Ippy's Guide to Buying a new snowboard

[Tubby Beaver 209]

just been to my local shop and they are stockng Bataleon's this winter. They had the Evil Twin and the new Rocker board, 55k. They don't have the Jam but I can order it, but the guy couldn't find the brochure to determine the price.

[ippy 66]

theres a 08/09 jam 163 iirc dirt cheap on craigslist ($175) you could probably throw out 150 and get it i reckons

[HelperElfMissy 42]

Originally Posted By: ippy

Originally Posted By: Tex

1500 damn that thing would want to do more than ride snow LOL

Originally Posted By: ippy

actually i never noticed that before Good call! i wonder if it was an unmentioned collaboration (ie act of theft )

It's all about R&D ippy... Ripoff Design

hah! very true Still, how much is the Jones? 400? compared to the insanely high price manta! har! im siding with the thiefs

You will get a good ride on a knock off.
But the real thing is going to be sublime!

Papa has a Gentem stick Impossible. The stuff dreams were made of.

[Thundercat 60]

That really is a gorgeous board. Everyone who goes to Niseko should demo those boards!

[Jynxx 4]

For sure ! Defo on the list.

The nose is so retro. Bit like the Winterstick.

But for my $ I recon I´d settle on a Prior swallowtail powstick.

[ippy 66]

it looks gorgeous, but i aint dropping a small mortgage on a snowboard quite yet I reckon $400 is about my limit (even if collectively they end up costing me a mint because i cant seem to stop buying them).

[Jynxx 4]

I think everyone will agree that $1500 for a snowboard is just for show. It´s like wearing a rolex, cartier...

People like those pointy, surfbordy, dickshaped stuff.

But I think its just waiting to dig into crud, at a certain point it´s not helping you to lift but dig in and flip.

I´d also like my board to handle a bit of gloomers so blunt nose swallowtail would be my preference.

If I´m paying over $1000, it´s gotta be a splitboard.

Even Priors swallowtails´$800, half of the gemstick is pretty high, just because it´s a swallowtail.

[snowboarder 0]

There's a whole lot of words going on there!

 

Will save that for later.

[SKI 15]

Are you doing a ski guide next ippy?

[ippy 66]

for the sake of a pure challenge and just for the absurdity of someone who's never ever sat on a pair of skis explaining skiing to people who spend 50 days a year on the slopes, it might be fun. But i think its best left to people who know what theyre talking about if im honest.

 

I mean in truth, its just a case of reading a few articles and digesting the information (then explaining how its applied - which yuou can also work out by reading how *other people* applied it) so realistically anyone could do it. But its probably still better coming from a skier though

[ippy 66]

KK, might as well add the glossary, 2 secs while i sort it all out There are also links in the sierra/trusnow version, but i think its best not to set the precedent by bringing them here (plus theyre hardly essential stuff). Its nice having a site without hotlinking in truth

[ippy 66]

STEP 9. LINKS + GLOSSARY

 

Jargon Watch: Section by Section

 

The aim of this section is to give you a breakdown (and reminder) of some of the key terms used in this guide. These terms are organised according to sections rather than alphabetically.

 

The secondary terms round out most of the discussions, and although they aren't essential to it, they are obviously nice to know. They maybe crop up several times in different parts of the guide and offer a quick and handy reference guide if some of the language is tripping you up.

 

Key Terms:

Quote:

Section 1:

- Freestyle board:Freestyle does NOT mean park. It means boards that are often twin shaped and are thus, capable of being ridden switch and regular with little change in feel. They cover ALL the flex ranges, so although some are great for jibs, many of them aren't. Freestyle boards are the best boards for beginners and intermediate riders.

- Freeride board:Often directional shaped, these boards are very stiff, very unforgiving, and provide very twitchy response. They are usable in the resort, but their best use is outside the resort in gnarlier more complicated terrain.

- All resort board: A board that feels comfortable in all the areas of a standard resort: groomers; park; and side-country.

