Dokumanju 0 Posted November 22, 2002 Share Posted November 22, 2002 hey everybody, this is a shameless plug to promote my hippie leanings. anyway... this sunday is buy nothing day - a day to refrain from spending and have a quiet day at home (or at the hill) but the point is to have a think about the impact that shopping has on a small scale (ie u have no cash) and on a bigger scale (ie buying things u don't really need supports things like globalization, pollution and other not nice stuff). for the 411, check out http://www.adbusters.org/campaigns/bnd/ or http://kyoto.cool.ne.jp/bndjapan/japan/ for the same thing in japanese. cheers Link to post Share on other sites
snowboard_freak 0 Posted November 22, 2002 Share Posted November 22, 2002 You'll be walking up the mountain then! If your going to spend it at the mountain that is. Link to post Share on other sites
miteyak 0 Posted November 22, 2002 Share Posted November 22, 2002 The Japanese economy needs all the help consumers can give, they should have a 'spend yer kids college education money' day instead. Link to post Share on other sites
mogski 0 Posted November 22, 2002 Share Posted November 22, 2002 Hate to shait all over your idea there, but I think the last thing that Japanese economy needs is a day like this. There should in fact be a "spend all you have day" just to kick start the economy. Link to post Share on other sites
damian 0 Posted November 22, 2002 Share Posted November 22, 2002 Quote: Originally posted by Dokumanju: buying things...supports things like globalization, pollution and other not nice stuff). oh-my-god-Ihaveneverheard somuch****ingcrapinmylife. Tell me doku, have you every caught a chair lift, an aeroplane, bought a warm jumper, eaten food that you have not killed yourself. Hang on, you said "buying things you DON'T need". So, if we all dispensed with buying things we don't need and only consumed what we did need, the world would be a cleaner and less global place. Hmmm, how many pairs of socks do you have? How many CD's do you own? When did you decide that you "needed" a new snowboard, how did you make that decision? If you want to do something good for the world then walk out into the country side and pick up every bit of garbage you see. It would benefit the planet more than taking sales from people who need income to feed the family. Also, every buck that you do not spend on Sunday is a buck that the shopkeep does not have to get a hair cut, which is a buck the barber does not have to get his teeth checked, which is a buck that the dentist doesnt have to spend at the ski resort, which is a buck which the resort doesnt have on their bottom line, which is one more reason for them to shut down leaving you with one less place to enjoy what is no doubt a HUGE consumer driven activity and enterprise. Man, it must really cause some internal discomfort knowing that 364 days a year you are betraying your greater cause. I hope Sunday makes you feel better. Hypocrite. Link to post Share on other sites
damian 0 Posted November 22, 2002 Share Posted November 22, 2002 The two M's (mogski and Miteyak, aka THE YAK) have also added the very real economic reasoning that I neglected in favour of having an open giggle at the suggestion. You know, if it were 300 years ago people would be starving just as much as today, drought and famine just as common, disease and vermin just as bad, crime and corruption just as evil. The only thing they didnt have was polution, but since they only lived to the average age of 30, they really didnt get the chance to breathe the fresh air now did they. Link to post Share on other sites
miteyak 0 Posted November 22, 2002 Share Posted November 22, 2002 Cant find the stats right now, so i'm writing from memory, but I once found published figures for comparative efficiency per head of different transports. Anyone who has flown from Britain to Japan has polluted as much as the average car driver does in five years. If they've been home and back, of course that's triple. Thailand for winter? ooooo that's bad. take the train, but dont get righteous about cars if you fly. Answers dont lie in token gestures, they lie with the "enemy" . Alternatives with equal lifestyle benefits need to be promoted and developed, not a clock reversal session. Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean11 0 Posted November 22, 2002 Share Posted November 22, 2002 If you don't like capitalism, there are other countries that are making a stand for rugged individualism, self-sufficiency, and isolationism. Go to North Korea. The back country might be very good there, but I doubt many people have the energy to go... I enjoyed the way that site was er, marketed too. I wonder where they got the ideas for that... Link to post Share on other sites
miteyak 0 Posted November 22, 2002 Share Posted November 22, 2002 Sorry Deebee, but yer wrong. Three hundred years ago, despite there being far less people, the chances of a violent death were many times higher, disease, death, famine, starvation common throughout the whole world. What we have now are better conditions on average all round than ever before. What we also have is greater disparity, hoever. This certainly gives the feeling and impression of greater poverty, and with all things being relative, a greater feeling of disenfranchisement by the world's poorest. (along with the disgust/guilt felt by pseudo socialist kids of the upper middle classes of western societies). Link to post Share on other sites
damian 0 Posted November 22, 2002 Share Posted November 22, 2002 Gad zuks man, do you mean to say that times were in fact tougher all those years ago!? How can it be so, for in ye days of olde there was no Nike, Microsoft, coca-cola etc etc to cause drought and famine. Yep, these days aint so bad. Just today I read an article about some scientists who believe that a micro organism living in your urinary tract may help them solve the global energy crisis. Say you I speak crapple? Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean11 0 Posted November 23, 2002 Share Posted November 23, 2002 I like globalisation. It brings good things. The Internet is one of the principle expressions of globalisation, and my whole lifestyle is based on it. If somebody comes to me and tries to take it away from me calling it 'evil' or whatever, I'll cut their throat from ear to ear. Link to post Share on other sites
