NoFakie 45 Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Originally Posted By: Go Native Have you ever been to Sounkyo at the base of Kurodake? Now that is a very well planned and beautiful resort village. If only they'd had the same vision here... I had to look it up, but from the images on Google, that's an onsen town right? They tend to be walkable. I guess its because they are centered on the source(s) and they date from before when folk had cars and were all bussed in. Nozawa or Zao might be parallels on Honshu. The images on Google didn't make Sounkyo the town look particularly beautiful, but the location appears very dramatic. In the bigger onsen towns, their older cultural features are often swamped by huge concrete buildings. At Arima, Gero, and Noboribetsu, for example. Link to post Share on other sites
stemik 14 Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Needs to be steep to hold downhill events Link to post Share on other sites
Go Native 70 Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 I agree with most everything you've put there Diggs. The ski track out to the lower village is a must and should be from both the gondola and family run sides. Couple of bridges or tunnels under 343. Ice rink at Sunsports is also a great idea with possibly an ice village and area for kids to play. Totally wasted space currently. Getting higher end retail is going to be tough but I also think it's essential. And Rob shopping is nothing if not a central part of the Japanese culture. Making the resort into much more of a year round destination will be important in allowing such places to operate profitably. Not totally sure about the Olympic bid at this stage. Link to post Share on other sites
Go Native 70 Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Originally Posted By: Mr Wiggles Originally Posted By: Go Native Have you ever been to Sounkyo at the base of Kurodake? Now that is a very well planned and beautiful resort village. If only they'd had the same vision here... I had to look it up, but from the images on Google, that's an onsen town right? They tend to be walkable. I guess its because they are centered on the source(s) and they date from before when folk had cars and were all bussed in. Nozawa or Zao might be parallels on Honshu. The images on Google didn't make Sounkyo the town look particularly beautiful, but the location appears very dramatic. In the bigger onsen towns, their older cultural features are often swamped by huge concrete buildings. At Arima, Gero, and Noboribetsu, for example. It is quite beautiful, a hell of a lot more beautiful than Noboribetsu that's for sure. Most of the elements in the Hirafu master plan I posted on the other thread have been incorporated. I would love to see something similar to this in HIrafu. Link to post Share on other sites
NoFakie 45 Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Btw, any shinkansen to Hokkaido will be very expensive to use. From Hiroshima/Kyushu prices, you would think at least 35,000 yen return from Tokyo. Barring some sudden jump in fuel prices, it'll be cheaper to fly with a package. Link to post Share on other sites
JA2340 16 Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Originally Posted By: RobBright If that's being banished then I want to be there too. Banish ME!! Banish ME!! Please, please, Banish ME!! Link to post Share on other sites
NoFakie 45 Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Thanks for the photos GN. I couldn't find anything like that on google images in Japanese. It looks pretty good. No powerlines, intrusive signage, exposed air conditioners, or other junk. A pity about that concreted hillside in the background. Link to post Share on other sites
JA2340 16 Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Originally Posted By: D train would love to hear comments on these ideas both positive and negative ( like " digglar u dumbass" type negative if need be.) I've been a couple of trips to Niseko, and would be back in a heartbeat, BUT, I despair of the loss of such places as the 100Yen Noodle and other uniquely Japanese places in the upper village, replaced with "Western style" apartments. To me, the charm of the place was the mix of local and overseas influences, and from what I have seen (between my first and second visits a year apart) the mix has changed in favour of the imported. Link to post Share on other sites
Go Native 70 Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 I must say I've been very happy to see more international food styles coming into the village. For those here for more than just a week or two having some variety in what we can eat has been most welcome. Link to post Share on other sites
iiyamadude 6 Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Definitely. Someone mentioned this in another thread but a place like Zao and to some extent Nozawa where it's very much a traditional onsen village.... there's some great places to stay and fab food but not a whole lot of variation and if you don't like the Japanese flavors you're a bit stuffed. If you like them and here for a few days, you're in for a treat, though longer and I think it's limited. Link to post Share on other sites
Metabo Oyaji 71 Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Before I found this site, my outsider impression of Niseko was, "some place up north full of Australians selling real estate to each other." Now my impression is: "-- with awesome powder." Link to post Share on other sites
