Ocean11 0 Posted May 20, 2003 Share Posted May 20, 2003 > The world economy would be just fine with no America. Space exploration, medical advances and other scientific endeavors brought forth by the US really aren't neccesary for the world community. Dissaster relief to poor nations - waste! As if no other countries were capable of all of this, and to a higher standard in many cases. Just because US technology dominates, it doesn't make it the best. That's a very common fallacy believed in by many non-Americans too. But it's a fallacy nonetheless. Link to post Share on other sites
yodel 0 Posted May 20, 2003 Share Posted May 20, 2003 Kintaro, you crack me up Link to post Share on other sites
BagOfCrisps 24 Posted May 20, 2003 Share Posted May 20, 2003 I don't care, and don't give it a moments thought. Silly question if you ask me. Just my thought, writing from sunny (ahem) London >> Some of the those few people on here who seem to claim overt anti-US sentiment , and in particular targeting Ocean11...... have you not noticed how he often very stongly critisizes the UK (or anything else he disagrees with), very often? I often think he has major gripe with his home country, but always find his posts to be interesting, well thought out and well written. Link to post Share on other sites
miteyak 0 Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 Americas aid to developing countries-often no more than dumping surplus agricultural produce on countries to the detriment of local markets... Americas aid... how about paying yer dues to the UN... Americas aid... one of the lowest % GNP aid packages of wetsren countries, and inevitably linked to buying US goods... Medical advances... the US gets the first advance, patents it, and then makes the world beg for it (AIDS drugs anyone?) Space, ah, I'll concede on that one... (for now) Sorry, but a knee jerk reaction to a rather self-righteous statement regarding the positive role the US plays vis a vis the world at large. I really dont think the US, or many other western nations are particularly selfless in their international transactions. Inevitably, any country withdrawing from the world stage would be only harming itself in the long term. Link to post Share on other sites
kintaro 0 Posted May 21, 2003 Author Share Posted May 21, 2003 db- thanks for your analysis. Found it interesting. I hope you answer Fattwins question. Fattwins- db would probably disagree w/ me but I'm sinking every yen I can into the market...some commodities. I think there are some very undervalued stocks out there. On your homefront I'm eyeing Kingsway Financial (KFS) , Nexen (NXY), and Ameron Int. (AMN). I know you didn't ask but personally I think "sitting on it" is never a good idea. Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean11 0 Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 miteyak, no need to concede space particularly. I think Russia, China and France are a fair ways along too. China and France will bung you a satellite into space, China cheaply with some risk, France at 'igher cost, and I believe Russia has set some major space records (like first there, first to orbit, longest time in space) and is an unsung partner of NASA. Russia has largely been responsible for the big twist in NASA's knickers over the years. Only America has landed on the moon, but that was a pretty pointless Cold War stunt according to some (I'm not qualified to comment on that). BTW, I thought the US had paid its UN dues, or is there still some outstanding debt? Link to post Share on other sites
nzlegend 1 Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 Quote: Originally posted by db: American sport is to me somewhat irrelevant outside of America. It never fails to amaze me that a nation such as America pretty much fails to field an international team. In defence of America I think this is a bit of a stereotype. The only real insular sports are American Football which is no more insular than Aussie Rules football in Australia and Baseball ( which is popular here in Japan and Canada). Ice Hockey is an international sport and the Americans and the Canadians do there darndest to beat eachother and all the Europeans with high calibre international teams. Basketball is hugely popular around the world and the USA fields high quality teams in the World Champs and the Olympics. Golf is also very popular around the world with Americans competing against the rest of the world on a daily basis and involved in many team event like the Ryder Cup and Eisenhower. Swimming is definitely international and team orientated and I am positive American swimmers are watching Hoogie in Holland and Thorpie in Australia much more closely than those on the home front. The Americans every 4 years put out a strong "team" that embarrass everyone else ( to our displeasure) at the biggest sport event of the all, "The Olympics". nothing wrong with the quality of the Americans "team" here. And all the sports at the olympics _ Gymnastics to cycling, have American participation at other world events. Volleyball is hugely popular worldwide and has one of the highest participation levels of any sport. America has quality International teams footing it with Italy and Cuba at the top of the heap. Soccer is the worlds number one sport, America has growing Pro league and has been all the recent "World cup" finals (where was Australia? ) and scared a few European teams with a game of power and speed. If American soccer continues to grow they will win the world cup finals one day, mark my words. Tennis,no doubt America has been competitive (not so much lately) in the "Davis Cup" The list goes on, American sport is not just Football and baseball, sure Americans love those two sports and so what? they put out kick ass teams in everyother sport on earth, I could just as easily say the same about Australia and Aussie Rules, people in Victoria are wrapped up in an irrelevant sport that exists only to them. But Australia is like America, they love their special sports and the also love the international sports. Link to post Share on other sites
scouser 4 Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 Quote: If American soccer continues to grow they will win the world cup finals one day, mark my words ...pity you won't be around to see it Link to post Share on other sites