damian 0 Posted November 23, 2002 Share Posted November 23, 2002 Just to clear up any confusion, Ocean supports globalisation. Link to post Share on other sites
dave21 0 Posted November 23, 2002 Share Posted November 23, 2002 So anti-globalization protesters are against the Internet? Gee, and there was me thinking it was all about environmental destruction, mistreatment of labor, and devious use of tax havens and legal and accounting loopholes! Spilling a boatload of oil and then not paying because your old wreck was registered in the one place that has no laws. It's funny how wrong you can be! Link to post Share on other sites
Dokumanju 0 Posted November 23, 2002 Author Share Posted November 23, 2002 geez, everybody it's just one day. Just one day. just go one day without buying anything. but i guess the main reason in having such a day is to get people to think, which, judging by all the replies this thread has got in a few hours, it's achieved. japanese economy needs more consumer spending ? hmm...u're saying more spending will have sum kind of trickle down effect and make everybody have a better life? i think the problems with the japanese economy have more to do with the an unusable banking system and a ministry of finance that defies the world of free markets. go read "dogs and demons" by alex kerr, it has about how the finance ministry has manipulated the japanese economy and turned it into a run-away train that's fueled by govt spending into useless projects like, shall i name a few, more highways that go nowhere, high definition analog tv, phs, ETC, another dam in nagano, cementing over every river in japan - all done in the name of making japan a better place. all i'm saying is spend only when u need to. u want a new snowboard? sure go ahead and buy it but don't buy one every year just cos it's the latest and has a cool picture on it. i get the idea that sum people who have posted are a bit mislead about what globalism is. globalism is the opening up of industry and markets all over the world - on the surface it seems like nothing new - export industries overseas, jump start sum backward countrie's economies by providing jobs and help them move develop. unfortunately the reality is not quite like that. The reality is 10 yr old vietnamese girls work in sweatshops for pitiful amounts of money 16 hours a day just so we can wear cool shoes, wear cool threads and have cool backpacks. is there any trickle down effect here? is buying cool shit gonna help any of these people? Link to post Share on other sites
Higuma 0 Posted November 23, 2002 Share Posted November 23, 2002 I agree that Wants and Needs are two different things.. I am constantly having to keep myself in check on these very thing... But, I am an adult and will decide how to be responsible to Mother Earth myself... thankyouveryf'n much... I remember how the self rightous tree huggers got all distressed about 10 years ago about these trees on Vancouver Island - the big one was about 600 years old and was in the middle of an area slated for forestation.. They called it the Carmannah Giant (Carmannah Valley)... Anyways the Greenpeace / Treehuggers brought HUGE publicity to this and as a result 1,000s of people visited the remote area - leaving their garbage, making errosion prone trails and in the end seriously threatening the very trees they where trying to protect... The area was eventually closed I think to keep the Nature lovers from breaking peices of bark of the tree as a soveigneer.. seems the tree had little bark left on the bottom 15 feet or so... Go figure.... "Be carefull what you wish for - you just might get it" Link to post Share on other sites
klingon 10 Posted November 23, 2002 Share Posted November 23, 2002 I plan to buy some food, a new TV, a DVD player, some DVDs and go to a restaurant for dinner. How's that? Link to post Share on other sites
miteyak 0 Posted November 23, 2002 Share Posted November 23, 2002 I get the impression that some people who have posted see globalization as a black and white issue. I get the impression that they would rather a company employ good ol' Americans to make nike shoes instead of giving vietnamese the choice of whether they need to work at a factory (only some places break legal work codes, and thats a legal matter)to drag themselves out of poverty (whilst getting paid 20-40,000 us dollars to chat w/japanese ols). These are not consumer issues, they are legal ones. I, for one, however, wont be spending any money on sunday, I have none, and I have to go and celebrate the subjugation and destruction of a civilization with some friends. Link to post Share on other sites
damian 0 Posted November 23, 2002 Share Posted November 23, 2002 Quote: Originally posted by dave21: devious use of tax havens and legal and accounting loopholes! the other stuff is naughty, but as for the quoted 'complaint' above.... give me a break. Link to post Share on other sites
damian 0 Posted November 23, 2002 Share Posted November 23, 2002 Quote: Originally posted by Dokumanju: The reality is 10 yr old vietnamese girls work in sweatshops for pitiful amounts of money 16 hours a day just so we can wear cool shoes, wear cool threads and have cool backpacks. is there any trickle down effect here? is buying cool shit gonna help any of these people? Well, they work there probably because they CHOOSE TO DO SO. Why? It is better than starvation. In Australia a lot of big company call centres move to places where labour and land is cheap ie Tasmania. Are they corporate monsters taking advantage of people who will work for less money? Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean11 0 Posted November 23, 2002 Share Posted November 23, 2002 Quote: Originally posted by dave21: Gee, and there was me thinking it was all about environmental destruction, mistreatment of labor, and devious use of tax havens and legal and accounting loopholes! That's because you misuse language and consequently are deeply confused. No surprise there. Globalisation means the pursuit of economic and other human behaviour on a globabl scale. Of course some bad eggs are going to take their criminal tendencies global, but that doesn't mean that the majority do. To use the word as if it meant only that minority behaviour is completely perverse. Anti-globablization protesters, in the sense that you use it, might just as well be against the Internet as anything else. After all criminals use it to commit international fraud. Now you've been told, don't make the same stupid mistake again. Now, anybody want to celebrate Sunday by having their throat cut? Link to post Share on other sites
