbalances really are the underlying cause here. I think this knowledge has helped shape what I view and whom I view should be able to live in the US. I don't mean to change the topic, but some dialectical thinking never hurt anybody.

[Mantas 3]

Originally Posted By: Go Native

I
Lets say some conflict has occurred in Europe and there's 1000's upon 1000's of English refugees and asylum seekers turning up on our shores. What do you imagine Australia's response would be? Would we be processing all their claims at offshore detention centres? Would they be held for up to years in these centres? Or would Australia mobilise a massive relief effort to assist them in every way we could? I think it's interesting to consider this scenario.

We have had a relationship with England for over 200 years and it's a good one. We've saved their arse and they've saved our many times. We speak the same language, English (funny that), we have similar interests, they as immigrants legal or otherwise would have more skills to offer. We have no connection with Afghanistan or Sri Lanka, never have (apart from the current conflict in Afganastan). They are of a different religion and speak a different language and offer little to the country by way of skill. We take them in on compassionate grounds only.

A little silly to be comparing the two don't you think.

WTF do you keep referring to Hanson. She disappeared of the radar a decade ago man.....move on. The fact that you bring her up in every second post is amazing and further evidence that you have no real understanding of what goes on here. If you like to think I'm some gullible moron that randomly regurgitates hyperbole from what ever source suits my argument, that's fine by me. If you lift your viel of bias and prejudice then you might be able to just see my points as I intend them.

[Go Native 70]

So your point is that because they look different to us, speak a different language, have a different religion and possibly aren't as skilled then we have every right to treat them differently? Isn't that the very definition of racism?

 

Maybe you should read Australia's anti discrimination laws Mantas. I think my scenario is an excellent way to guage racism and you've certainly shown your colours.

 

Just because Hanson hasn't been around in politics for many years does not mean that there are not still plenty of Australians who would support someone just like her or that there is not a legacy of thought that can't be referred to. I only use her as an example of intolerant and racist Australia because she is one we all know well. It's hardly unusual to refer to historical figures when referring to certain types of thinking.

 

This is not the only forum I frequent and I have had similar discussion on Australian based forums over the years. Many of the comments on those forums do not make me believe that attitudes have changed that much in the 5 years since I left for good. Your comments on here only reinforce my beliefs of a continuing racist society.

[Mantas 3]

Once again your bias interpretation shine though. Who said anything about looks.

What ever GN. I can see you will continue on your agenda no matter what and will do next time again no doubt. Which brings me back to my first post.

Ironic that you left because of racist elements and now reside happily in a country where racism is enshired in law. Got your Japanese passport yet?

 

The 1000 asilum seekers may get one before you.

 

 

[Go Native 70]

I've always found most racists to be a little like alcoholics. It takes a lot for them to come to admit it. One of the problems of course is that their point of view is skewed such that they just don't see it. Like you Mantas you really can't see any problem with discrimination based on race, religion, etc because hey we have more in common with other whities who speak the same language, pray to the same god (if you're into that thing), have similar interests, etc. Why shouldn't we treat them differently? Just like alcoholics the first step to recovery Mantas is accepting you have a problem. C'mon man heal yourself, you'll be a much better person for it!

[Mantas 3]

Originally Posted By: Go Native

Like you Mantas you really can't see any problem with discrimination based on race, religion, etc because hey we have more in common with other whities who speak the same language, pray to the same god (if you're into that thing), have similar interests, etc.

How the hell did you come to that conclusion? We are talking about immigration are we not. WTF are you talking about?

I think your the true racist GN, fleeing to monocuture Japan to escape the multicultural problems here. Is it the Chinks or the Wogs that you didn't like.

Unlike you I stayed here in multicultural Australia after nearly ten years of travelling the globe. Multicuturalism isn't perfect, in fact it's down right complicated, but hey, you dont have to deal with any of that now do you? Harmonous living with one skin and hair colour suit you just fine hey?
We will work it all out, we always do and your anonymous rablings on the internet wont make a jot of difference. Almost half the population now comes from non anglo backgrounds, including myself and my fathers side of the family, and I for one couldn't be more happy about it. Diversity and flavour are what I love about this place. Especially the stories of how one came to be here.

