Let's just settle this: Do you support/like America or not?

[Fattwins 0]

I think america sssstand s for what is good, but in some ways it has lost its way. When the American government and some people make huge mistakes they dont say shittttt. Look at Enron or Haliburton. Come on where are the American people standing up to this crap. After 9/11 no one says crap anymore. The VPs of the US's company gets a fat contract and no one says a flippin word and you want to tell me its right BS.

 

I dont hate Americans in fact I like most I meet. Do I think America is treading bad water ****kkkkk yeah.

[damian 0]

For a developed leading western nation I think America should be ashamed of its monopoly on corruption, murder, guns, drugs and crime in general. As the nation that they are, they should be able to do better. The real terrorists are American citizens themselves. You guy kill and destroy more of yourselves each year than any terrorist does. However, by and large, these problems are not my problems. American foreign policy is my problem (and yours). I do not like it and it has not changed one bit. America is a stupid country: it does not learn from past mistakes.

 

As for the original question, American music is often the best in the world. American culture I can't really comment on. I would say it is very demographically based. American movies are really all that we see and for the most they glorify death and destruction. For the most they are quick fix junk food for the eyes. There are however some of the best movies that are an experience for the brain and the soul. These movies need to be sought out as they do not come your way in volume (seriously, how many cinema movies are actually good movies?). American sport is to me somewhat irrelevant outside of America. It never fails to amaze me that a nation such as America pretty much fails to field an international team. For America, the world exists inside America. Other countries are just interesting places to visit, trade with and have wars with. As for American people: it pretty hard to say anything here as every American I have met is different and I am yet to find a common thread. Over the years I have certainly met some first class losers that are American. These guys usually suffer from 'big guy' syndrome. They never grew up and they think that they matter beyond the next person. They stumble around without the ability to just be. It is quite a sorry sight to see and hear these people as they wang around brash sounding noise and solve problems with brute force rather than brains. regardless of their actually stature, they derive 'bigness' from the fact that they are American. They then expect all in the area to actually give a damn and if we don't, these Americans behave like 5 years olds that want attention and always to have their way. When they are taunted a little they become simple fools and most people stop paying attention. In nearly all cases when I observe the is behavior pattern, I am looking at an American. All is not bad. As of today, I know a number of Americans who are good people and I am sure there are many more like them. I am happy that I know these people, happy to have met them and am happy to continue to know them. I plan to live in America for a few years and I am sure I will met more people like the American friend s that I have today.

 

As for viability in a global environment, both social and economic: I strongly feel that America, particularly economically, is on the verge of becoming a retarded giant. America will be the next Japan.... it has already started. I also predict that America will precipitate a global event that was one game to many and the world will turn around and tell them to sit down and shut up. When these things happen I think the American people are going to feel very let down, but the American generations that come from this will be far more globally mature and sustainable.

 

After thought: I didn't actually answer the question posed in the thread title.

 

Like America: yes, not in love, but I like.

Support America: No.

[jared 0]

why does everyone want to be a victim.

 

Some ppl here have conditioned themselves into believing that everyone hates them because they are a snowboarder. Others believe the same cos they are from the USA.

[Ocean11 0]

 Quote:

Originally posted by jared:
Some ppl here have conditioned themselves into believing that everyone hates them because they are a snowboarder.

I don't know of anybody on this board who that describes jared. We already have enough bullshitters and wild exaggerators on this thread without you joining in...

[jared 0]

[kintaro 0]

db- I actually enjoyed reading your comments. Honest and refreshing.

 

I'm genuinly curious to know why you think the US is "economically speaking on the verge of becoming...the next Japan." I'm not an expert but I am an investor and interested in knowing why you think this way.

[Ocean11 0]

I just read this morning that Iraq's nuclear sites are being looted too, and also that Saddam is still said to be in Iraq.

 

I now support America even less as regards their foreign policy. It's an absolute disgrace. It's based on lies and empty promises, and it's run by rank amateurs. And any American who gets their knickers in a twist because I say that will just have to learn to live with it.

