Ms Zoidberg 0 Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 How much is a Starbucks in Japan compared to the US? Anyone help me out here! It's important for my trip next winter. Link to post Share on other sites
Davo 1 Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 I think it's about 3 dollars for a medium coffee. Starbucks make pretty shite coffee, and actually some of their imitators here do a better job of it. Link to post Share on other sites
badmigraine 0 Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 The prices don't seem very different from those in the US. Davo, are you a coffee man? Wish you could be here to share a cup with me now here in sunny Walled Lake, Michigan. We're going wake-skating on the lake this afternoon...would be fun to see how your board technique adapts to lake water and beer. Coffee. I couldn't live without it. I'm always checking out sites like Coffee Geek to see reviews of the latest high-end home espresso equipment and beans. There's a lot of good coffee in Tokyo and personal preferences often change with the seasons, but when I left last October my fave was a tiny local Brazilian shop near Shibuya, where they made great cups, and the Lavazza Cafe in Harajuku...Lavazza being I think the most popular bean in Italy (that doesn't mean a lot though, Budweiser is the most "popular" beer in the US). As for Starbucks coffee being "shite", well, I want to agree but when you look at all the coffees out there, it isn't really true. When I see a Starbucks, I usually feel the same way: this is shite. But... Let me first say, I don't like Starbucks coffee's typical taste...their daily coffees and espresso drinks aren't my favorites at all. But I do drink it if I am in the mood for a coffee and there is nowhere else nearby that I prefer. They are decently pleasing and reliable. Let me add that if you are blessed by virtue of having come from a place like Italy, Brazil, Washington state, San Francisco, NYC or any of the other places where the glittering soul-stirring mouth-watering wonders of coffee have long been celebrated, refined and enjoyed by the happy denizens of that locale, then yes, Starbucks is NOT a great cup of coffee...maybe not even a GOOD cup. But as for the rest of the world, including all of Japan and most of the US, well, ten years ago all you could get was execrable gas station or Denny's type coffee (US), or boring old fashioned stodgy bad DuTour drip coffee in a smoky stinking ashtray-type shop (Japan). To me, THAT level of coffee is what should be reviled and deemed to be the very bottom of the scale, i.e., technically referred to as "shite"... In places and times like that, you were lucky to find some small independent espresso cafe that made a decent cup. And in most places they never heard of these...if they did, it was often after the place had gone belly up only three months after opening. Now, thanks to the advent of fairly good, standardized-quality coffee chains like Starbucks, many formerly coffee-deprived souls learned to expect a lot more from a coffee bean. After a decade or so of decent, available-anywhere coffee, they can sneer at Starbucks and Tullys and Caribou and Seattle's Best and all the other chains. To their discredit, these giant franchises have extinguished the quirky neighborhood bohemian cafe, which only existed in a few places. To their credit, they have educated hundreds of millions of humans, former lost souls, about the great potential of coffee. Now to the question at hand...is Starbucks coffee shite? To anwser this, we must consider two things: First, do you like the taste of their typical blend/roast and selection of coffees? This is mere personal preference. I don't like the sort of berrylike juniper like weird taste... I went on a number of business trips to Stuttgart and had to drink really awful berrylike coffee in meeting rooms all day just to stay awake, and now I can find that taste element, albeit weak, in every cup of Starbucks and I don't like it. But some people do like that flavor. All relative, all about personal taste, chocolate vs. vanilla, fries vs. onion rings. Therefore, as regards the specific flavor of Starbucks, it ought to play a lesser role in our evaluation of whether or not the coffee is shite. Second, what about quality of beans, roast and preparation? Do they do it right? The answer is a resounding Yes...they have very fresh beans, recently roasted and rushed to the shops...they grind the beans on the spot, normally seconds before making the cup...they have excellent Italian equipment properly maintained...their staff has good solid training and very reliably good barista technique that varies little from place to place, or country to country. In short, they do an overall excellent job of quality and technique. In view of this, to say that Starbucks coffee is shite makes it seem like they are at the very lowest, worst end of the scale of coffee shops...which is simply not true. They are way better than that. There is a world of terrible coffee out there much worse than Starbucks. In closing, I am happy to agree that Starbucks coffee is shite, but seeing as how Starbucks is probably in the top half or even top third, I'm only comfortable calling it shite if we can come up with a much worse adjective to convey the truly bad state of coffee that really IS at the bottom of the scale Link to post Share on other sites
