Those cartoons that has offended Muslims so much....

[kkk 7]

I have seen a few of those cartoons online and have obviously seen all the tv footage of the protests and the banners etc... What are peoples thoughts on this? Whilst watching the news footage of the protest in London, I really couldn't believe what I was readng on some of those signs, yet the cops were doing nothing about it. I know if I walked the streets with signs saying that all Muslims should die etc....I would be arrested.

 

I just find the whole situation a bit ridiculous.

[kkk 7]

Arab News - 03 February, 2006

Author: Ray Hanania

 

This week, we witnessed the power of the Islamic and Arab worlds to bring a Western nation virtually to its knees. I was amazed at that power. This is over an issue that the nation’s government had nothing to do with. All I can wonder is why the Islamic and Arab world doesn’t harness that power more effectively and change policies that directly impact our causes and our beliefs?

 

A newspaper in Denmark, Jyllands-Posten, published a series of cartoons that depicted the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) in a derogatory and libelous manner. Few Arabs or Muslims had ever heard of the newspaper before the controversy, yet they were rightly angered.

 

Ironically, the cartoons were published in September 2005, more than five months ago. But this week, the issue came to a head after it surfaced in the Arab world media.

 

Arabs and Muslims are justified in their anger against the action of the newspaper. The publication of the cartoons may constitute a hate crime, which is considered an offense in most Western countries. They certainly should not have been brushed off as being protected under the universal right of free speech as they were initially by the Danish government.

 

In justified anger, Muslims and Arabs have begun boycotting not only the newspaper but also many products that are produced in Denmark. That power has caused many of Denmark’s largest corporations to reel in shock, forcing many to absorb massive profit losses and to even lay-off their employees.

 

That power to act was mobilized in less than two weeks, although it should have begun as soon as the offensive material was first published five months ago.

 

In response the newspaper offered a lukewarm apology. The government of Denmark also claimed it had no power over the newspaper. But we know that is not true.

 

Sadly, many innocent companies and people who might otherwise support the just causes of the Muslim and Arab worlds have also been punished. And that is unfair. And against the spirit of Islam. The Arab and Muslim worlds, despite being the target of a constant and unyielding campaign of hatred in the Western media, should stand as examples of how right and wrong can be addressed.

 

The entire episode reminds me of when the Arab and Islamic worlds joined together one other time many decades ago to launch an embargo of oil against what was clearly then unfair foreign policies against the rights of the Palestinian people and the Arab world. With the power of unity, the Arab and Islamic oil producers put great pressure on the world’s greatest powers, reminding all that right is not always based on might but is instead based on justice and fairness.

 

Today, Arabs and Muslims are plagued by disunity. The only time we come together to exercise our moral and principled strength is when emotion has overcome our reasoning and we act to punish everyone. Unplanned and spontaneous acts of anger and emotion are not strategic. They may even cause a backlash.

 

The protests and boycott against the Danish newspaper are the result of spontaneous emotion rather than strategic action. We reacted rather than acted.

 

Everyday, newspapers throughout the world libel not only Islam but everything that the Arab world stands for that is principled and just. Everyday, the righteous Palestinian cause is victimized by hate crimes in newspapers all around the world, especially in the United States where free speech has exceptions when it comes to Arab and Muslim voices.

 

Yet we do nothing about these offenses.

 

Ironically, we sometimes help the offenders in their libel. In several major American cities, mainstream newspapers are often sold to the American public over the counters of hundreds of thousands of Arab- and Muslim-owned stores. These newspapers depend on us to help them sustain their circulations.

 

In some places like Chicago, newspapers could not survive without the support of Arab- and Muslim-owned grocery stores located in the inner city. The reality is that Chicago newspapers depend these grocery stores to sell their newspapers in poor communities because the newspaper owners fear that their newspapers will be stolen from news boxes placed on the streets of those communities. The sales policy of the newspapers in inner cities is itself racist.