[kintaro 0]

The media can "spin" anything! You believe everything you read than I now support Ocean even less. Sure, Saddam has been seen driving up and down the main blvd. in a convertible in Baghdad, eh?

 

Oh, and American's don't wear knickers...where are my knickers mum You crack me up!

[MistaSparkle 0]

 Quote:

Originally posted by db:
America will be the next Japan.... it has already started

I'm no expert in economics, but I think it's safe to say that Japanese and American economies are completely different animals. The Japanese economy at it's peak was still a bubble economy before it failed. I'm not saying the American economy isn't in a decline, and I'm not saying it's not invincible... but, can you really say that America will be the next Japan???

[nzlegend 1]

 Quote:

Originally posted by Kintaro:
The media can "spin" anything!

they sure can, just look at the stories coming out about that female POW Jessica Lynch, turns out he story is a spun fraud, lots of changed details to make it more dramamtic.

[damian 0]

America will not fail for all the same reasons that Japan did. And because America is full of Americans, not Japanese people, America will recover in a different manner. For starters, America will recover. This is something that Japan has not been able to do yet.

 

Look for the following events:

 

- extremely weak USD (already started)

- enormous credit crunch in America

- continued and sharper reduction in corporate profit and capital spending

- the eventual admission that the most aggressive Fed rate cuts ever are not working (they are already jaw-boning to fight deflation)

- consumer spending never saving the US economy. The continued fall in consumer spending.

- the fact that the Dow is well overvalued (given the current US economic underlying structural problems)

- all the wealth from the bubble economy will be lost

 

Big problems are profits decline, a record savings shortfall, a capital spending collapse, an unprecedented consumer borrowing and spending binge, a massive current account deficit, ravaged balance sheets and record high debt levels.

 

Among these problems, the worst would be the depression of profits and capital spending. They propel each other downward in a vicious spiral.

 

Essentially, there is no money left in America, it is all debt. Pointlessly lower interest rates are just making money cheaper and debt greater. What is worse is that with the backdrop of all this debt driven spending, deflation is still managing to become a threat. Once the debt driven spending dries up (which it will), deflation will kick in. Deflationary expectations are scaring the bejezus out of the Fed. Have a look at the US 30 year bond... it will end up just like the JGB market.

 

Also of concern for America is the pending possibility that OPEC and other non-OPEC oil producers will decide to price oil in the global market place in EUR rather than USD. This would deprive America of the very unfair advantage that it has enjoyed: Future oil imports free of FX risk.

 

I would like to say all is not bad, but I think it is. Particularly with Bush at the helm. That guy is going to(is already) bend America over the desk and royally buggerise it.

 

I put on hold my projection that China will be the next big power. They still have the immense potential, however the gvt handling of the SARS matter has proven a scary lack of transparency in the system. One that people feared any way... and now investors have been reminded of it.

 

Kintaro - thanks for not being offended by my thoughts. They were not ever designed to do so. I am glad that they didn't.

[NoFakie 45]

I'll just add that one of stumbling blocks to the trading of oil in euros is that neither the two main European producers (Norway and the UK) has joined the single currency. As it is, Europe imports more oil and is a bigger trader with the Middle East than the US, so that trading oil in euros would be far more practical.

[damian 0]

The UK will join the single currency.

[Stefan 0]

A pretty hot topic a?

 

I'll throw my two cents worth in.

 

I voted "Don't much care for the American Way" but I've liked most Americans I've met. I don't much care for the "British Way" at the moment, but I don't dislike my friends and family.

 

Basically it boils down to tolerance of other peoples views and beliefs. And I think America has got that idea spot on.

[Stefan 0]

db, what makes you so sure!

 

The Conservatives are Euro Sceptics through and through. Gordon Brown has just said that there will be no referendum on joining the Euro at the moment, and thats not to mention the general negativity I've witnessed (as a UK subject) surrounding the Euro!

[Ocean11 0]

In addition to their spastic foreign policy, US intelligence is pathetically bad, and has been for years. The US has invaded Iraq, claiming that they knew of all sorts of weapons sites based on their intelligence, and has launched strikes on Saddam based on their intelligence. Now they're there, they can't find the WMD, and they can't find Saddam. So, how good is their intelligence, and how good is their policy? How trustworthy is anything the government says?

