Cars

[klingon 10]

My first car was a mini. Tiny little thing, crappy little thing, but when I was 18 it was my Love Machine. (Well, that's how I imaginied it anyway!)

 

Then I didnt't have a car for a while before I came to Japan, but now here I have a decent 2nd hand Subaru legacy.

 

Seems quite a few of us on there drive in thie country, I'd be interested to know what people have. (Sorry for being nosy!)

[soubriquet 0]

Subaru Legacy

[fjef 0]

Toyota Prius Hybrid - I will never buy a 'normal' car again. It is a truly amazing piece of technology.

 

About to trade in the old faithful Delica van for a Toyota Estima Hybrid for carting the kids/dog/surfboards/skis - I'll miss the Delica but look forward to the convenience of a van combined with the efficiency of hybrid technology...

 

I hope my next vehicle will be 100% electric if these last long enough! Toyota and GM have the technology - they just have to make the break from the hold of Big Oil...

[spook 0]

are electric cars better for the environment than oil? doesn't alot of it depend on how they generate the electricity?

[fjef 0]

 Originally Posted By: spook

are electric cars better for the environment than oil? doesn't alot of it depend on how they generate the electricity?

Electricity to your home is much 'cleaner' than automobile emissions so its a start - but my own personal goal is to add enough solar panels to my home to power it and a vehicle. The technology is available today but the up front costs are still high (but coming down fast). There is still a big problem with solar efficiency in Japan, but that is a topic for another thread...

[samurai 0]

 Originally Posted By: fjef

Toyota and GM have the technology - they just have to make the break from the hold of Big Oil...

Money talks.

I remember seeing the Dodge Magna in prototype form. (new station wagon that came out about 8 years ago.) It was electric, 4 wheel drive, and had 300 hp. Mobile bought the patent. Good bye dream car.

The magna still exists. But now it has your choice of a V6 or a hemi.

As mentioned in another thread, my pops bought a full sized dodge pickup with a cummins diesel and converted it to vegetable oil. He pulls heavy trailers over mountain passes as he's moving across the sierras. That's my new dream rig. (although a hilux diesel or delica diesel converted to veggie in Japan would do quite nicely...)

He drops off his filtering drums at the local taqueria and the cooks just dump the day's used vegie oil into his drums. The restaurant no longer has to pay disposal fees either. win - win. His conversion kit and home filters costed nearly 4000. But he argues he's already saved that much in all of his trips over the pass while building his cabin. I'm so fricking jealous it's insane.

[soubriquet 0]

I think oil company conspiracy theories are wide of the mark. If there was a cheaper way to travel, there are plenty of powerful and rich institutions who could make it work.

 

Hybrids are not the future. They need two drive systems and all the extra weight that need is needed to accellerate the vehicle wastes energy. Electric cars need massive batteries and give you no range, and several hours re-fill time.

 

The future is hydrogen fuel cells. I don't see them happening anytime soon.

[samurai 0]

you may think that oil company conspiracy theories are wide of the mark, and I agree with you... in the long term. However, oil companies are stopping immediate release of non-oil technology. It won't last. You're right... but the conspiracy, albeit short-termed, does exist.

 

and I agree with you that hybrids and electric cars are futile as well. The same is true with flying cars. I remember asking my dad (when I was like 8) "when will cars leave the ground?" and he replied; "Why would they? ... they already have a sustainable network to function. Why would we replace roads? That just doesn't make sense."

 

So yeah... short term visions of escaping the oil addiction are pretty far fetched... however- those short-term visions are really all we have. And they are occuring. My pops and his veggie powered pickup is proof. But no... tragically, it won't last forever. It'll last as long as his truck, but there's no reason for that technology to carry on. It just plain doesn't sustain the population.

[snobee 0]

Electric cars are Futile?

Could you elaborate a little on that please?

 

Apparently 80% of all kilometres travelled are made in short trips within 20~30 k's from home.

 

Long range simply is not necessary for the majority.

 

Hybrid technology is not the be all and end all. No one has ever said it was.

 

But it is an important stepping stone in the evolution of people carriers irregardless of what Nissan's learned Mr Ghosn says.

 

Plant generated electricity is simply so much more cost effective and easier on the environment - plug ins WILL be important for a long time.

[SirJibAlot 0]

I'm still waiting for Mr. Fusion and the flux capacitor....

[fjef 0]

 Originally Posted By: soubriquet

I think oil company conspiracy theories are wide of the mark. If there was a cheaper way to travel, there are plenty of powerful and rich institutions who could make it work.

Hybrids are not the future. They need two drive systems and all the extra weight that need is needed to accellerate the vehicle wastes energy. Electric cars need massive batteries and give you no range, and several hours re-fill time.

The future is hydrogen fuel cells. I don't see them happening anytime soon.

I suggest you have a look at the documentary "Who Killed the Electric Car" for some insight into the reason there are not more of them on the road now. The technology is not the problem.

If 2 drive systems are so inefficient, can you explain why I enjoy averaging 1,000 kms per 45 litre tank of gas while at the same time generating only 10% of the emissions of a similar sized car?

All hybrids are not created equal - the Prius was designed for fuel economy and reduced emissions - unfortunately many other hybrid models (including other Toyota models) are not.

I agree that hybrids are not the future but they are available now. The future is in all-electric vehicles and the technology already exists. Fuel cells are a long way off and the science is still in doubt - but are a great way to receive government funding and divert attention away from battery powered solutions - which do exist.