miteyak 0 Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 Yeah, you may be right about the dues, I'm a little out of date, (although it'll be interesting to see what the latest round of rubber stamp failure wiull do for future relations). I conceded space because I didn't want to be too negative, but you're right, of course. In practical humanitarian use terms, other countries offer cheaper ways of getting stuff where it needs to be. (I'm sure star wars will aid love, peace and goodwill to all (wo)men in ways we can't even begin to imagine, however). As an aside, I did hear somewhere that 20% of world inventions/developments come from the Brits (must be the elitist education system). I'm sure others will pick up the tab for development of these ideas if the US drops out of the bidding... Link to post Share on other sites
damian 0 Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 Quote: Originally posted by Fattwins: ...money...db what do you sugest the best thing is to do now, sit on it? I wouldnt mind knowing what to do with mine. Fattwins: That question is one of the nastiest questions to ask me. It is so hard for me to answer in a nice sound-bite. I can't give an easy answer with any integrity. An investment advisor or stockbroker would give you an answer, a nice easy answer. Never ask them for an answer. I hope that sentence and what follows does not sound condescending. In general, my answer is this: - never trust an investment specialists advice. These people are paid to pretend that they can predict the future. The more people that they convince they can do this impossibility, the more they get paid. - never try to predict the future (ie "this market will stop falling and go up now") - there are very few good investment opportunities available to the individual unless that person puts in immense amounts or personal research and self discovery. - what suits me will not suit another. So even if it makes money for me, it may well not work for the personality type/temperament of another person. - frequently being right about the markets is not required to make a good investment (ego is an aspiring investors enemy) - successful investing over time is about 95% personal psychology - NEVER do anything unless you have a well researched PLAN that is WRITTEN on paper. This plan MUST suite YOUR personality. You MUST follow your plan. - understand that losing money is part of the business. It is perfectly ok. I lose money on 70% of my investments, yet I can make 50 - 100% per year. Last year was a well below average year and I made 25%. This year I had made 55% by 1 March. By 30 March I had only made 20%. It is amazing how much money you can make by being wrong most of the time. This is all explained by mathematical expectancy. - only ever risk a very small % of your available capital on each investment/speculation. If I choose to buy something, I only lose 3% of my capital if I am wrong. I can afford to be wrong many many times. If you risk 20% of your capital on each investment, you can not afford to be wrong many times at all. (lose 3 times in a row and you are left in a position where you need to make over 50% on remaining capital just to get back to your starting capital). - ALWAYS, ALWAYS let winners run and cut losers. This should be prominent in your plan. Incase it didn't drive home, YOU MUST HAVE A PLAN. - Be very careful trying to pick bottoms (and tops) in the market. I never do it. The usual scenario is this: a person tries to pick the market bottom, they are wrong, their investment loses 30%, they respond by deciding that this is now a long term growth investment and it is ok as stock markets always go up. - understanding mass psychology will help you understand the markets. - no one will ever understand the markets - never risk 1 cent until you fully understand why it is a curse that humans are poorly designed in that we are lumbered with the 3 most useless emotions: hope, fear and greed. Understand how HFG affect you and other people. Learn how to profit from it (this is what is at the foundation of my strategy - profiting from the HFG of the masses). - realise that no-one knows much about anything, including me. - emotionally detach yourself from the meaning and value of money. This is a lot easier if you only risk money that you do not need. But if you do you may well not respect that money and will blow it away. Take this into account in your WRITTEN PLAN. - always think in percentages. Understand that losing USD500,000 is nothing if it represents only a small % of your capital (wouldn't that be nice!) - understand that the human mind is wired very poorly and is designed to lose money. - understand that sitting on your money is an investment in itself. I could go on for a long time adding to the above list. There are some important things I have not mentioned. So how about an answer to the question. I recommend that you only ever invest in something that you fully understand and can make the decision on your own with ZERO input (regarding likely profit potential) from another person. Until you are in such a position, look for the most powerful tool available... compound interest. Not very sexy and not very risky but very powerful. Other than that, buy a house and enjoy the long term security that it can provide. Reduce useless debt and enjoy the knowledge that your house repayments are not at all stretching your financial capabilities and should you lose your job, you can continue to service the debt for a medium period whilst comfortably finding a buyer for your property, even in a depressed market. One practical thing you can do in the meantime is to never watch CNN or CNBC or any other financial TV. In the end, the key to making money in the markets is letting yourself make money. This is not very helpful as it requires several layers of abstraction to be penetrated until you 'see the light' (puke, I can't believe I just said that!) Sorry if I sound condescending. Link to post Share on other sites
