Karnidge 2 Posted November 6, 2002 Share Posted November 6, 2002 Can someone in the know explain the concept of giri to me. Like why is it giri for me to buy people presents all the time when I take 2 hours off work? Stuff like that? Link to post Share on other sites
sexer 0 Posted November 7, 2002 Share Posted November 7, 2002 I don't know..anyone? Link to post Share on other sites
damian 0 Posted November 7, 2002 Share Posted November 7, 2002 Dont know, but I went to Germany for work a few weeks ago and man, was I unpopular for not buying the guys and girls back in the office any chocolate. Stuff that for a joke, I didnt even buy my girlfriend anything. Link to post Share on other sites
echineko 1 Posted November 7, 2002 Share Posted November 7, 2002 warui ne!? It's a good idea even if you don't like to. Link to post Share on other sites
damian 0 Posted November 7, 2002 Share Posted November 7, 2002 Why is it a good idea? I work for a western company, people travel all the time, travel is not a pleasure -> you spend more time in the air than you do on the ground, get jet lag and usually go direct from Narita to the office on return. They should buy me a stinking present. There are some 'it is best to do it in Japan this way because that is the way they like it' customs that I will not adopt just for the sake of having the locals like me more. Link to post Share on other sites
mogski 0 Posted November 7, 2002 Share Posted November 7, 2002 It's my money and I am not spending on anyone in the office!! Stuff that! I'll only spend if the person is of the opposite sex and I think I might be in with a chance...a remote one anyway. Nice to have dreams right? Link to post Share on other sites
damian 0 Posted November 7, 2002 Share Posted November 7, 2002 too right moggy! That post gave me a laugh. I think the problem I have with customs like this is that I am an "I", where as understand that the Japanese are a "we". Link to post Share on other sites
we-are-borg 0 Posted November 7, 2002 Share Posted November 7, 2002 We are Borg# Link to post Share on other sites
nagpants 1 Posted November 7, 2002 Share Posted November 7, 2002 Another trekkie! I generally go along with it, and it seems to have put me in the good books of a few people that help me out a lot in Japan. I bet I'll get flamed for that. Link to post Share on other sites
danz 0 Posted November 7, 2002 Share Posted November 7, 2002 I do it too... Its not such a big deal...probably costs like $5-10, and your co-workers (usually) geniunly appreciate it... is that such a bad thing?? danz Link to post Share on other sites
damian 0 Posted November 7, 2002 Share Posted November 7, 2002 when I visit someones house after an invitation for dinner or to stay the night (associated with a surfing trip) I will buy something IF i actually remember to do so. Link to post Share on other sites
damian 0 Posted November 7, 2002 Share Posted November 7, 2002 Quote: Originally posted by danz: and your co-workers (usually) geniunly appreciate it... is that such a bad thing?? danz not at all Danz, and dont take this as a flame, but I prefer to be appreciated for my personal qualities rather than my ability to adopt a rather childish custom that has no meaning what-so-ever to me culturally. In addition, just because it is deemed socially appropriate by the masss does not mean that I will ever adopt it. Link to post Share on other sites
mogski 0 Posted November 8, 2002 Share Posted November 8, 2002 I am with deebee on this one. To me buying gifts for people is like being asked by 10 people to get them this or that when you go on holiday. You end up spending all your timing doing stuff for others and nothing for your yourself. On top of that I don't get paid enough to feel any giri toward my colleagues. Not that they have anything to do with this except the fact that they work for the company that I do so I deem them guilty by association! Besides I have found that you can train people. If you don't buy once then they don't expect. Do it once you are stuck in the spiral. Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean11 0 Posted November 8, 2002 Share Posted November 8, 2002 If I ever end up working in an office again (and I might at that), I'm going to do this sort of shit assiduously. Wherever I go, I will fork out the necessary dosh to buy the crap that they have at the airport. Japanese people often tell me that I know more about Japanese culture than they do (sometimes rightly sometimes not), but when the shit hits the fan, the one bit of Japanese culture that really counts is the buying of omiage. I'll buy the big box too, not the cheap little one, and take it around to people I've never even seen before. Being cheap here definitely does not pay. I remember one of my colleagues coming back from Taiwan with some delicious little cakes with buttery pastry encasing a simpla divine fruity filling. It really made my otherwise miserable day at work, and gave me a fondness for Taiwan that would otherwise have been absent from my life. Link to post Share on other sites