 

Why do we allow this? Why do we allow the newspapers that we sell to Americans continue to slander us, defame us and essentially commit unpunished acts of hate crimes?

 

Emotion and anger are easy. Planning and strategic unity is more difficult and requires effort. We need to come together not simply to punish those who offend us, but to also strengthen our community and insure that our voices are included in the American mainstream news media.

 

The controversy in Denmark should remind Arabs and Muslims that we have the power to make a difference. But can we harness that power when it really counts?

[damian 0]

 Quote:

All I can wonder is why the Islamic and Arab world doesn’t harness that power more effectively and change policies that directly impact our causes and our beliefs?

This is so typical. It makes me angry

When the western way of life, values and customs offend the Arabic customs and values it is ALWAYS the Arab that demands we change our standards to suit their values. These demands usually come with violence. What is more ridiculous is that these Arabic demands are usually made by Arabs living in the west??!! Why the hell should we change? I hold negative opinions of Islam the same as I do about christianity and any other religion. I have zero religion within me and do not think any good arguement exists to even recognise a religion, let alone worship a god or what ever. Those strong opinions do not incite hatred and violence from christian's. The opposite is true of Muslims.

I do not support what America and its allies are doing in the middle east. But that invasion does not excuse the 'conform with Arabic values or we will burn your embassy' attitude. I am tired of being scared of the Arab world. Why can't we have an opinion in our own countries that is contra to their values? Just look what happened to that Dutch film maker.

Sadly I think these disinteresting cartoons have been a defining moment where even moderates on both sides have been induced to strengthen their stance. I have been caught up in this myself. I am repulsed by republicans, yet I now read opinion pieces on this issue written by republican supporters and I find myself fully agreeing with them.

The non-islamic world will lose this long running conflict. The reason we will lose is that we simply do not understand what motivates Islam, and we do not have the same fire or passion from western religions. And western people are scared. I see people all around me turning (back) to christianity. It is happening everywhere. The reason for this is that the western world know they need a sense of unity against what they quite correctly perceive as an Islamic threat.

I wish America would just walk out of the middle east, leaving Arabs to exist peacefully in Arabic land in the manner that they see fit. And the non-mulsim people of the world would be free to have any opinion they want about anything they like (including Islam) whilst they live in their own non-muslim countries.

I am sick and tired of Islam being untouchable from contrary opinion holders, or, even satirists and critical cartoonists. Islam is not off limits to criticism, particularly in non-muslim countries. Why must we accept their intolerance of our critical opinions? And why the hell does America persist in giving the Arab world some form of moral high ground ('we' are, after all, occupying Iraq after an illegal invasion). Leave Arab land and Muslims would no longer have any justification for complaint or anger.

Anyone responding by saying I am racist or xenophobic is required to prove it. I am neither. I am tired of being intimidated by aggressive religiously crazed people who are further fuelled by America's disgraceful presence in Iraq.

[ncorrenti 0]

It is a ridiculous situation.

 

Firstly, I believe it was really irresponsible of the cartoonists and the newspapers that published the cartoons to do what they did. Why? Because they knew it would cause extreme offense and outrage among Muslim fundamentalists. Now, not all Muslims are extreme fundamentalists, but there are quite a few who are, and you just don't want to go pissing those guys off.

 

Of course, I believe in a free press and in theory we should be able to parody anything, however, that's simply not the reality of the world we live in.

 

Secondly, it is really crazy that we have to live in fear of these fundamentalists. I think any kind of fundamentalist, whether they are Muslim, Christian or whatever religion, is dangerous. Is there any possibility of coexisting with people like this peacefully?

[damian 0]

 Quote:

Originally posted by nicole:


Firstly, I believe it was really irresponsible.....

...... you just don't want to go pissing those guys off.

...in theory we should be able to parody anything, however, that's simply not the reality of the world we live in.

Yes and no. I can understand why you say what you do, but reality is not stationary. It changes as we change. If you give an inch now, where will the new reality be tomorrow?

I agree strongly with this opinion:
http://blogs.smh.com.au/thecontrarian/archives/2006/02/those_cartoons_1.html

[bobby12 0]

I think by wetting their pants over a few cartoons they are making themselves look totally ridiculous in a way the original cartoons never stood a hope of doing.

[Ocean11 0]

How many Muslims aren't throwing rocks over this?

 

How many Muslims would be more concerned with politics at home if they were allowed to hold real elections?

[Kraut_in_HongKong 0]

Interestingly the whole campaign was started by Ahmed Akkari, who resides in Denmark and acts there as an imman.

 

Since the 12 original drawings are rather tame he 'sexed' up the cartoons with 3 extra images. Mohammed with a pigs face, Mohammed having sex with an animal and Mohammed as pedophile.

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/08/AR2006020801761.html

 

Nuff said!

[js 0]

On ya Spud – I agree. One thing though, you tend to make it a Christendom Vs Islam thing – history shows that Hindus and Buddhists are vehemently against their general dictatorial ways too.

 

Christianity has moved on from the Spanish Inquisition days, but I believe Islam is currently going through a similar phase; moreover, the Christian/Hindu/Buddhist worlds have generally separated government (State) from the clergy.

 

Whilst Middle East countries continue to be run and indoctrinated by a religion, they will continue to be as they are. Perhaps the former monarchies of those countries did do a better job at controlling their populations (at least they weren’t intent on blowing up everyone!)

 

Additionally, not to put blame on anyone because it’s all 20/20 hindsight now, we really have the Poms to thank for all the Middle East strife – read the history of the First World War (Lawrence of Arabia, et al) and broken promises of self government regarding the Palestinians, etc. The Yanks have just continued with the baton relay and subsequent sabre rattling.

 

Thicker skin would be a good start.

[Ezorisu 0]

It may come off sounding like parrotting Conservative rhetoric, but I think the protests were organized and staged for the benefit of the press, and those that did the organizing have agendas other than preserving the sanctity of their professed religion. It's funny how something that started as, "those culturally insensitive Danes," has become, "down with America". This isn't about America.

 

I think that even if all Western interests were to completely leave the Arab world, Islamic extremists would still have issues with what we do on our own home turf and use that as justification to condemn or attack us. This is a little off the subject, but it's similar to the PRC complaining about Japanese history books that "gloss over Japanese atrocities and imperialism during the war" - I really don't think the People's Party really cares what Japanese gradeschoolers are learning in class - It's just a point of contention that can be used for political purposes.

[Ocean11 0]

The origin clearly goes further back than Akkari.

 

Lots of parties are using the furore for their own ends now, but it started as a provocation, and now masses of people are repeating the message that Muslims are all mad and need to be resisted in some unspecified manner. But don't worry. The manner will be supplied for us.

[damian 0]

I liked his last paragraph. He may well be correct in his fear, even if it was not the newspapers intention. His counter examples and other statements are interesting, but don't move me. He wrote them as though he is desperately married to his pro Islam opinion at any cost. I simply do not feel that Islam has been wronged any further than a legitimate claim that the cartoons are offensive. If a Danish newspaper published these images in an Islamic nation then my opinion would be different, like wise if a Muslim penned the cartoons. But neither of these are the case.

 

Muslims have plenty of free speech within the western non-Muslim nations that they reside. Many choose to use this freedom of expression to say exactly what they think of western values, that rape victims deserve it for the way they dress, that there is no such thing as a Muslim having a non Muslim friend etc. They say this from within western nations. But if a western newspaper publishes stupid cartoons, then Muslims burn and destroy and protest in violent numbers threatening that "Europe's 911 will come". It appears that Muslims hold two sets of rules. One for them and one for us. They apply their set of rules to what we can and cant say without ANY regard for the fact that we are not Muslims and don't live in Muslim nations.