OK I can see the hole I dug myself before with the English refugee scenario. Sometimes I'm not good at getting my point accross. You set me up there. Good one.
You don't know me GN, but I think you know that I'm not a racist, right?

[Go Native 70]

Yep you certainly fell for it.

I really have no idea why you keep referring to my living in Japan though. The opinions I hold are not affected by where I live, I'd hold the same opinions wherever I was living. And the fact that this country also has issues makes no difference to the sort of place I would like Australia to be. And if you hadn't noticed most of the issues surrounding racism and the like in this country have been raised by myself in these forums. It's not like I'm being hypocritical if that's what you're trying to infer.

 

And I should add that living in the Niseko area I live in what must be one of the most multicultural places in all of Japan.

[Mantas 3]

You keep refering to it yourself and stating the reasons why you left repeatedly. So I thought it was rellevent. The fact that you want Australia to be this or that is a little hypocytical given your repeated claims that you no longer care.

 

Enough for one day. Time for dinner.

[Go Native 70]

Hardly hypocritical when I also have views on how I'd like the US or China to be and I haven't even ever lived those places! I don't care to the extent I'm losing sleep over any of these issues (I once did!) but that doesn't mean I have no interest whatsoever in the country I spent the first 34 years of my life.

[JA2340 16]

And you also see some of the best and worst of the Aussie tourist. I'll bet!

 

As for ANZAC day, my old man will NOT march, never has. He was in WA in the Air Force, but has no particular interest in reliving the time. The fact that he doesn't drink probably has a bit to do with it, he also will not go to meetings at the pub for the same reason.

 

As for the increasing awareness, I think that the idea that many are renewing/reliving the memories of their great grandy's and they DO have a link to the, albeit very few, deaths in foreign parts of our soldiers on active duty.

 

Whatever the reason, I'm not sure that you can make the leap from ANZAC day's increasing popularity to nationalism and xenophobia. (There may be other examples that go more easily to those conclusions, but the ANZAC popularity is not, I think, one).

[Go Native 70]

Well I wasn't linking the increase in popularity to xenophobia but to patriotism. The whole racist/xenophobia stuff spun off from that.

[Mantas 3]

Originally Posted By: Go Native

Hardly hypocritical when I also have views on how I'd like the US or China to be and I haven't even ever lived those places!

Your whole credibility on this topic is in question. It's stinks of hypocracy.
Your repeatedly cite racial intolerance for one of the reason why you left Australia, then you move to an even more racially intolerant country, then repeatedly claim how much better the society is there.
It's like leaving Tasmania because the weather is too cold then moving too Moscow. You know full well that Niseko is a pin prick micro bubble of Japanese society, hardly representative of greater Japan where ethnicity percentages would be lucky to reach double figures. Unlike Australia where we have nearly half.
The fact that you deal out your criticism to other counties as well counts for little given your self imposed position of neutrality. Some kind of citizen of the universe are we?
The great 'melting pot' of multicultural Australia is exactly that, a melting pot. It takes some time for the melting process. If you couldn't stomach what goes on in the pot, fair enough, I understand but your comments and criticism (none of it constructive) from the other side of the world on a snow skiing forum will do nothing to improve the situation.

Like I said, we will work it all out, we always do.

