nippontiger 8 Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 Ken of Kentropolis said : If you live your life without causing trouble, there is no need to be worried about stuff like this. Surely. Disagree. Look at that in another context : Imagine your wife has a job, but she keeps turning up late - her boss, a big guy - used to do a bit of boxing, keeps warning her and hes getting pretty fed up with her. Then one day she turns up late yet again, so her boss punches her in the face!! If theres no need to be worried because we're not causing trouble, then presumably, we can simply ignore the actions of the boss - it doesnt affect us. Actually, everybody would be outraged at the bosses actions, and would be demanding the boss be fired and charged with a criminal offence - quite rightly so. And so it is here. It is not the job of the police to go dishing out punishments - that is the job of the courts. The question here is "Could four burly police men not apprehend a skinny, unarmed, big-mouthed student in a safe manner without the use of their new and potentially lethal toy - the tazer, when they already had him pinned to the floor?". If they couldnt manage that - then they're obviously not fit for the job. If they could, then the use of the tazer was totally unnecessary. If the law in that state allows this to happen (I think its a bit vague, actually), then it really should be reviewed IMO Link to post Share on other sites
spacefrog 0 Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 Originally Posted By: Gary Of course, the "Tasing" was totally unnecessary. It is the job of the police to arrest suspects and put together evidence, not to issue punishments - thats the job of the courts. Anyway, I like to think that this wouldnt ever happen in my country, England. We dont have such laws as "Three strikes and your out", because, as we might say in England, well, its just not cricket (sorry!). The laws pertaining to the police use of such powerfull and potentially lethal weapons as Tasers, are quite clear - officers should only use them as an alternative to lethal force - ie in a potentially life-threatening situation. If this happened to the guy in England, I imagine he could press charges against the offending officers. But what crime, would the "Tasing bro'" be charged with? Assault? I dont think so, as the attack actually involved the use of a material object, so I think it would be... . . . Wait for it.. . . . Assault with Battery!! Sorry but the Uk is trying or has passed legislation to taser children and pregant women. and what is the issue that most people thought that it was ok that he was detained but not tasered??? missing the point, the cops don`t care what you do anymore and will act how they see fit regardless. but the silent majority don`t care?? well all there is to say you will learn once you get tasered to death for something irrelevant. only one way to learn and that`s the hard way. Link to post Share on other sites
Tubby Beaver 209 Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 Originally Posted By: Ken of Kentropolis Common sense, perhaps. but commonsense to you may not necessarily be common sense to me Link to post Share on other sites
Ken of Kentropolis 0 Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 Right. I am going by what I feel is common sense. Link to post Share on other sites
thursday 1 Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 This is nuts. Poll please. Link to post Share on other sites
Tubby Beaver 209 Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 But thats my point, what if you act in such a way that adheres to your common sense, but the guy with the Taser interprets that act another way and taser's you? Surely you'd feel ever so slightly pissed off? You'd worry about it then. Link to post Share on other sites
Ken of Kentropolis 0 Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 But I would not act in a way that would make someone in authority wish to "taser me". Link to post Share on other sites
thursday 1 Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 Nobody in authority is authorized to torture anyone. Link to post Share on other sites
Tubby Beaver 209 Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 Did you really think that the student deserved to be tasered? Link to post Share on other sites
Ken of Kentropolis 0 Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 No not really, but he was being extremely annoying and would not stop when asked to. I wouldn't be putting myself in that situation. Link to post Share on other sites
samurai 0 Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 He wasn't being annoying. He was pushing officers who were trying to escort him out. Yes, they tasered him when he was on the floor. Pretty lame. But let's not forget about the "burly" security officer CARRYING him while he fought. How about the female officer who was considerably smaller than him being pushed aside? What about her safety? Yeah, he was tasered while on the floor, after saying; "Don't taser me dude." But I have to wonder how much he just wouldn't settle down with, how many... 5 officers on him? Are all 5 really incompetent or was the guy just impossible to control? I don't know, the video I saw had nothing to do with freedom of speech or over-abusive cops. I saw him push an officer while trying to get away, and I saw him flailing his arms about trying to wrestle away from another. Guys, the security were carrying him out! Something tells me he wasn't laying quietly on the floor saying; "Don't taser me, dude." all pouty-like. I do believe that he could have been carried out in hand-cuffs by 5 people (some of which were not-so-burly-women). But I also completely understand why 5 officers would be frustrated after being forced to wrestle him in the first place. What is this guy doing wrestling security officers in the first place? WTF? "They tasered him for speaking his mind." as if he was just speaking and not wrestling officers. does anyone here think they can walk into a crowded public arena and wrestle the security and claim it has something to do with freedom of speach? Link to post Share on other sites
spacefrog 0 Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 Originally Posted By: samurai Yeah, he was tasered while on the floor, after saying; "Don't taser me dude." But I have to wonder how much he just wouldn't settle down with, how many... 5 officers on him? Are all 5 really incompetent or was the guy just impossible to control? Incredulous. just like the geriatric they tasered in her wheelchair because she refused the command to get up. or just like the epileptic they taseres to death because he wouldn`t stop moving. 50.000 volts running through you makes it hard to stop moving but anyway. and just to answer your question, yeah all 5 were overzealous, what do you expect from cops campus or otherwise and really at a university debate you should expect this kind of student involvement. And again this was not a debate, he was shut down for asking the undesired questions. Censorship at it`s most extreme and at a University that is disgraceful. Issue really is that people are conditioned to think this behaviour from the authorities is acceptable. Link to post Share on other sites
samurai 0 Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 How in the world does this link to the geriatric in her wheelchair or the epileptic tasered to death because he wouldn't stop moving? Okay, troll above has suckered me in. I'm now out of whatever conversation trolls are trying to argue. get over yourself, troll. the key-beneficiaries to your argument have stopped reading. Link to post Share on other sites