 

If they can say what they bloody well want in a democratic non-Muslim nation then so can a Danish newspaper. And that includes criticism of Judaism (another religion that has too long held its right to be 'off limits' to contrary opinion and critical afronts)

[damian 0]

How many of you would buy a plain t-shirt an draw a stick figure on the front with some text saying 'this is the prophet Mohamed'. Then wear that t-shirt in a non-Muslim nation? I wouldn't, besides looking like an immature idiot, I would be too damned scared.

 

And that is not right.

 

This whole thing reminds me of that idiotic death metal band that recently printed and sold a t-shirt saying 'Jesus is a c***t'. That t-shirt was banned in a western nation on the basis that it incited violence, or was a hate crime. I bet it wouldn't have been banned in an Islamic nation. I bet they don't even have laws against inciting violence or hate crimes.

[bushpig 0]

I agree spud. It is ridiculous that Islam is off limits to any form of criticism in non-islamic countries. What you have said pretty much sums up my feelings on the matter. Just because moslems say that any images of mohamed are off-limits doesn't mean that I, with my beliefs, have to abide by, let alone believe that. We are talking about beliefs here, and it has nothing to do with inciting racial hatred, or race crimes, as has been claimed.

[Fossil 0]

I fundamentaly disagree with people slagging off any genuinely held belief.

But the hypocrisy of the muslim nations as they rant about being offended is intolerable.

[damian 0]

An editor of a pretty much unknown newspaper in Indonesia, a nation with the largest Muslim population in the world, has been charged with blasphemy for publishing the cartoons. And rightly so. He faces 5 years in prison.

 

I may say '....and rightly so', but it scares me that religious rules determine the actual criminal law of a country to such an extreme. At least that is their country, not mine. [i admit that this crossover is not exactly unique to Islam nor isolated in the passages of history.]

[Thunderpants 0]

For once this is a subject I know a lot about.

 

Those drawings are an awful insult to all Muslims, and I think the Muslim community is quit right to feel offended.

 

Compare it to the Jewish jokes if you like. I have heard a few of them, and they are quite funny when told by a Jew, but when you (non Jew) try to tell the joke to others, the joke becomes racist and hateful.

 

Bad errors has been made on both sides, and it is sad that that it had to come this far.

The drawings came out in Jyllands-Posten in late September. Muslims in Denmark felt offended, Muslim countries felt offended. The ambassadors of many middle east countries asked for a meeting with Danish prime minister. He refused. Bad judgement!

His excuse – freedom of speech in Denmark is absolute, but that is a load of bull****

 

The Danish law states that you can not offend people’s religion, even the European Court Of Human Rights has ruled against the so called freedom of speech

 

From http://www.washtimes.com/op-ed/20060206-093850-5726r.htm

 

“Filmmaker Nigel Wingrove was not so lucky. His 1989 film, "Visions of Ecstasy," was a quasi-soft porn movie about the visions of St. Theresa of Avalon an erotic response to crucifixion. The British Board of Film Classification refused to give it a certificate. They couldn't brand it "pornographic" or prove that its content was blasphemous, but they presumed viewers would perceive it as such and blocked its distribution. Mr. Wingrove believed that his right of expression was violated and took the case to the European Court of Human Rights. In 1996, the court ruled against him.”

 

So are there degrees of freedom of speech depending on which religion you offend,????

 

Only when a delegation of Muslims from Denmark traveled to Middle East to spread the truth, and a handful of STUPID lies about Denmark and the drawings, things escalated. What did muslims do? They didn’t resort to terrorism!, no Mohammed-Bombs blew, no airplanes crashed, they simply did what Europeans and Americans have done in the past, they protested with their shopping baskets, and stopped buying Danish feta and butter.

 

Then little racist Denmark woke up

 

After 4 months Jyllands-Posten (the drawing publishing newspaper) finally woke up and sent out a half assed apology.

The Prime minister agreed to a meeting with the ambassadors, where he explained that he was not in a position to apologize, and gave a long speech about freedom of … speech

Meanwhile the support party for the dk government

http://www.danskfolkeparti.dk/sw/frontend/frontpage.asp?layout=0 A racist, opportunistic party started to pour gasoline on the fire by encouraging people to boycott Muslim countries and Muslim stores in Denmark.