 

As for 'media spin' Kintaro, you can dismiss any reports you like. You don't actually have to read the news, and there's no obligation to evaluate it for yourself and spot the bits that don't pass simple plausibility tests. However, if you want to pull your head out of your knickers (knickers is an English expression) for a moment, read this;

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030505/ap_on_re_mi_ea/nuclear_iraq_2 You could even go further and draw your own conclusions. Let me ask you directly, you who talk about 'spin' so glibly, do you think the US government spun the Lynch rescue?

 

Finally, from your personal comments, I'm assuming that all your concerns about how much we love or hate America masks a more personal concern. But if you're so concerned about people supporting the US, why don't you give us some reasons why they should. You could start with how the US has made Iraq a safer place...

[MistaSparkle 0]

 Quote:

Originally posted by Ocean11:
In addition to their spastic foreign policy, US intelligence is pathetically bad, and has been for years. The US has invaded Iraq, claiming that they knew of all sorts of weapons sites based on their intelligence, and has launched strikes on Saddam based on their intelligence. Now they're there, they can't find the WMD, and they can't find Saddam. So, how good is their intelligence, and how good is their policy? How trustworthy is anything the government says?

I disagree with the assumption that US intelligence is incredibly bad. So many resources are devoted to it, it's probably in fact incredibly good, and to go even further probably the best in the world. The problem is... whether they would kill Saddam, or find WMD was never the real issue. It's painfully transparent.

...there probably was no spin on the Lynch rescue, but it most certainly was media manipulation. You have to look for the news that wasnt covered. The Lynch Rescue is a feel good story about a young white girl that the government knew American's would eat up. That being the case, news networks give it precendence over other stories like lets say.... a civilian apartment building being blown up with 200 people in it.....

I can't stomach watching CNN news anymore. They claim to be so objective and hold themselves on the highest moral pedestal, but they're as full of shit as Fox news is.... they're just alot sneakier about it.

[Fattwins 0]

As a person with money db what do you sugest the best thing is to do now, sit on it? I wouldnt mind knowing what to do with mine.

[Ocean11 0]

 Quote:

Originally posted by MistaSparkle:
I disagree with the assumption that US intelligence is incredibly bad. So many resources are devoted to it, it's probably in fact incredibly good, and to go even further probably the best in the world.

No way. It's not an assumption, it's an observation - based first on outcomes, and secondly on reports in the US media of the post-failure post-mortems. Certainly it's a huge bloated monster, no doubt about that. But how intelligence is combined, collated, and interpreted is important too, and the US isn't very good at that, largely because it largely fails to understand how we anti-Americans think. Ideological blinkers are firmly in place. There are also plenty of US security analysts who have published books on this very problem, but they're ignored as Cassandras.

Typically Americans like to think their systems and whatnot are the best in the world, but that's because they're largely ignorant of what everybody else has got...

[MistaSparkle 0]

 Quote:

Originally posted by Ocean11:

No way. It's not an assumption, it's an observation - based first on outcomes, and secondly on reports in the US media of the post-failure post-mortems

Consider the possiblity that the reported intention of the government and what "they" really intend are two very different things. Sure... they failed in Iraq if their objectives were mainly to kill Saddam and find WMD.... sure killing Saddam, and finding some nukes would've been icing on the cake, but is that really what they were after?

 Quote:

Originally posted by Ocean11:

Typically Americans like to think their systems and whatnot are the best in the world, but that's because they're largely ignorant of what everybody else has got...

Yes Americans like to think they have the best of everything, but thats not really the point i'm trying to make. It's arguable to say that America devotes more resources to defense than any other country in the world. What the decisionmakers do with that intelligence is an entirely different story.

[Ocean11 0]

Mr *, I have considered that the stated goals and the actual goals of the war may be different - my point was that it shouldn't really be that difficult to lay hands on Saddam, and failure to do so indicates a very weak capability (just one further indication that not enough resources were put in place and that the whole operation was a rushed job).