Davo 1 Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 Fair comments Badmaigrane. Let me clarify my use of adjectives. Starbucks is I believe "shite" in comparisson to the good coffee which I was accustomed to drinking back home in New Zealand. Perhaps surprisingly New Zealand has developed a vibrant cafe culture over the last fifteen years or so. A culture which is largely characterised by independent operators serving quality coffee and great food in cool cafes. This makes Starbucks taste and look like "shite" in comparison. I will drink Starbucks and totally agree that there are far worse brews out there. In comparison with every conceivable coffee available Starbucks rates as OK in my book I guess. I would never drink it in NZ because there comparing it with the quality independents is like comparing Burger King to a restaurant. Unfortunately (coffee wise) I live in Japan where chain stores dominate. I do have some favorite independents here in Osaka, but as for chains I'd go for Seattles Best or Lavazza first. I think the Illy brand is pretty good as well. Starbucks has certainly had a positive effect here in that the Japanese consumer is finally starting to appreciate the wonders of coffee. I do think that a lot of their competitors/imitators do a much better job. Last time I went there the coffee was mediocre as usual and the sandwich I had was so stale I asked for a replacement, which was only slightly fresher. I'll try not to go back in the future, but like Mcdonalds et al sometimes its just "there" and convenient. What's this water skating? Do you mean wakeboarding? Link to post Share on other sites
mikazooki 0 Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 backs to davo... starbucks is tolerable at best. most coffee sold is intolerable so it is a step ahead of most. i have been to many cafes round here and i would say at best 3 or 4 serve good coffee. the problem in japan is that most people don't know how to make a coffee. ie use a coffee machine and heat milk correctly. most meaning 9 out of 10 places. starbucks shits me in that some stores dont offer cups even if u drink inside. everything is disposable. a little unnecessaary i think. in nagoya try 'salut' nearish to the loft. the tunes are good too. Link to post Share on other sites
badmigraine 0 Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 Davo, those kiwi cafes sound great. I've already heard all about the great beer from Mogski. Wakeskating is the latest thing...a wakeboard type shape, but with no bindings...you might call it a skateboard on the water. You can do spins, kickflips, rails, jump the wake, etc. Read all about it at www.wakeskating.com and here is a pic of someone much better than me doing a trick...looks like a backside pop shuvit?: Link to post Share on other sites
snowboard_freak 0 Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 Man that looks damn hard!! I hope that guy has water proofed those shoes as well. Link to post Share on other sites
Davo 1 Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 That looks well cool. I haven't had a chance to go wakeboarding yet this year unfortunately. Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean11 0 Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 So much scope for painful error, so little margin for it... Link to post Share on other sites
rach 1 Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 Expensive in the UK (as are lots of things) Link to post Share on other sites
badmigraine 0 Posted September 13, 2003 Share Posted September 13, 2003 It IS expensive...we drink gallons of beer on the boat, and I can't afford it much longer! Link to post Share on other sites
scoobydoo 0 Posted September 13, 2003 Share Posted September 13, 2003 The beer or the coffee? Link to post Share on other sites