nippontiger 8 Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 Samurai said: But I have to wonder how much he just wouldn't settle down with, how many... 5 officers on him? Are all 5 really incompetent or was the guy just impossible to control? So if the police didnt have access to a tazer, or any guns or whatever, presumably there was a chance that this guy could have got up from his position, kicked the policewoman in the face, and, I dont know - pulled out a gun and shot someone or whatever. No, the guy wouldve just been aprehended, probably in not much more time, or with any more risk (probably considerably less risk, than that involved when passing 50,000 volts across somebodys chest) than it took having "tazered" him. As for the officers being frustrated - see my last post - that boss was frustrated too - I mean, how many times had he told his employee to stop being late? But, it doesnt mean he was right to punch her in the face - even if he had warned her, twice beforehand that if she was late again, he would punch her in the face. Link to post Share on other sites
spacefrog 0 Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 Originally Posted By: samurai How in the world does this link to the geriatric in her wheelchair or the epileptic tasered to death because he wouldn't stop moving? Okay, troll above has suckered me in. I'm now out of whatever conversation trolls are trying to argue. get over yourself, troll. the key-beneficiaries to your argument have stopped reading. How does it??? well because that is the state of the police right now. Point is it doesn`t matter what you do, if the cops want to taser you they will and will justify. all you are doing is defending their side?? they are all related as that behaviour is becoming endemic. gratuitous police violance towards people they are paid to serve.Obiviously this concept is beyond your comprehension. As for trolling well how you come to that conclusion is just weak. but it's the path of least resistance to label someone a troll. Link to post Share on other sites
samurai 0 Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 Gary- Don't misquote me out of context. I agreed that 5 people should have been able to carry a handcuffed man. That doesn't excuse pushing officers around the room. Do it... go push an officer and tell me what happens. In any country. And... I don't like these "punching your employee in the face for being late." analogies. Let's stick with what happened. Nobody punched anybody in the face for being late. Link to post Share on other sites
samurai 0 Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 beyond my comprehension? the path of least resistence? Get over yourself, dude. Link to post Share on other sites
spacefrog 0 Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 get over myself? I can`t get over your support for authoritarian violence . nothing coherent to support your view. and I have to get over myself. Really why is it so bad to speak out against the US as that really is the issue for you. Get over myself?????????????so really you are right and everyone else is wrong even you can`t justify it. Link to post Share on other sites
samurai 0 Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 dude, you're not following the argument. He wasn't tasered for speaking. I don't even like Kerry. (read above) But do keep arguing something different in every post. It's kind of fun now. Link to post Share on other sites
nippontiger 8 Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 5 officers could have handled the man. So why tazer him? Why was the use of the tazer necessary? This is a dangerous weapon, remember, linked to several deaths, capable of causing cardiac arrest and inducing seizures. The guy was being an idiot - I totally agree that he shouldnt have been pushing police, and behaving like that. But, in my country (last time I was there anyway), if you pushed the police, they would push you to the floor, stick handcuffs on, drag you off to the police station and have you up in front of the courts to be tried and punished - thats the way the justice system works in a free country. They wouldnt push you to the floor, and then blast you with a tazer, for no other reason, than "cos I felt like it", from what I can see. I stand by my analogy - this didnt happen, of course. But, taking someones theory eg "If your not misbehaving, you dont need to worry", or "He was a very frustrating guy, so that justifies tazering him" and applying those theories to analogous situations (even if they're more vivid/extreme), is a standard method for testing theories. The fact that the guy was frustrating/ had pushed an officers arm away or whatever - are simply "mitigating circumstances" which do not make the ultimate act of the unnecessary "tasering" right, but I would certiainly agree that they should be taken into account when deciding on what to do with the officers. Link to post Share on other sites
Go Native 70 Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 You guys have got to be real bored to still be discussing this issue....bring on the snow!! Link to post Share on other sites
scouser 4 Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 Yes we must get back to, er, making snow. Link to post Share on other sites
Tubby Beaver 209 Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 Originally Posted By: Ken of Kentropolis No not really, but he was being extremely annoying and would not stop when asked to. I wouldn't be putting myself in that situation. Well I applaud your holier than thou morals Ken, because take it from me, who has been arrested for nothing, that this situation can and does happen. I was arrested for watching a fight in the street then complaining to the Police that they arrested the wrong people ( my friends who were also just by-standers). I then proceeded to calmly take a note of the Police officers ID Numbers so that I could make a formal complaint later and while doing this one over zealous cop demanded i hand over my pencil as, and I quote, "Its an offensive weapon". We ended up in court, where thankfully common sense prevailed and the Sherriff threw the case out. But for someone who also "wouldn't put himself in a criminal situation" I could've been found guilty, got a record, not been able to travel to Japan etc and my life would've been altered in a bad way. My point being that although you may think that you are acting in a legal way, if the policeman desires to arrest/ taser/ beat for an act the HE deems innappropriate then he will. You'd better hope that the ydon't have taser powers then Link to post Share on other sites
Mantas 3 Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 Originally Posted By: Go Native You guys have got to be real bored to still be discussing this issue....bring on the snow!! Keep us posted on the Yotie situation GN Link to post Share on other sites
Ken of Kentropolis 0 Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 Quote: I was arrested for watching a fight in the street then complaining to the Police that they arrested the wrong people I wonder if the police would give a different account of your "calmly watching a fight" and responses. I just simply do not accept that totally innocent people get done over like this. Link to post Share on other sites
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