 

As for what the actual goals of the war are, I'm very hard put to know. Do you think you know? I'd be interested to hear your opinion on that...

[MistaSparkle 0]

I agree with what you're saying... You gotta wonder why the whole operation was rushed, and why it wasn't handled as if it were the most important objective.

 

My thoughts about the motives for the war... Well I don't think it's taking too far of a leap to say that something else was motivating the Bush administration and Blair going against world opinion in realizing their war. While Bush made speeches about the Iraqi threat to world security, military officials could be seen all over the news speculating that the Iraqi military would be extremely weak, and how an invasion would be over in a matter of weeks. If the US had decisive evidence of WMD, why weren't they able to produce it? They stopped the weapons inspectors by saying that time was running out... but only on their own timetable for war. I think you would have to ignore alot of events before the war to believe that the US was only interested in WMD.

 

Now while WMD and dubious links to terrorism are probably a small part of the motivation for war, you have to ask what are the major interests of the US in the middle east as a region. The US has no other investment in the middle east other than in Oil. Iraq contains 11% of the worlds oil reserves. Second only to Saudi Arabia, a country that makes the US uncomfortable to be dependant on (Mainly because american people are distrustful of Saudi Arabia because 11 of the 19 9/11 hijackers where Saudi nationals, and because the govt. is afraid that the oil supply which is controlled by a very small group of people, could be interrupted by terrorist activity). The US depending on Oil as a backbone of the economy, consumes a quarter of the worlds oil supply. Oil is a long term strategic, and ecomonic asset to the US, and Iraqi oil contracts for post-war Iraq were being auctioned to American companies even before the war began.

 

I'm sure there are other benefits like regional strategic assets that an american-friendly Iraqi government provides.... but overall.. i think that The Bush administration and Blair made a big shit-sandwitch and forced everyone to take a bite.

[danz 0]

just a few points...

 

1) I do not think that capturing/killing sadam was ever a priority in the war...surely, when the war was going on, there were attempted pinpoint attacks to take out sadam, but the motivation behind that was it would cause the regime to topple quicker...destroying the control infrastructure is a fast way of getting rid of the entire regime...now that the war is over, it is not a priority to get sadam...his sphere of influence in iraq is finished...this is not the same situation as osama...

 

2) As for oil issues...I think the UN, and specifically France and Russia, had more to loose economically (all related to oil) from the war...the Oil for Food program was a huge cash cow for the UN...they collected a 2% commision on all transactions in the program...we are talking about billions of dollars here...the program is the only one of its kind that is headed directly by kofi annan...with NO accountability...you wanna see the books?? you can't, because they are classified...France does the auditing...the main contracts for the oil shipments were with Russia and Syria (sadam got to choose)...seems to me oil and mula were also motives for opposing the war...so who is on higher ground (politically speaking...)??

 

danz

[kintaro 0]

Ocean,

 

your spin question..I think it was a medea spin, not a govt. spin. But on that point I really don't care.

 

Next, I'm not concerned, as you say, wether or not people on this forum support the US. The question I posed was simply do you or not....I'm not trying to influence or change anyone's opinions.

 

Finally, you ask why people should "support/like" the US. Absolutely no reason at all!! Bollywood is good enough. Enya rocks! The world economy would be just fine with no America. Space exploration, medical advances and other scientific endeavors brought forth by the US really aren't neccesary for the world community. Dissaster relief to poor nations - waste! Baseball and basketball...morons! We should all play CRICKET!

 

Seriously, as I've stated b/f, I'm from Hawaii and support the pro-sovereignty movement. That's just me and it's another issue all together but I would give up my citizenship if Hawaii regained it's sovereignty. In my private life I'm not against talking ill of the US when I feel it's in order. I feel this forum is lopsided (sp?) and needs a little balance. B/f moving abroad I had no idea people had such strong opinions of the US. Naive..yes.

 

Those that are not envied are never wholly happy - Aeschylus

[frannyo 2]

Naive? Very.

 

Welcome to the real world.

 

Its not just opinions about the US, it's opinions about everything.

 

BTW, who's supposed to be envious?