muikabochi 208 Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 BTW is "Niseko" the name of a part of Kutchan town, or is it just the name of the ski resorts on that mountain?? Link to post Share on other sites
Go Native 70 Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Most Aussies when talking about Niseko are actually talking about Hirafu. There is a Niseko Town but this is quite some distance from the mountain itself. I don't think Kutchan town officials have been too happy with Hirafu being referred to as Niseko. Still they can't complain too much as they are the ones getting all the extra taxes and business from the development and success of Hirafu. Link to post Share on other sites
grungy-gonads 54 Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 How come the place caught on as Niseko then? Link to post Share on other sites
TheOriginalMyoko 0 Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Niseko does sound better than Kutchan. About the Olympics. Is that a new rule then Rob? Or are you just mistaken? Link to post Share on other sites
RobBright 35 Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 nope - think hiroshima and nagasaki tried to to do it for some olympics, maybe 2016? 2020? And the IOC said twin bids not allowed, but that was for cities. Link to post Share on other sites
Go Native 70 Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Originally Posted By: grungy-gonads How come the place caught on as Niseko then? I guess the mountain as a whole has long been referred to as Niseko. Not really sure but the name is basically now it's own brand and certainly a very marketable one! Higashiyama being renamed Niseko Village was certainly a good marketing move. Can cause confusion for some though as they think a stay in Niseko Village is actually Hirafu. Link to post Share on other sites
Mike Pow 52 Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 Niseko range? Link to post Share on other sites
thursday 1 Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 Before "Outsider", please define "Insider" Link to post Share on other sites
thursday 1 Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 Or better still, please define "Outsider" Link to post Share on other sites
thursday 1 Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 And are Japanese who have moved into the area 2 years ago, insiders or outsiders? Link to post Share on other sites
griller 9 Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 外人 Link to post Share on other sites
HelperElfMissy 42 Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 I love the suggestions for a ski out, and the ice rink/snow play area for kids. Brilliant. And shopping - OMG YES! Not that I am a big shopper mind you - but always hit up Tokyo before or after our snow trips and have more than our fair share of funky jeans, BAPE jackets and what seems like Japan only snow gear (can't find anything that funky online in English). It IS an international ski resort town - that is a done deal. But adding extra's (above and beyond being naturally blessed with copious powder days) makes it a destination that people repeat trips to, spread the word, and it attracts a diverse market - rather than just the hard core snow junkies. Not that I am diss-ing hard core snow junkies, but really if you are skiing mainly off piste from sun up until close of lifts, taking an energy bar in your pocket and then retiring for an early night in your Japanese Style Lodge with some cup noodles you are not exactly stimulating the financial growth of businesses in the area in a massive way. Is it Mum and Dad with a few kiddies who stick the youngest in babycare all day, the 6 year old in ski school all day, send the 13 yr old with aspirations of Olympic glory off with a private instructor and then book a guided resort tour for themselves that make a huge difference. They buy lunch on the hill, and eat dinner out in a 'traditional Japanese' restaurant to give the kids the experience of eating with chopsticks. They buy the whole family "I skied the Peak" t-shirts even if nobody did. They try out the onsen - just for a laff. And if there was an ice rink - they would give that a crack too. And hang the expense - they are on holidays. Despite the sheer impressive athleticism if the hardcore they are just not going to keep these businesses afloat. So they market to attract those that will spend. And BTW - I put my hand up as another Rusutsu lover - I will be back there without any shadow of a doubt. But I will STAY in Hirafu (because there are so many more options of things to do, places to eat etc). Link to post Share on other sites
Go Native 70 Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 Well put MB. The most successful ski resorts in the world are those that cater well to families. Whenever a ski resort develops quickly there are always those that lament what was lost. Especially those that loved having a mountain to themselves, even if the mountain was going broke because hardly anyone was there. I think Hirafu needs to do a lot more though to truly be a family friendly village. Link to post Share on other sites
D train 0 Posted February 19, 2010 Author Share Posted February 19, 2010 like a mate in the gym biz told me- you never make money off the hardcore in at 7am guys. they shower too much use up space and because of them you have to get the new gear all the time. Without them though, you`ll never get the guys that buy the personal training packs and year memberships that really pay the bills (but stop coming after a month) Link to post Share on other sites
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