[thursday 1]

Hybrid is what we have at the moment, so hybrid will do for now. The RX400h actually accelerates faster than a Porche Cayenne S. The electric motor plus the engines combined gives it massive torgue.

 

I was considering the RX400h but since 2007 is a replacement model year, just have to wait a bit longer. Still prefer the Cayenne though.

 

Yeah, I'm an SUV driver and that's the way I like it, petrol or hybrid.

[soubriquet 0]

From Wikipedia:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_EV1

 

"The Gen 1 cars got 55 to 75 miles (90 to 120 km) per charge with the Delco-manufactured lead-acid batteries, 75 to 100 miles (120-to-160 km) with the Gen 2 Panasonic lead-acid batteries, and 75 to 150 miles (120 to 240 km) per charge with Gen 2 Ovonic nickel-metal hydride batteries. Recharging took as much as eight hours for a full charge (although one could get an 80% charge in two to three hours)."

 

That would mean 32 hours refueling for a return trip to Narita, plus driving time. Electric is not an option for your prime vehicle.

[indosnm 0]

Thursday,

 

There's only 1 Porsche and that's the 911!

[thursday 1]

True if I didn't have a family.

 

Now I look to the Cayenne.

[fjef 0]

 Originally Posted By: soubriquet

From Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_EV1

"The Gen 1 cars got 55 to 75 miles (90 to 120 km) per charge with the Delco-manufactured lead-acid batteries, 75 to 100 miles (120-to-160 km) with the Gen 2 Panasonic lead-acid batteries, and 75 to 150 miles (120 to 240 km) per charge with Gen 2 Ovonic nickel-metal hydride batteries. Recharging took as much as eight hours for a full charge (although one could get an 80% charge in two to three hours)."

That would mean 32 hours refueling for a return trip to Narita, plus driving time. Electric is not an option for your prime vehicle.

You are using figures that are 10 years old and using even older designs. But even with 100kms range, one charge is more than enough for the majority of drivers - especially those living in cities. Long distance electric vehicles are already going much further on a charge and the time to charge is also greatly reduced.

New electric designs (http://www.zapworld.com/ZAPWorld.aspx?id=4560) offer a 10 minute charge time and ranges of 350 miles so the logistic barriers are disappearing fast. The problem is getting these vehicles into the mainstream media and in the market to increase production reduce the cost.

The new Prius (2010 model) is being tested now and reported to get 100kms/litre so hybrid technology is also improving. 2,000 kms on one tank of gas would suit my needs and budget just fine...

There is also a plug-in Prius being tested that will make it even more efficient.

I was skeptical before I bought a Prius, but it was a second car and I took a chance because the concept was so appealing. Owning and driving one has far exceeded all my expectations. Now I find myself questioning many of the things we assume to be normal about cars - like why do car engines need to idle and spew exhaust when the car is not even moving?

[thursday 1]

I like the hybrid cars. I like the way braking re-charges the batteries to some extent.

 

But be careful, the batteries will have alife of 5 years max. Change to another hybrid before the warrnaty runs out.

 

Many years ago, Nissan tried to tackle the idling while stationary scenario. Their method was to stop the engine but have that energy transfered to a massive flywheel in the engine. This would stay spinning until first gear was engaged to move off and the angular momentum of the flywheel would trun over the engine to start it. Needless to say it was a disaster as most often the engines would be flooded with all the stop starts. It was abandoned of course.

[indosnm 0]

 Originally Posted By: thursday

True if I didn't have a family.

Now I look to the Cayenne.

No, that's the reason you buy a Porsche!

[fjef 0]

Mine is a 2001 Prius with 150,000 kms and the battery is checked each time it goes in for regular check ups. It still has 96% capacity and since the computer never lets the battery run down, there is no noticeable difference in performance/fuel consumption. The car still drives like new. Also, since there are 2 motors, the stress and wear on moving parts is shared making the cost of maintaining a hybrid much lower than a normal car - plus the fact that the electric motor is virtually maintenance free.

 

The idea that batteries need replacing is simply false - they are designed to last the life of the car. Its really sad how much misinformation there is out there about hybrids!

[fjef 0]

 Originally Posted By: thursday

Many years ago, Nissan tried to tackle the idling while stationary scenario. Their method was to stop the engine but have that energy transfered to a massive flywheel in the engine. This would stay spinning until first gear was engaged to move off and the angular momentum of the flywheel would trun over the engine to start it. Needless to say it was a disaster as most often the engines would be flooded with all the stop starts. It was abandoned of course.

Well Toyota has tackled it and won - the computer in the Prius shuts down the gas engine when it is not being used. The gas engine runs primarily to charge the battery when necessary and for additional power when accelerating or driving at highway speeds.

The new Honda Civic hybrids now shut down when idling but the gas engine is in use far more often than the Prius - Honda hasn't quite got it right yet.

[thursday 1]

fjef, that was back in the days when these cars had just the petrol engine and the switch off was to save petrol. It boasted 60mpg, wow in those days I spose.

 

I test drove a prius before deciding it was too ugly for me. No offence, I just prefer an SUV, like the Harrier. I like the hybrid technology and would be one of the top 5 criteria for choosing a new car.

[me jane 0]

Back on topic: Nissan Stagea

[soubriquet 0]

Should I add, two Subaru Vivios, a Subaru Pleo, and a Subaru Sambar van.

[thursday 1]

No

[soubriquet 0]

Tough titty thursday. That's the family and factory fleet.

 

Looks like a Subaru love-in. I don't particularly care for the Vivios and and the Pleo, but the Sambar is a hoot to drive. Especially in the snow, when you can really hang the back end out.