- Big mountain board: A board that feels especially comfortable outside the resort. Although capable of dealing with the more complex features within the resort bounds, these boards are best for riding through difficult and unexpected terrain. Within the resort they may feel a little dull and uninspiring.

- Park Board: Park includes small features like rails, boxes, and small jumps, but ALSO includes big features like kickers, huge jib features, and of course the halfpipe. Boards advertised for park riding tend to emphasise the SMALLER features. The boards for larger features tend to be sold as all mountain/big mountain freestyle boards.

 

Section 2:

- All Mountain Size:Your most basic standard size. This is your optimal size for hitting everything the mountain has to offer without sacrificing too much.

- Freeride Size:This is a few cm's longer than you're all mountain size. It offers more stability and more float than your regular size, but also makes the board feel a little stiffer and bulky.

- Freestyle size:A few cm's lower than your all mountain size. It allows a softer more forgiving flex, as well as faster turns and spins. It sacrifices stability and float to achieve this.

- Waist Width The width, edge to edge, at the narrowest part of the board.

 

Section 3:

- Longitudinal Flex:The board's capacity to bend from the tip to the tail. A high number indicates a stiff board. A low number indicates a very soft board.

- Torsional Flex:The board's capacity to bend from edge to edge.

- Flex:The actual way your weight impacts upon the boards length to cause it to bend. Sizing up or down, obviously changes the weight to length pressure and so causes the flex to change.

 

Section 4:

- Twin Shape:A board that is shaped exactly the same from the centre to the tip as it is from the tail to the tip. It has the same flex pattern, same shape, same everything. Thus it can be ridden in either direction exactly the same. Great for freestyle.

- Directional: A board that is built specifically to ride in one direction. It will usually have a progressive sidecut, a set back, and a different flex at the tip and the tail. These boards are BUILT to create the strongest ride possible so long as you go in one direction. turn the board around though and it will feel very catchy and uncomfortable.

- Directional Twin:A combination of one or all of the features of a directional board (flex pattern, sidecut, and setback), but with a twin shape.

- Taper:A change in the width at the widest part of the nose compared to the tail. A 30mm taper means a board that is 30mm wider at the nose than at the tail. Its sole purpose is to create float in powder.

- Set back:On some boards the inserts are not put smack bang in the center of the board. Sometimes they are placed offset from the center towards the tail. Centering your bindings will naturally result in you riding with a longer nose than a tail.

 

Section 5:

- Sidecut:An arc cut into the side of the board from contact to contact resulting in the hourglass shape of your snowboard.

- Sidecut Radius:The radius of the total circle established when the curve from contact to contact is extended to infinity.

- Sidecut Depth: The difference in size from the widest point of the snowboard to the narrowest point.

- Radial Sidecut: A sidecut with a single consistent arc from contact point to contact point.

- Progressive Sidecut: A sidecut with multiple radii. Often it simply means a sidecut that moves from a shallow radius at the nose to a deep radius at the tail. This makes turn initiation comfortable, whilst making the exit of the turn swift and powerful. More generally though it refers to all multiple radii sidecuts.

 

Section 6:

- Extruded Base:Polyethelene rapidly heated and pressed out in a thin film. It creates a semi-decent frictionless surface so your snowboard can shoot down a mountain. They are cheap and easy to make, but don't offer great performance.

- Sintered Base:Polyethelene slowly heated until the molecules fuse. it is then pressed together to create the base shape. Inside the material structure are small gaps which hold and absorb wax. It is also far more durable than an extruded base. These are much higher performance than extruded bases.

 

Section 7:

- Camber: If you lay a cambered board on its base flat on the floor, you will see it raise up in the middle. This is its camber. It's great for stability, grip, pop, and loading.

- Reverse Camber: Instead of raising up in the middle of the board, it inverts the camber with a pivot at the center like a see-saw causing the tip and tail to raise up. Reverse camber is great for forgiveness, float, pressing, spinning, and cruising.

- Zero Camber: A flat camber profile that does not raise up in the middle. Nor does the middle pivot the board. Instead it lies completely flat. This is a great middle option for people who want a bit more forgiveness, but aren't convinced that reverse camber can deliver the performance of regular camber.