dave21 0 Posted November 23, 2002 Share Posted November 23, 2002 "Just a few bad eggs" What a dumb comment! That's what people are protesting about! If you actually bothered to listen, you might notice, though I doubt it.... Of course, you can always misconstrue what people represent just from the tag given to them by the media and dismiss them all as fanatics for purile redneck "humor", if that's what turns you on. Doesn't make you right though As for the hardman online crap....What, are you 14 years old? Haven't you got any assignments to do? Link to post Share on other sites
Higuma 0 Posted November 23, 2002 Share Posted November 23, 2002 Dave21... Since you're new perhaps I'll point out that you can easily Quote someone's thread by clicking on the little quotations on the top right of the posted message... Give it a try so you don't misquote someone.. Like stating - Ocean11 said "a few bad eggs" in his post - He did not say that... he said "Of course SOME bad eggs..." perhaps not so different to you but still a misquote... I for one think that "some" in this context means a lot more than you gave him credit... The first way to not get yourself taken seriously is to rant about a misquote on your second post to the board.... Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean11 0 Posted November 23, 2002 Share Posted November 23, 2002 My dear dave21, I listened to what you were saying, and I thought it was dumb. Reread your post, such as it is, and Dokumanju's, and tell me that it doesn't suggest that globalization itself is bad. Now you're telling me, no that's not what you were saying, you were only talking about those whose globalism was unethical, and you chide me, with some nice strawman rhetoric, for mocking protesters, presumably people like yourself. But then if you and DM are representative of this species, then the airy-fairiness and plain wrongness of what you say doesn't merit much better. Still, if it really is redneck behaviour to point that out, I'm proud to be a redneck. For a bit of perspective, I suggested that there's far more to globalization than what you suggest. Indeed, my whole lifestyle is 'global', from my personal relationships, to the food and clothes I purchase, to the job that keeps me so abundantly supplied with slotties. I'd be very surprised to hear that you were much different (apart from the salary), for all your lack of realization of it, and apparent self-flagellating discomfiture when you do realize it. As for me being a 'hardman', far from it. It's just a bit of bravado to represent the strength of my feeling on the subject. No doubt there are people in the world who actually would cut your throat for the threat your way of 'thinking' represents to their meagre livelihood. But you go ahead and have your hair-shirt day. As DM points out, it's only one day, nothing to be taken seriously, and in the grand scheme of things it won't make the least bit of difference. So dave21, if you want to convince anyone that you are in fact a thinker, just what is globalization, and how are you not involved? Think of it as an assignment if you like... (I'll forgive you if wait till Monday to post as I expect you won't be using utilities like electricity and the Internet tomorrow. I will be though.) Link to post Share on other sites
SKI 15 Posted November 23, 2002 Share Posted November 23, 2002 Will be a normal day for me. Link to post Share on other sites
Dokumanju 0 Posted November 24, 2002 Author Share Posted November 24, 2002 wow, more than 20 posts in 2 days! who would have thought so many people would have an opinion on this. anyway, i think everybody's taking this thing way too personally. I'm not telling anybody to do anything. just spreading ideas not offensive to anyone, unless u're offended by the idea of new ideas. i am not sum militant leftwing anarchist. I don't intend to topple any govts in the name of love, peace and marijuana. Am i a hypocrit ? good question. if me being able to go snowboarding while other people can't drink clean water and have no electricity makes me a hypocrit, then i guess i am. In my own little way i'm trying not to be a hypocrit as much as i can. The whole point of this day, let me repeat, is to refrain from buying anything but the main objective is to have a moment to reflect on our own consumerism. I think that's already been achieved among the people on this forum. as for people in under developed countries CHOOSING to be exploited - that has to be one of the most heartless and intolerant things i've ever heard. yeh, as if young girls in Cambodia choose to banged by fat old white men, have their hymens sewed up again so they can get knocked up by more pedophilic sex tourists. What? they're doing it for the money so they don't starve? this has to be the most popular excuse given by sex tourists that get caught. The girls can make much more money out of me than they could doing anything else. a self denial guilt avoidance cop out if i ever saw one. as for the sweatshops, don't u think these girls (and it is almost exclusively girls cos they r the ones most easily taken advantage of) should be in school? u know bettering themselves, getting ready for a career as an adult? if the people making the items could actually afford to own the things they were making instead of having all of it sent overseas to more developed countries, i wouldn't have such a problem with it. no matter how u cut it, exploitation is exploitation. Have a think about this, this sunday. zenta will be watching u but even if u're a good boy or girl, he won't be giving u anything! Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts