Thunderpants 0 Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 No, this is not an insult to the skiers. I have just got my new snowboard, a Head Intelligence, the one with the chip and the fibers that stiffens when you go hard, and i am anxious to get some info before the season kicks off. The technology was introduced on last years skis, and i was wondering if any of you fine people have ridden them and if so, what do you think of them ATB Thunder Link to post Share on other sites
Davo 1 Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 "stiffens when you go hard" Yes, I know I don't belong in the intelligent catagory and I'm not a skier either. Link to post Share on other sites
Thunderpants 0 Posted November 11, 2003 Author Share Posted November 11, 2003 good one Davo!! 10 out of 10 Link to post Share on other sites
Octavio Estrada 0 Posted November 12, 2003 Share Posted November 12, 2003 I am not intelligent. Link to post Share on other sites
Siren 0 Posted November 12, 2003 Share Posted November 12, 2003 The technology seems interesting. Link to post Share on other sites
crazyski 0 Posted November 13, 2003 Share Posted November 13, 2003 I used to work in a tennis shop where I sold Head racquets that had this "technology." In my opinion, this is merely a marketing ploy - the more new gimics, the more sales. I remember when K2 had a "plezioeletric dampening system" around '96...it was merely a piece of rubber. Get the equipment that suits you in the important catagories, sans the gimics - length, girth, sidecut, stiffness. Just like any good woman would pick a man. Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean11 0 Posted November 13, 2003 Share Posted November 13, 2003 I have piezoelectric stubble - pick me! Link to post Share on other sites
Fattwins 0 Posted November 13, 2003 Share Posted November 13, 2003 Its a gimic, but it will have to work to some degree. Aramda and the newer ski co. have said it the best. Half the crap they are putting in skis youll never understand or feel how it is working. IT just makes the skis more pricy. Shape and materials that make the core of the ski is what make the true differences. A stiff ski wont chatter as much as a soft ski. If you put a dampening device on a soft ski it will help but the stiff ski will still chatter less. Link to post Share on other sites
mogski 0 Posted November 13, 2003 Share Posted November 13, 2003 Your skis chatter?! You better get those looked at. My skis talk to me. They tell me where they want to go and I follow suit. You could call me a sheep. Link to post Share on other sites
badmigraine 0 Posted November 13, 2003 Share Posted November 13, 2003 Mogs, you're a kiwi. Nobody is going to call you a sheep. You know perfectly well how to call your own! Link to post Share on other sites
Thunderpants 0 Posted November 13, 2003 Author Share Posted November 13, 2003 acording to Head the energy from the vibrations goes to the IC, gets amplified?! and send back to the fibers? sounds really cool, maybe too cool to be true, because: there is no external power beeing supplied, yet the energy gets amplified?! have Head found a never ending source of energy?.. ahh well, i spent my summer bonus on that board, just hoping for the best! atb thunder Link to post Share on other sites
jared 0 Posted November 13, 2003 Share Posted November 13, 2003 I have only hazy memorys of 1st year physics but I think a sheet of metal between two magnatised sheets resists movement and turns the energy into electrical energy. (someone help me it was a long time ago) This was how the k2 skis powered the wee light that was built in to them that flashed at speed. Link to post Share on other sites
badmigraine 0 Posted November 13, 2003 Share Posted November 13, 2003 Physical deformation of piezo-electric crystals produces an electric current. They are used in some lighters to produce a spark. The reverse effect is also true: if you apply an electric current to piezoelectric crystals, they deform. They are used this way in speaker systems and, I think, cellphones, to generate sounds. Link to post Share on other sites
Thunderpants 0 Posted November 14, 2003 Author Share Posted November 14, 2003 Why am i trying to proove that my 10man is wasted? Ok, so you can generate energy from movement, i am clear on that! But Head claims that the signal is amplified and send back to the fibers. That is what i don't understand. what amplifies the signal? atb Thunder Link to post Share on other sites
badmigraine 0 Posted November 14, 2003 Share Posted November 14, 2003 Here's my non-expert analysis of the technical explanation I found on Head's website. Head's put piezo-electric fibers at a 45-degree angle along parts of the ski that torsionally flex (twist) the most. When the ski twists, these piezoelectric fibers bend and produce an electric current. The current travels along wires to a resistor inside the ski. The resistor stops this wildcatting current from burning out the microchip, but still lets the proper current through to the microchip. This microchip is an amplifier (amps are simple electric circuits, which can be, and frequently are, imprinted on chips for various applications). The chip amplifies the current 7 times, then sends it back along wires to the piezoelectric fibers...the current straightens the fibers, thus stiffening the ski where it was twisting. All the above happens in 5 milliseconds, which is plenty fast enough to be useful. Sounds brilliant. My questions, and there are many, could be summed up as follows: 1. Does it work?! And we'll wait for your first few runs so you can post back and tell us all about it! Link to post Share on other sites
Fattwins 0 Posted November 14, 2003 Share Posted November 14, 2003 Not saying your money was wasted. More than likly a good board but do you need it and how much diferent would the board be without it. Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean11 0 Posted November 14, 2003 Share Posted November 14, 2003 Of course it might just give you powerful electric shocks through the bindings causing interesting lighting effects in your jacket fibres. Go for it. You are clearly 'an early adopter'. Link to post Share on other sites