- Hybrid Camber: A board designed with features containing both camber and reverse camber. Obviously a strong contender for the do it all quiver killer.

-Powder Rocker: A hybrid camber profile that places a lot of weight at the tail for control with turns, but also lifts the contact points at the nose for extra float. Ridden in one direction and specifically for powder.

- Camrock: Camber between the inserts but then kicks up slightly at the contacts.

- R + C: Reverse camber at the center, then curves back around the inserts to create a potentially strong camber point when engaged. If you press forward to initiate your turn, you lock in the camber. But when you don't need it, you gain the non catchy floaty feel of reverse camber.

- TBT (Triple Base Technology): A base design that works torsionally to raise the edges and thus the contacts for when you don't need them. However when you do require them, they lock in just like regular camber... for good reason: TBT IS REGULAR CAMBER. It is called triple base technology because the base design is in three parts: a central regular part for movement and transferring to the edge, and 2 gradually raised edges keeping the contacts from catching when you don't need them.

 

Secondary terms:

Quote:

- Backcountry Off piste terrain. Areas that are not covered by resort safety patrols.

- Base Gouge: A deep and noticeable scar in the base of your snowboard. Usually easily repaired with a spot of ptex on an extruded base, but can be more complicated to repair on a sintered base since the ptex may not bond.

- Bumps: Bumps in the edge that act to grip into the snow, but also slice through it like a serrated knife slices through a tough piece of steak.

- Buttering: A combination of various presses and spins on the ground in a fluid series of movements.

- Catching an edge: When running the board flat or moving between edges, a rogue edge makes contact with the snow pulling you suddenly off balance resulting in a tumble down the mountain.

- Catchy: When the board contacts lock into the snow usually when you don't want them to, or when it feels a little too aggressive.

- Charging: Point the board down that hill and BOMB it.

- Chop: Snow that has been broken up through people riding it, quite often hardening through the day to create a very uncomfortable and bobbly ride.

- Contacts: The part of the board (usually the widest part of the board) that locks in to the snow. To find a boards contact, just lay it flat and slide paper under it. Where it stop will be your contact.

- Core shot:A very deep scar that cuts through yoru base exposing the core. If you get one of these stop riding and get it repaired immediately. If left exposed the core will end up wet, which will rot the wood and destroy your deck. These will need to be repaired professionally unless you really know what you're doing.

- Deep Sidecut: A strong indent in the side of the board. This is good for short sharp turns and explosive movements

- Drag:When the board grips the snow a little hard causing the deck to slow down.

- Edge: The metal strip at the side of your board.

- Effective Edge: The part of your edge that ACTUALLY makes contact with the snow during a turn.

- Flex:The actual way your weight impacts upon the boards length to cause it to bend. Sizing up or down, obviously changes the weight to length pressure and so causes the flex to change.

- Goofy:Naturally leading with your right foot (I'm goofy for example).

- Hooky: When a board enters the turn a little more aggressively than expected or desired.

- Inserts: The holes where your bindings screw in.

- Jibbing: Hitting various features like flag poles, trees, branches etc, with the snowboard. You don't ride it, you just smack it.

- Kickers: Big Jumps with a large take-off and a landing slope. They usually have a gap of some description and it's very important you carry enough speed to clear it.

- Kinks: "Indents, you really got me gripping. You got me gripping so i can ride all night. Ah yeah! you really got me... <cough>" Caused by not smoothing out the changes in two radii, but dramatically switching from ne radius to another. When weight is applied on the edge, it creates kinks which lock into the snow more effectively than a smooth curve would.

- Leverage:Turning force caused by the distance from the central pivot of the board to the inserts. The further from the center, the easier to pull the board away from the snow.

- Loading: Directing your weight and energy into the contacts of your board. You use loading to create the boards pop. More resistance from the board creates a higher loading capacity and thus more pop.

- Longitudinal Flex:The board's capacity to bend from the tip to the tail. A high number indicates a stiff board. A low number indicates a very soft board.

- MTX: Magne-Traction: A system of 7 bumps designed by Mervin manufacturing to lock in to the ice offering multiple contact points instead of the standard 2.

- Noodle: A very soft, super bendy and flexible board.

- Pop: The board wants to get back into its natural shape. When you load the tail you are pulling it in a way it doesn't want to go. When you release that force, the board springs back into its natural shape. And this throws you into the sky. This is its pop.

- Pre-press: When you lean back on a camber board and pull on it you raise the tip. This gets you into a press. Reverse camber boards are said to be in pre-press position because you don't need to pull that board to lift up creating the effect. Instead you simply lean forward or back and the pivot causes the board to press.

- Pressing: Lifting the tip of the tail from the snow and riding on one part of the board.

- P-Tex:A specific brand of polyethelene. Although there are other companies producing polyethelene pellets, the industry uses the shorthand p-tex in much the same way as you might use the word tylenol.

- Quiver board:A snowboard that is particularly effective as a second or third board, but not really as a primary board.

- Quiver Killer: A snowboard that does EVERYTHING POSSIBLE ON A SNOWBOARD. You'll find it next to the leprechauns and unicorns. You'll maybe also find it at capita as well.

- Regular:Regular has 2 meanings: Firstly it means your most confortable riding style. If you prefer leading with your right foot, this is your regular riding style. BUT it also means a specific style of riding when contrasted to goofy: in this case it means leading with your left foot.

- Scorpioning: When you catch an edge and land on yoru face sometimes its so violent and sudden that your board kicks up up behind you like a scorpion tail. They HURT.

- Shallow Sidecut: A very shallow indent. This is best for long stable carving and gentle turn initiations.

- Stance Width:The width between your bindings. This impacts on leverage.

- Switch:Leading with the opposite foot you are most comfortable with. In my case that would be leading with my left foot. When I ride with my left foot at the front, I'm riding in switch.

- Torsional Flex:The board's capacity to bend from edge to edge.

- Urban Rails: Features outside the main resort, like banisters or rails around the shops at the resort, or even in teh center of the town. The stuff skaters LOVE riding.

- Washing: Caused by your boards contact losing grip with the snow resulting in the board sliding out under you. It involves you usually falling up the mountain so it's not so bad.

[Jynxx 4]

Hey guys,

I met these dudes who were testing out for fine tuning on a new board (yet to come) at Hintertux.

 

Named : Battalion Disaster !

[Jynxx 4]

I found today that I had mounted my binding On-Centre. Not quite sure when this happened. Had I been riding this way, or somehow I made a mistake putting it back on at the end of last season I´m not sure.

But, hurray! I can back it off and have 4cm setback! Longer nose and less back leg burn in pow.

Also noticed I´ve taken too much edge off the tail. No wonder I was slipping a bit on ice.

Looking forward to trying it out.

 

p.s. Ippy, proof your `setback´ explanation -

quote/ Centering your bindings will naturally result in you riding with a longer nose than a tail. /unquote, Isn´t it supposed to be `Setting back your bindings ....´

[RobBright 35]

You forgot the term "bottomless", but great good apart from that.

[ippy 66]

ah the point was to make a distinction between the two terms and retain it so that people didnt get confused by the language.

 

So your setback is something related to the actual physical properties of the board (a board with a 4cm steback means that if you put the bindings in the same middle holes in your inserts, the nose to the front binding would be 4cms longer than then the tail to the rear bindings. But offsetting it 2cms (putting your bindings 2cms forward towards the nose), would result in a centered stance (offsetting the setback).

 

if i used the expression "setting back" an already convoluted and difficult explanation would have become even more confusing So i stuck with offset to mean moving the bindings away from the center holes in your inserts, and setback to refer to the relationship between the inserts and the nose. If a board has a set back it is ALWAYS there, whereas YOU can offset this by moving your bidnings up and down the board.

 

This means you can also offset a true twin as well to give it a non centered stance that mimics a setback. This doesnt mean the board has a setback, it just means you've offset the boards twin shape. (even though it mimics a setback in practice).

