Mike Pow 52 Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Head north to Kurodake or south to Nagano and Niigata if you're looking for steeps MitchPee. Link to post Share on other sites
Tubby Beaver 209 Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 it doesn't matter where you are from, over here it matters where you are not from....Japan. FWIW I signed your petition though and wish you good luck Mitch......just hope you don't get too smashed up by that brick wall! Link to post Share on other sites
mitchpee 10 Posted January 16, 2012 Author Share Posted January 16, 2012 Head north to Kurodake or south to Nagano and Niigata if you're looking for steeps MitchPee. Kurodake is awesome, but unfortunately in the middle of nowhere far away. It's tough when these areas are a 5 minute walk and stare me in the face every day. Link to post Share on other sites
Mike Pow 52 Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Such is life unfortunately. Hokkaido is all about the pow in my eyes. Link to post Share on other sites
dyna8800 3 Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 This is what I am trying to get at. A discussion about why they are closed and if it still serves as a purpose of saving lives to be closed or just being stubborn. Hmm, MitchPee, how long have you been in Japan? How long are you planning to stay? How do you take their actions as being "stubborn"? Just because they will not explain in full detail their reasons? Link to post Share on other sites
rider69 18 Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Really re-think your approach. Japanese arent going to listen to some guy that comes to ski for 3 months. In the grand picture Niseko doesnt need to expose itself to the risk of opening such terrain. Maybe some sort of guided tours into there but other than that why would they expose themselves to risk. Link to post Share on other sites
Go Native 70 Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 rider I think you've really hit the nail on the head. Whether they open the terrain Mitch has indicated or not really isn't a deal breaker for most people wanting to head to Niseko. For the vast bulk of the market the need for such terrain just isn't required. Certainly not the family market which is the most lucrative for ski resorts. A lot of people like to bag Niseko for it's lack of steep terrain but for 95%+ of the market out there it already has more than enough challenging terrain to keep them happy (and coming back year after year after year). As much as people like the idea of big mountain steeps, most don't have the ability or skills to ski them safely. The question for a place like Niseko is what is the benefit to them to open the terrain Mitch is talking about. It would cost them a lot more to manage these areas and would increase the risk (and probably insurance premiums). Would this be outweighed by increased numbers coming to the resort? Possibly but from a business point of view I'd think they'd be better off doing things like making Hirafu village more user friendly and improving facilities for families. Families are where the real money is, not the few ski bums who love skiing more extreme slopes Link to post Share on other sites
Chriselle 158 Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 rider I think you've really hit the nail on the head. Whether they open the terrain Mitch has indicated or not really isn't a deal breaker for most people wanting to head to Niseko. For the vast bulk of the market the need for such terrain just isn't required. Certainly not the family market which is the most lucrative for ski resorts. A lot of people like to bag Niseko for it's lack of steep terrain but for 95%+ of the market out there it already has more than enough challenging terrain to keep them happy (and coming back year after year after year). As much as people like the idea of big mountain steeps, most don't have the ability or skills to ski them safely. The question for a place like Niseko is what is the benefit to them to open the terrain Mitch is talking about. It would cost them a lot more to manage these areas and would increase the risk (and probably insurance premiums). Would this be outweighed by increased numbers coming to the resort? Possibly but from a business point of view I'd think they'd be better off doing things like making Hirafu village more user friendly and improving facilities for families. Families are where the real money is, not the few ski bums who love skiing more extreme slopes Ping pong...... Link to post Share on other sites
seemore 66 Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Go for it Mitch You can only try. Lombok has some really heavy waves try surfing double o/head deserts with a foot of razor sharp reef in front of you there is no cutabcks on the the shoulder. Seemore Link to post Share on other sites
xxx 2 Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Interesting discussion anyway, not that I know the area Link to post Share on other sites
Jynxx 4 Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 rider I think you've really hit the nail on the head. Whether they open the terrain Mitch has indicated or not really isn't a deal breaker for most people wanting to head to Niseko. For the vast bulk of the market the need for such terrain just isn't required. Certainly not the family market which is the most lucrative for ski resorts. A lot of people like to bag Niseko for it's lack of steep terrain but for 95%+ of the market out there it already has more than enough challenging terrain to keep them happy (and coming back year after year after year). As much as people like the idea of big mountain steeps, most don't have the ability or skills to ski them safely. The question for a place like Niseko is what is the benefit to them to open the terrain Mitch is talking about. It would cost them a lot more to manage these areas and would increase the risk (and probably insurance premiums). Would this be outweighed by increased numbers coming to the resort? Possibly but from a business point of view I'd think they'd be better off doing things like making Hirafu village more user friendly and improving facilities for families. Families are where the real money is, not the few ski bums who love skiing more extreme slopes Ding dong. Right on. 30 years ago when we (as high school kids) went there, There were no gates or ropes. People would have laughted at you if you said there are no avalanche in Niseko Annupri-Hirafu. The locals point out to you where not to go and that´s was it. It looks like slack country but it slides. We didn´t know any better ... was glad we got some guide line. Link to post Share on other sites
Bradley 0 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 How popular/busy was Niseko back then? Link to post Share on other sites