[Go Native 70]

That's BS. I have been one of the few people on this forum to openly criticise Japanese society and have been repeatedly criticised for it. How is that hypocrasy? Find any post I've ever made where I've tried to defend Japan. I live here primarily because of the climate (snow) and landscapes, which I've made clear many times, not because of any love of Japanese culture and it's people. The decision to move to this country was made easier for me because of the political climate in Aus before I left but it's not like I absolutely hate everything about the country. I do find it interesting how people get so defensive about issues regarding the country they are from. Just because of a few issues though it doesn't mean everything about the country is bad. I've often been asked why I continue to live in Japan if I think so badly of so many things here. It's because not everything is bad, some things are incredibly good. It's the same with Aus. Sure I think there are some issues with the place but there's still so much good about it as well. Regardless of how many good things there are about any country though that should not mean we should never discuss things we still consider bad. Some of you don't seem to get that concept.

 

And I'm well aware that my comments here make no difference. But that goes with just about every post on any subject on this forum doesn't it? I mean we have a thread currently on the World Cup. Is anything anyone says in that thread going to make any difference to the outcome of the World Cup? I enjoy debating issues I see as important. Don't like it? Then don't debate them with me. I'm obviously far better than you at it anyway.

[griller 9]

Originally Posted By: Go Native

I have been one of the few people on this forum to openly criticise Japanese society and have been repeatedly criticised for it.

You think so? I think lots of people have a good moan from time to time.

[Mantas 3]

Originally Posted By: Go Native

That's BS. I have been one of the few people on this forum to openly criticise Japanese society and have been repeatedly criticised for it. How is that hypocrasy? Find any post I've ever made where I've tried to defend Japan. I live here primarily because of the climate (snow) and landscapes, which I've made clear many times, not because of any love of Japanese culture and it's people.

Wel lucky for you hey, because they certainly don't love you back. Because unlike Australia , you will be always be just a 'visiting foreigner' with no democratic voice. Debate? Hah. Someone starts a thread on Anzac day to honour fallen soldiers and you see it as a golden opotunity to vent your distaste for all things Australian. I see the irony is still lost on you. Here I am defending claims of racist Australia from a guy that preferes to live in one of the most racsit countries in the world. Snow or no snow...

[Go Native 70]

Don't act as though you really know anything about Japan Mantas. And as most people have commented from time to time, Niseko is certainly not like the rest of Japan.

It is still completely lost on me though how where I live should make any difference to the opinions I hold. Would it be ok for me, in your opinion, to voice similar arguments if I still lived in Aus? Or does me living in another country disallow me somehow the ability to comment on the country I lived in for 34 years of my life? I left so I can't criticise? Is that it?

[Go Native 70]

Originally Posted By: griller

Originally Posted By: Go Native

I have been one of the few people on this forum to openly criticise Japanese society and have been repeatedly criticised for it.

You think so? I think lots of people have a good moan from time to time.

Plenty of people moan from time to time but I don't see too many threads ever being started discussing major issues affecting society here, especially concerning issues faced by us foreigners. Certainly not compared to some other forums I've been on.

[RobBright 35]

 

just to lighten things up in here.

[griller 9]

[Mantas 3]

For once GN I'd like to see you offer something to the forum other than criticism.

[Mantas 3]

 

OK... OK.. GN you win the 'debate'. You little champion debater you.

I'll be a good little bogan and climb back into my pigeon hole.

BTW. I'll be heading over to Jakarta and Sumatra in a few weeks, the heart land of Indonesian Islamic fundamentalism. It will be visit number 10 for me to these parts. I'll try to refrain from waving the Aussie flag about and chanting oi oi oi ! But I can't promise anything.

[Go Native 70]

I offer plenty on these forums other than criticism, like trip reports, weather updates and plenty of information on skiing in this great land. As I said though I enjoy debate. Pretty hard to debate anything where everyone agrees with you

And believe me the debates I have on this forum are nothing compared to many I have on other forums out there. On the whole I'm very reserved on these forums as it seems most are very touchy and prefer to keep things all happy happy!

[grungy-gonads 54]

I disagree!

[grungy-gonads 54]

GN, could you make a new topic on one of those Japan culture topics you'd like to discuss? Lets see how that goes.

[Mantas 3]

Good one Griller. Only on SJ could a topic about ANZAC day transvolve into an Agadoo video.