 

A party that labels Islam as the “New black death of Europe” anyway, go and browse their website, there is plenty of info in English.

This party ensures the current governments majority.

 

The extreme rightwing (Nazi like) in Denmark invited to a public Koran burning session on Copenhagen central square… No one showed up though. But by then the rumors had already gone to Middle East.

People were demonstrating, something that we also do in the western world from time to time.

 

2 consulates have been set on fire, sad it had to come to that. The reports from Danish Medias are that in both Syria and Lebanon, it was the so called Syrian ultra religious “rent-A-Crowd” that did the burning. The Lebanese chief of police have been (yes!!) apologizing for the incident, saying that he could have stopped the crowd, but he think he was forced to choose between possible killing people or let the consulate go up in smoke.

(Note that Lebanon has been thru a bloody civil war between the extreme religious Syrian supported and the Christians)

 

Is it right to label 1.4 billion of Muslims as terrorists? I think it is horrible!!!

Truth is that terrorism is a very small problem in reality, I don’t mean to offend those that have been affected by it directly or has lost loved ones or family. Muslims does certainly not have monopoly on terrorism.

 

Bush, Blair and their gang have created an “outer enemy” in the terrorists, go read or re read 1984 by George Orwell.

 

Dansk Folkeparti has created an “inner enemy” in Islam go read… Mein Kampf

 

Why has no American newspaper or tv station published these drawings? In USA the freedom of speech is even greater than in Denmark, over there you are free to offend religion if you wish, but the media learned an important lesson during the 60s with the struggle for black’s civil rights.

 

Anyone who thinks that Europe is an easy place to be moderate Muslim is dreaming. In Denmark Muslims don’t even have their own cemetery They are not allowed!

But that is a slightly different discussion.

 

Finally, Bush can be critized for many things, including the weather.

I for one dislike almost everything he stands for, but only a few days after 911, we all saw him visiting a mosque, I know it was a media stunt set up by his gang, but it was still a wise thing to show that the American president does not think Muslims are bad in general.

Imagine if Danish prime minister would say in a clear voice to the Muslims: the Danish people are really sorry that Jyllands Posten has offended you, the Danish government does not support the picture painted of Muslims. (And sorry you don’t understand our humor;))

[Thunderpants 0]

damn, Dansk Folkeparti removed their english pages, sorry

[Ocean11 0]

> I for one dislike almost everything he stands for, but only a few days after 911, we all saw him visiting a mosque.

 

He rather spoiled the effect by declaring a Crusade soon after, and handing a massive, enormous, stupendous propaganda victory to his enemies. But then he was amazingly diplomatic about the cartoon problem too, pointing out that freedom of speech involves responsibilities.

 

When you consider how many Muslims there are living in the UK, the response has not exactly been a huge conflagration. There are surely a great many Muslims who aren't concerned with idolatory, but who are nevertheless quietly hurt by 'Christian' hypocrisy over this and by their haste to tar all Muslims with the same brush. Hell, you don't even have to be Muslim to find it offensive.

[damian 0]

Thunder - I liked the way you posed some of your arguments. It certainly seems that there was irresponsibility from the early stages.

 

Ocean - I suspect that there is going to be a bit of protesting this weekend in London. I have heard figures of 100,000 people.

[damian 0]

Perhaps there is christian hypocrisy.

 

Australia is (proudly for me) regarded as one of the least religious nations on earth. Even that senior guy in the catholic religion (the pope) said so himself. But, Australia like America is becoming 'fundamentalised' from a religious perspective: it keeps politicians in power if they construct a sense of old fashioned christian unity against the Islamic threat (which admittedly the politicians themselves exacerbate for their own benefit). There is currently a lot of debate in Australia about the potential release of an abortion pill. In an attempt, as an activist, to counter the ruling governments powerful sway on the people, a female Greens senator wore a t-shirt that had a message addressed to a catholic minister in the ruling right wing government: "Mr Abbott, get your rosaries off my ovaries". There is a big fuss about the t-shirt. The Greens senator has promised to wear it again, as is her right. She proposes that "It's not the T-shirt that needs changing, it's the prime minister's attitude, which we are seeing increasingly is about bringing fundamentalist religious views into the parliament."

 

If she is forced not to wear the t-shirt again, or punished, then I will concede an instance of real-time christian hypocrisy in right wing government.

[Kraut_in_HongKong 0]

 Quote:

Bad errors has been made on both sides, and it is sad that that it had to come this far.
The drawings came out in Jyllands-Posten in late September. Muslims in Denmark felt offended, Muslim countries felt offended. The ambassadors of many middle east countries asked for a meeting with Danish prime minister. He refused. Bad judgement!
His excuse – freedom of speech in Denmark is absolute, but that is a load of bull****
[/QB]

Well, those dansk muslims could have taken the newspaper to court then. But they opted not to do that.

To me it's very obvious that fundamental muslims do not fit into a democratic, pluralistic society where citizens constantly asked questions and demand answers. The pure demand for an apology from the danish state displays a complete lack of understanding of western liberal societies.

I fully understand that muslims get tired being seen as mad terrorists by the west. But their action now does not help very much to revert that view.

[Thunderpants 0]

 Quote:

Originally posted by Kraut_in_HongKong:

Well, those dansk muslims could have taken the newspaper to court then. But they opted not to do that.

Wrong,They did. The court rejected the case

 Quote:

To me it's very obvious that fundamental muslims do not fit into a democratic, pluralistic society where citizens constantly asked questions and demand answers. The pure demand for an apology from the danish state displays a complete lack of understanding of western liberal societies.

Kinda true, but those drawings have in no way contributed to any debate, they are plain hateful. They have as much relevance as a David Irving in a Holocoust debate.

 Quote:

I fully understand that muslims get tired being seen as mad terrorists by the west. But their action now does not help very much to revert that view.

Which actions? boycott of Danish Feta, or the butter?

If we are gonna talk any more about those 2 consulate fires, and judge a whole religion based on that, lets start with whe western civilization's latest embassy bombing
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/339313.stm

During the refomation in europe, the new protestant church was working overtime to cover ALL pictures of God, Profets and whatever they are called. 500 years later we can not accept Muslims wish not to have their profet portraited
Is that a "democratic, pluralistic society"
don't think so.

I would have prefered a debate about how religion fits into a modern society.
Sons and daughters of Muslim immigrants can not get integrated with their new country because their parents wil not allow them to mary someone non Muslim.
Why are many of the children of immigrants from Middle East countries never learning the language well.

Why is the unemployment rate is so much higher among people from certain countries.

Are they just a bunch of lazy terrorists? or is the "democratic, pluralistic society" reluctant welcome someone who looks different.

I should add that dislike most of the results that comes out of practicing religion.

[Ocean11 0]

 Quote:

Originally posted by Kraut_in_HongKong:

To me it's very obvious that fundamental muslims do not fit into a democratic, pluralistic society where citizens constantly asked questions and demand answers.

Yeah? Which society is that? I'd LOVE to live in a society like that. And what do you propose to do with these 'fundamental muslims' now that you've had your revelation?

 Quote:

I fully understand that muslims get tired being seen as mad terrorists by the west. But their action now does not help very much to revert that view.

There you go again. You can't help yourself, can you? LUMP THEM ALL TOGETHER!

Demanding apologies over international matters is always a strategic mistake, so I agree that Muslims who are doing it are wrong to do so. But holding a peaceful demonstration to show one's disapproval of somebody else's use of free speech doesn't seem like terrorism to me.

But again, I ask you, what percentage of 'the Muslims' are involving themselves in this fuss?

[veronica 2]

Has anyone here seen these cartoons?