 

I hope this makes sense. I just didnt want people to get confused. You can honestly use the language how you like, but i felt it was better to use setback in one specific way, and then to use offset as a means to describe the mode of changing the boards shape (into either mimicking a setback on a twin, or centering a board (and mimicking a twin shape) on a setback board

 

Bet you wish you didnt ask

[ippy 66]

PS. Went to ride in the indoor slope near seoul this weekend. On my nice rocker, ended up catching front edge after front edge. Proving that although i talk a good game, i still actually suck on a snowboard.

 

(in my defence, i caught more front edges in that 1 four hour session than i did in the whole of last year, so i blame the weird indoor snow ). also feel like i cracked my ribs. It still hurts 3 days later and it bloody kills when i cough.

 

Oh and no air bag up, so couldnt do all those somersaults i was obviously planning on doing in my mind

[Jynxx 4]

Got it

 

twin = centre meaning tip and tail same lendth

directional = centre meaning there is already an offset included and its called setback.

 

What I did was further offsetting by using the holes that can be used to vary stance width.

[joburge 0]

thanks for that! youl be pleased to know that is exactly what i was looking for!! about to buy a board for the upcoming season, having had a little look at your article etc how do you feel about buying online, ive found a few good deals and id really like to save the money if i could but dont want to be ripped off or comproise on quality... can i ask your opinion on that?

[Jynxx 4]

Just ordered one ...

 

 

 

Atomic Radon V tail 159

for 160 Euro

[Jynxx 4]

Thanks David

 

The new board is a 2008 and discontinued model.

(Got it from Amazon. Was 475-) For the price I paid. it must be the cheapest powder board around. And the last one.

Would do well in my local area...

 

specs;

 

D4 Sandwich Construction

Triadic Prog Sidecut

Sintered 7200 Base

Truth 3 CNC Kinetic Core

Inter Carbon SPB

1 Degree Power Bevel

 

Effective Edge (cm) 127.6

Waist Width (cm) 25.3

Sidecut Radius (m) 8.8/8.3/7.8

Stance Width (in) 22

Tip Width (cm) 29.7

Tail Width (cm) 29.7

stiffness 9 out of 10 (stiffest)

[ippy 66]

i have to buy online. I got no choice in that in truth since even wandering aroudn seoul my options seem to be restricted to massively expensive burton or endeavour boards. If i want capita or bataleon (as i do), then im out of luck

 

Its pretty much fine, but consider

 

1. Export restrictions. You wont for instance, find many people outside craigslist or ebay willing to ship a board direct outside of the online sites domestic market.

 

2. following on from this, you CAN use mail forward companies, but consider how this impacts warrantying an item if you need to.

 

3. Import duty. You are usually culpable for it. It adds 20% to the TOTAL (board PLUS shipping) cost on every item over $100 US for me in korea.

 

4. The shipping cost of course.

 

5. Your domestic markets ACTUAL prices. Japans MSRP's for example are pretty steep, BUT even pre season youll find say a rome agent rocker at 35% off. This makes the actual cost way lower than the MSRP.

 

6. Your alternatives: yahoo auction has plenty of steals on it. And all the best bargains youll likely find in local shops or through people who know people.

 

There you go. My advice on shipping

[grazza 2]

Against Ippy's sage advice (to be fair I ordered this as Ippy was starting this epic journey) this is what I have nabbed for this season. Freeride unforgivingness personified? Now I'm kinda scared it's going to be too much board for me and will beat me into senseless submission for my temerity in thinking I could ride it. Does look sweet though.

 

 

 

[Jynxx 4]

Very nice grazza

What length did you get?

I really like the new nose design. Very similar spec to my Radon but yours is a twin. Mine has the same nose and tail width but is directional. mmm.. strange. I looked at yours and the stance is 19in. too narrow for me.

[grazza 2]

I got the 167, which is a big step up from the current board. Same as the Radon in that the dimensions are same nose and tail, but it's very directional all the same. 53 days to launch date. Not that I'm counting.