rider69 18 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Back then money was flowing like a river in a typhoon! Link to post Share on other sites
mitchpee 10 Posted January 18, 2012 Author Share Posted January 18, 2012 I'm not going to deny where the money is is catering to Hong Kong, Singapore, and Chinese families. Those are the people willing to spend the money and come to Japan. What I want to talk about is exactly what you brought up GN. This is about it costing "too much" to manage the terrain. I argue the opposite that it won't cost that much and the return will be much greater. So many people go to Rusutsu, Kokusai, Kiroro, etc because of the terrain at Niseko being flat and tracked out quickly. I argue drawing those people and more would be far more of a benefit than the costs to maintain. These are the points and logistics I want to be talked about. It doesn't matter if I am a foreigner or here for 3 months. The issues should be addressed and it is a very easy thing to do. It just takes someone stepping forward which is difficult to get to happen in Japan. Link to post Share on other sites
Tubby Beaver 209 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 I'm not going to deny where the money is is catering to Hong Kong, Singapore, and Chinese families. Those are the people willing to spend the money and come to Japan. What I want to talk about is exactly what you brought up GN. This is about it costing "too much" to manage the terrain. I argue the opposite that it won't cost that much and the return will be much greater. So many people go to Rusutsu, Kokusai, Kiroro, etc because of the terrain at Niseko being flat and tracked out quickly. I argue drawing those people and more would be far more of a benefit than the costs to maintain. These are the points and logistics I want to be talked about. It doesn't matter if I am a foreigner or here for 3 months. The issues should be addressed and it is a very easy thing to do. It just takes someone stepping forward which is difficult to get to happen in Japan. it does here I'm afraid Link to post Share on other sites
HelperElfMissy 42 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 rider I think you've really hit the nail on the head. Whether they open the terrain Mitch has indicated or not really isn't a deal breaker for most people wanting to head to Niseko. For the vast bulk of the market the need for such terrain just isn't required. Certainly not the family market which is the most lucrative for ski resorts. A lot of people like to bag Niseko for it's lack of steep terrain but for 95%+ of the market out there it already has more than enough challenging terrain to keep them happy (and coming back year after year after year). As much as people like the idea of big mountain steeps, most don't have the ability or skills to ski them safely. The question for a place like Niseko is what is the benefit to them to open the terrain Mitch is talking about. It would cost them a lot more to manage these areas and would increase the risk (and probably insurance premiums). Would this be outweighed by increased numbers coming to the resort? Possibly but from a business point of view I'd think they'd be better off doing things like making Hirafu village more user friendly and improving facilities for families. Families are where the real money is, not the few ski bums who love skiing more extreme slopes 100% agree.The extreme stuff is there and accessile, as MikePOW says, just it is not staring every person in the Hirafu village in the face. While I am all in favor of more terrain, more lifts, more access, more excitement and fun for people, I also wonder what kind of risks opening terrain like this so so close to the resort would bring. I know too many people without the knowledge and gear who duck ropes to get the untracked stuff already, and how many of those unprepared would end up in a world of trouble, or release a slide on top of someone like you.... I was pretty cranky that Zermatt closed the entire mountain on a bumper pow day here last week, but after seeing all the remnants of slides when we went up the next day, I was actually thankful. I think Niseko does a pretty good job of letting people play in relative safety in a variety of terrain options with an unbelievable amount of snow to manage, without closing much for long. And yep, investment in alternative activities to skiing and snowboarding would be magic. I am constantly blown away by the myriad of options for non snow sports enthusiasts in Europe. So much to do for those who don't ski or board. It sure brings the money in! And maybe all that new money can be used to provide a few more extreme options... Link to post Share on other sites
Jynxx 4 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 I'm not going to deny where the money is is catering to Hong Kong, Singapore, and Chinese families. Those are the people willing to spend the money and come to Japan. What I want to talk about is exactly what you brought up GN. This is about it costing "too much" to manage the terrain. I argue the opposite that it won't cost that much and the return will be much greater. So many people go to Rusutsu, Kokusai, Kiroro, etc because of the terrain at Niseko being flat and tracked out quickly. I argue drawing those people and more would be far more of a benefit than the costs to maintain. These are the points and logistics I want to be talked about. It doesn't matter if I am a foreigner or here for 3 months. The issues should be addressed and it is a very easy thing to do. It just takes someone stepping forward which is difficult to get to happen in Japan. it does here I'm afraid And one´s age ... If you are over 40, people start to listento you. (treat you as a middle managment ranker) If you are over 50, they might take you as a consultant Link to post Share on other sites
Metabo Oyaji 71 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 These are the points and logistics I want to be talked about. It doesn't matter if I am a foreigner or here for 3 months. The issues should be addressed and it is a very easy thing to do. It just takes someone stepping forward which is difficult to get to happen in Japan. it does here I'm afraid It does everywhere. Just some friendly advice. Mitch, you're from New England. How would it have been received in your hometown if some flatlander/turkey started circulating petitions a month or two after arriving to educate the locals on how things should be done? Not very well, I'll wager, whatever the merits of their case. It seems a somewhat unnecessarily confrontational approach (not knowing much about the specifics). Become a real person (do your time, become a local fixture), and figure out who needs to be talked to. Change DOES happen in here, as it does anywhere else, but only when the people who have a real stake want change. Gambare! Link to post Share on other sites
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