sachiko 0 Posted September 14, 2003 Share Posted September 14, 2003 I like Starbucks. When I went before I had big white mugcup, but last week I went to one and they give me plastic/paper cut. Is it reason for this? I wanted mugcup but they said no of them. Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean11 0 Posted September 15, 2003 Share Posted September 15, 2003 Question: What possible relevance can the price of Starbucks have to your winter trip to Japan? I'd say if that's an issue for you, you have your priorities badly skewed. I really love the coffee cups they have in Mistah Donuts. I don't care much for the hot brown liquid in them, but I can tell that a lot of loving design went into those cups. I shall have to poach myself a brace of them. (Sachiko - point of English for ya. A 'mug' is recognized as a kind of cup. You don't need the 'cup' bit on the end - that's Japlish. It's like saying 'glasscup', 'teacupcup' ) Link to post Share on other sites
barbarabara 0 Posted September 15, 2003 Share Posted September 15, 2003 I like Starbucks too, but open to ideas for so-called better coffee. Link to post Share on other sites
rach 1 Posted September 16, 2003 Share Posted September 16, 2003 2 more popular ones in the UK - Costa Coffee and Cafe Nero. I like Nero the best - strong stuff. Link to post Share on other sites
Ms Zoidberg 0 Posted September 16, 2003 Author Share Posted September 16, 2003 No relevance! (apart from the fact that I like Starbucks). I was kinda joking and possibly shouldn't have said that - just wondering about prices of things in Japan basically. Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean11 0 Posted September 17, 2003 Share Posted September 17, 2003 Relieved! (I once saw a Starbucks on one of my very infrequent trips to Tokyo, but I haven't seen one anywhere else. If you're only going to resort towns in Japan, I don't think you'll find any Starbucks shops.) Link to post Share on other sites
Stefan 0 Posted September 17, 2003 Share Posted September 17, 2003 My favourite kind of Coffe isn't actually coffee at all.....it's tea. And you can't get that is STARBUCKS can you? STARBUCKS is a horrible shite hole which should be flushed down the toilet hole of humanity...In fact just because some things are sold as 'coffee' and are dark brown, doesn't always mean they are coffee! Link to post Share on other sites
badmigraine 0 Posted September 17, 2003 Share Posted September 17, 2003 Mr. Matthews, it's even worse than you imagined! Starbucks DOES have teas, and they, too, are shite, absolute shite. Perhaps the most forgivable feature of Starbucks in Japan is that, as a non-smoking shop, it functions as a haven for attractive young women. Those interested are probably better off trying to pick up women in Starbucks than at the bars. Link to post Share on other sites
nekobi 0 Posted September 18, 2003 Share Posted September 18, 2003 011 you must have moved before the opening of the starbucks in nagano city. my j friend told me that it set a sales record opening day for all shops worldwide. or something like that. Link to post Share on other sites
sunrise 0 Posted September 18, 2003 Share Posted September 18, 2003 They've been spreading like cancer all over Tokyo for awhile now... I don't drink coffee, but very occasionally I'm tempted to get one of the lethal chocolate brownies there, that some friends of mine make (I think they make the pita bread in Starbucks, too). Link to post Share on other sites
cheeseman 1 Posted September 20, 2003 Share Posted September 20, 2003 I have written them a letter about this - but it would be a wise marketing move for them to sell all different kind of natural cheeses and also cheese snacks in their shops. The advantages of doing so would be numerous. Not only would it attract more cheesefans that may not have normally entered a Starbucks, but it would also encourage existing customers to get together and enjoy the cheese together. Building a community! Do you think they will listen to my ideas? I certainly hope so. Link to post Share on other sites
NoFakie 45 Posted September 20, 2003 Share Posted September 20, 2003 Nekobs I heard a while back that local students had petitioned Starbucks for a Nagano branch. Maybe they had a party on the first day. There's been also been a Tullys in Nagano since last year. Link to post Share on other sites
enderzero 0 Posted September 20, 2003 Share Posted September 20, 2003 Starbucks is fine...not great but fine. It is certainly not bad as far as coffee is concerned. As for Starbucks killing the coffee house, that has definitely not happened in Seattle. There is a Starbucks on every corner (or two) and most corners have a Tully's or SBC (both also from Seattle) but it is still very easy to find local alternative coffee houses and cafes. On top of that, just about every gas station has an independently run espresso stand/hut in the parking lot. People drink a lot of coffee in Seattle. In fact there is a lot of controversy here right now over a proposed latte tax of 10 cents a cup to pay for early child care education. Link to post Share on other sites
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