damian 0 Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 One more thought: A life long committment to investing is a voyage in self discovery. You will learn more about yourself than you will make money. This stuff called money is a by product and not the ultimate goal. All the parts of the investing puzzle are the last things you might have expected to be important. Once you get all these bits together and working as a system you need to add the last ingredient which is your pysche and everything that it has developed to become along your investing journey. Once this happens you will be in the Zone and everything you do will apear so obvious and effortless to everyone else. I am not in the Zone. I suspect that the more you want to be in the Zone, the more elusive it becomes. Plus the moment you think you know something, you know nothing and you drop out of the Zone. This is why I do not like talking about investing. Kamo - regarding American international sport. You are right, but there is something that still doesn't sit right with me. Link to post Share on other sites
Fattwins 0 Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 Thanks db I need sometime to digest all of that. Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean11 0 Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 How about moving all this over to a new investing thread, so that we can maintain the purity of our America-bashing? (BTW, somebody called 3nd3r@db's_house is offering something he calls 'the Plan' on eBay with bids starting at $40. He says there's 600 pages of it!) PS, I love it when people reveal a passion for something on these threads... Link to post Share on other sites
kintaro 0 Posted May 22, 2003 Author Share Posted May 22, 2003 Yes, by all means, let the bashing continue.. Miteyuk, your medical advances comment hummored me. US "gets the first advance, patents it and makes the world beg for it.." First, GETS the first advance? Sure, there's this really lucky place in Minnesota where "advances" just fall from the sky and are "got!" And then, the nerve to patent! Are you against capitalism or patents or both? As I see it the revenues generated during the tenure of a patent provide tons of capital needed to do further research for new ways to save lives through med. technology. Now I didn't suggest the US is the only kuni doing good here but you can't even concede there's been some very positive advances coming out of the US in this area? I could be wrong. I see you are a "designer." Do you design and give whatever it is that you designed to your designer competition for he or she to sell while begging for dinner? C'mon! Barely worth a comment, but can't help myself. You say "US Aid - dumping surplus agriculture produce on countries to the detriment of local markets." So what do you suggest? Discontinue food aid in order for the local markets to THRIVE? Again, could be wrong but perhaps the benefits outweigh the costs. 2 local farmers loose money, a village get's fed. Hhhhm? Finally, way to go. You conceded to space b/c you didn't want to be TOO negative. But OCean has set you straight..as you tell him But you're right, OF COURSE." I hear Little BoPeep is looking for you.. Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean11 0 Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 Kintaro, what I said about space is a matter of fact. That's all. You don't have to be a sheep to recognize facts. Nor anti-American. Link to post Share on other sites
kintaro 0 Posted May 22, 2003 Author Share Posted May 22, 2003 You're right, of course! Link to post Share on other sites
miteyak 0 Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 Kintaro, you read but you don't understand now do you? My point is that these actions are not selfless, not that no-one benefits, and I did add that it's the same for other western countries. My beef was in the way US advances, aid, etc are touted as 'the world cant survive without us' and your belief in it's philanthropic nature. If you think I'm a sheep, toddle on off to the abortion debate will you? The fact that so many people feel the same way should tell you something, shouldn't it. Maybe the fact that your military friends (ie a bunch of individuals who have chosen the same way of life) all agree with you should also tell you something. Or are you all sheep too? Oh, and how childish, the 'miteyuk'... Bit like if I were to call you 'kintama' which, of course, I wouldn't Link to post Share on other sites
barok 0 Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 Gotta say though miteyak, blasting American foreign policy is all well and good, whatever, i agree that it is no good, but then to laud Britain in the same post - are you kidding ? Can you really blast American foreign policy and then praise England in the same breath ? If I thought there was a point to it, or if I had some strange grudge or whatever, I would be up for a little England-bashing, but even then the target is just too big for it to be fun. Link to post Share on other sites
miteyak 0 Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 Barok, My point was that other countries too contribute to 'the world' and it's not only the US. If you read earlier points you will notice that I mention ... Well, if you read them, you'll find out. If you want to bash the UK, be my guest, I'll join in, but if you just wag a finger I cant do owt now, can I ... Link to post Share on other sites
kintaro 0 Posted May 22, 2003 Author Share Posted May 22, 2003 MiteyAk...that was an honest misspelling. Sorry. Doe Miteyuk mean something? If so, it really wasn't intentional. Oh, and I'm not sure what your implications are but I am not military nor ever have been. Link to post Share on other sites
miteyak 0 Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 OK, no, just thought it was Yak to Yuk... Link to post Share on other sites
enderzero 0 Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 Ocean - you've seen thru my plans - but with him giving it all away for free here I might not be able to sell it for much. Link to post Share on other sites
Karnidge 2 Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 I downloaded it for free! Sorry!! Link to post Share on other sites
MistaSparkle 0 Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 I don't quite understand the whole "well sure America invented/did [A], but [country X and Y] do it better." Many countries have offered innovations to the world... Whats the beef with American innovation? Link to post Share on other sites
TheOrange 0 Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 There is no beef...why don't you read the posts in the thread Link to post Share on other sites
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