damian 0 Posted November 8, 2002 Share Posted November 8, 2002 Quote: Originally posted by Ocean11: when the shit hits the fan, the one bit of Japanese culture that really counts is the buying of omiage. I am pissing into the wind with this attitude, but as mentioned, when the shit hits the fan I hope that it is my loyalty, ethics, trustworthiness, honesty etc that will really count. If those attributes don't count with some people then those people can get stuffed 'cause I don't want them near me any way. Link to post Share on other sites
danz 0 Posted November 8, 2002 Share Posted November 8, 2002 hey... no worries debee...we are all entitled to our opinions... and now, here is where I rip into to you! To call a particular aspect of a culture other than your own "childish" is rather harsh, no?? you are suggesting your way is better...but to the 125000000people you are now co-existing with, the frame of reference is different...and YOU are the "childish" one... I generally feel there is a bit of difference between certain "attitudes" and "customs"...giri is a "custom"..."shikata ga nai" is an attitude...I have no problems playing along with some of the customs, but when it comes to "Attitude", I am with you 100%...get my drift??? danz Link to post Share on other sites
damian 0 Posted November 8, 2002 Share Posted November 8, 2002 Yes, it is a little harsh. calling a foriegn custom childish. I suppose I view the gift giving thing childish only from the stand point of my way of thinking. I cant really justify that description, so I will retract it. Over and above the reasons I have mentioned already, I have difficulty do things just because that is what is socially expected of you. Being Australian doesnt help much when it comes to understanding "customs"... we dont really have any in the same way an old country like Japan does. I suppose a wedding is an example of a custom in western society that I cant stand. Nothing wrong with marriage, or a ceremony, but the social norms and standards make me sick. I also tire a little (in my very short time here) of being judged as a "good" gaijin/alien registration card holder on the basis of whether I bend over backwards to adapt my ways and means to what is the social norm in Japan. The same applied to my 29.75 years in Australia. There are social norms (but not customs) that if you just MUST behold. They also turned my stomach. Mainstream sport (or "sports" as they call it) is a prime example. As an "ozzy" you are a "fag" if you dont talk sport at least 18 hours a day, follow a team from every code and have pay TV beaming every game after game of golf, tennis, cricket, footy, horse racing etc into your lounge room. I honestly dont know how to score a game of tennis, I dont understand how test cricket is won or lost and I dont know the name of teh Australian cricket team captian. I told this to a guy once and he literally went pale and quite simply couldnt communicate with me (thank goodness!). This is the type of soxial conditioning that I dont appreciate. I wont bend to the conform in my home country so neither will I in another. However I am a hypocrite as there are some local customs that I am quite happy to adopt... shoes off at the door etc. Sometimes I really giggle at some gaijins who get a buzz out of calling themselves just that, as though they humbly accept the status and then do everything in their power to win the admiration of the locals. To get voted a "good gaijin". I swear I have come across people who are ashamed of their western-ness. On the other hand, there are some expat people who are sickening and I also make an effort not to be classified with them either. Perhaps I have chosen the giri thing as a token victim of my seemingly evident desire to be anti-conformist. On the other hand, I really dont like being judged on the superficialities of the quality of my gift or the manner in which it was wrapped. Essentially, if I win some mates who are Japanese then I want it to be because they like the person, note my ability to be a good gaijin. After reading the above it probably comes as little suprise that my best buddy is a dog. Ok, I have bared my intelectually feeble chest, so take aim and fire at will. Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean11 0 Posted November 8, 2002 Share Posted November 8, 2002 I'm enjoying this thread a lot - it cuts to the bone, not only of Japan, but of Australia as well. The sports mad thing is kinda funny and kinda sad, especially where all these top sporting schoolboys in Australia go and top themselves when they get to the sporting pinnacle. Although I quite like the omiage giri, I can't stand the shokuba ryoko routine. You hand over quite a considerable sum of money, some 24,000 yen or more during the course of the year. This is given to some mediocre personality who then plans a mind-numbing trip to nowhere on a bus and purchases a revolting heap of junk food and junk alcohol with your precious funds. From 7 am, you're enclosed in a smoky bus, with people who wallow about in the aisles like pigs, drinking and displaying the most shamefully puerile behaviour while the lady announcer squeaks on about nothing. You arrive at the randomly picked destination, perhaps leaving a few nasty pavement pizzas to mark your visit, burp, and get back on the travelling pigsty. As if one didn't already see if enough of these people, you have to see them debasing themselves, instead of spending the time and the money on your family who you don't actually see 9 hours a day 5 days a week. While I played the omiage game, one or two of these awful road trips was enough for me. Link to post Share on other sites
rach 1 Posted November 8, 2002 Share Posted November 8, 2002 I'll gladly buy the omiyage. What I really don't like it when I go somewhere with Japanese people, omiyage buying seems to be more important than the trip itself. It's as if they go somewhere in order to buy omiyage, and oh yeah if theres an hour left over they might get a chance to take in a temple before piling back on the bus. Link to post Share on other sites
mogski 0 Posted November 8, 2002 Share Posted November 8, 2002 I was thinking about this on the train this morning (thinking about forum things on the train in the am seems to be becoming a tradition) and well I thought semi hard - it is the morning afterall - and here is what I came up. deebee has raised a valid point. Being appreciate for your personal qualities. Is this not more important than whether you subscribe to a custom or not? Perhaps a little more of this and we might see a massive change in the Japan we all know. Giving something as giri does it not set a pretext for everything you give to be viewed as giri? If one gives giri all the time at what point and how will people receiving this ever know if you are giving it as anythign more than giri? Must you make an extra special effort to let them know that you are giving it because you care. Becasue you want to. Because you think they deserve it? Well back to the Starbucks coffee. (Another mornign tradition.) Link to post Share on other sites
damian 0 Posted November 8, 2002 Share Posted November 8, 2002 I am hearing you mogski. I want to give because the act means something to both parties invloved, not because I am behaving like a robot in accordance with my 'programming'. Link to post Share on other sites
akibun 0 Posted November 8, 2002 Share Posted November 8, 2002 I think I understand this. But I do know when something is giri, and when something is not giri. For me I can tell difference. Link to post Share on other sites
miteyak 0 Posted November 8, 2002 Share Posted November 8, 2002 I used to hate giri, partly because I went away most weekends, and it became pretty hard to know when to get it! More recently, however, i've come to accept it, and quite enjoy it. It really does improve the office atmosphere, and general relations between all, not to mention break up the monotomy of the day. Just don't be cheap. It really erks me when someone buys omiage just because they have to, and the product tastes like the money and effort not put into getting it. Link to post Share on other sites
veronica 2 Posted November 8, 2002 Share Posted November 8, 2002 If you buy and give with an "I hate this omiyage lark", they will know that. And they will know you are doing it begrudgingly. So it's not worth doing it like that at all. But if you genuinely want to give omiyage, they will also know that too. And it will make a whole big positive difference. You can choose. Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean11 0 Posted November 8, 2002 Share Posted November 8, 2002 You are walking down a rocky valley in a mountain. Occasionally ominous rockfalls occur. Your shoelace comes undone. Do you stop to tie your shoelace and maybe get hit by a rockfall where you stand, or do you keep on moving and perhaps get hit by rocks up ahead? In this situation, what personal choice do you have? The choice of whether to tie your shoelaces with excellence or not. Titter... But it's the same with buying omiage. The bloke who brought back the dainties from Taiwan always had his shoelaces tied very well too I noticed. Link to post Share on other sites
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