danz 0 Posted November 14, 2003 Share Posted November 14, 2003 K2s piezo-electric ski was not just a piece of rubber...there is alot of engineering put into that...and believe it or not, there is alot of engineering put into every corner, shape , twist and turn of your ski and snowboard...piezo-electrics are used on the wings of fighter jet planes...its the same technology...hardly a gimmick if you ride the pow, or do heavy bumps, or casual carving...then it is probably a waste of money...but if you are doing high-speed carving on hard-pack and ice, it could make a difference... I personally didnt dig the k2s back when they came out with their kit, but that was mainly the shape of the ski... thats all... danz Link to post Share on other sites
crazyski 0 Posted November 14, 2003 Share Posted November 14, 2003 Yup, my mistake. I got the wrong gimmick name. The piece of rubber I was thinking of was on the K2 MSL from around 95-96...I don't remember the name. The pleizoelectric gimic was first on the K2 Four. I use the word gimmick because I can't imagine that technology built to make meaningful electric current for a F16 doing mach 2 and 6 g's can possibly make a meaningful current for snow riding...even if you are pulling off deep carves on bulletproof crud. Marketing always disguises itself as increased performance - see any manufacturer's integrated ski/binding system. Link to post Share on other sites
Thunderpants 0 Posted November 14, 2003 Author Share Posted November 14, 2003 Badmigrane and others, thanks for the input, and forgive me for beeing a bir of a flyfugger, but: how in the world can a chip, however clever it is, amplify a signal whitout a external powersupply, if Head have found a way, why don't we all connect their chip to everything electrical, and get our power amplified 7 times at no cost? do you know what i mean? That beeing said, i cant wait to get the board in the snow, i have ridden a really cheap crappy board for my first 3 seasons, and this year i got some (hopefully) killer gear. I am really proud of myself, usually i am the kind of person who always buys expensive gear, only to find out that my abilities doesn't match the quality of the hardware. This time i know i have outgrown the old snowboard gear (not that i am the new Terje Haakonsen ) I started snowboarding at the age of 31 (what am i doing with that nickname?), here in japan. 2 years ago Yonex did some promotion of their boards om Hakuba 47. I tried a "real" snowboard, and just knew instantly what difference the board makes, wauw! anyways.. just sitting here writing off my heart, guess the waiting is hard on all of us! ATB Thunder Link to post Share on other sites
nzlegend 1 Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 Argh the K2 piezoelectric.....thats what still I ride now! K2 Scorchers! got them super dirt cheap at Gart sports. What a gimic! a flashing light! Does SFA to the overall dynamics! trust me I have been on them 6 seasons! I know Link to post Share on other sites
crazyski 0 Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 Quote: Originally posted by Thunderpants: [QB] Badmigrane and others, thanks for the input, and forgive me for beeing a bir of a flyfugger, but: how in the world can a chip, however clever it is, amplify a signal whitout a external powersupply, if Head have found a way, why don't we all connect their chip to everything electrical, and get our power amplified 7 times at no cost? do you know what i mean? Something everybody should know - the first two laws of thermodynamics: 1.) ENERGY CANNOT BE CREATED OR DESTROYED; IT CAN ONLY BE CONVERTED FROM ONE FORM TO ANOTHER. ie, head takes small amounts of mechanical energy (chatter vibration), converts it to electrical energy, which, in turn, "stiffens" gimmicky crystals which resist torsion (another form of mechanical energy). I imagine the chip assists in this process. 2.) WHEN ENERGY IS CONVERTED, IT IS NEVER 100% EFFICIENT. So, during this process, the chatter energy captured by the ski is less than that of the increased torsional rigidity from the gimmicky crystals. So, the universe is a big poker game, it has the following rules: 1.) You can't win (gain energy), 2.) you can't even break even (conversion of energy is not 100% efficient), 3.) and you can't get out of the game (this relates to the existence of, but impossibility to achieve, absolute zero). So, we can't use this chip to amplify our power supply...there's always a cost. Again sorry for the science treatise, but at least I didn't use molecular diagrams this time... Link to post Share on other sites
badmigraine 0 Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 Good point! Head's explanation is interestingly misleading, isn't it. That's what ads and sales are all about...suggesting that you might get something from nothing! Nobody (except maybe Head on their website and technical explanation of their "Intelligence" system) is outright claiming the impossible--that this system adds energy out of nowhere in violation of the laws of thermodynamics... I don't see any battery packs on those skis, either. The chip probably uses only a microcurrent portion of the power generated by piezoelectric fiber deformation to analyze the signal pattern and generate the optimal pulse response. The back end of the chip could be a regular op amp providing gain to this microcurrent signal analysis output. It would be powered by whatever current/voltage isn't being used to run the microcurrent signal analysis part of the chip. That would probably be most of the total power generated by the fibers in the first place. In summary, there might be a seven-fold amplification just as described in Head's ad copy. However, it's seven times the clipped microcurrent output of the chip, not seven times the power initially generated by the fibers. No net system gain. Another possible explanation: the amplifier referred to is not a "power amplifier". There are all kinds of amplifiers, not all of which need an external power source or provide a gain or increase in voltage or current. One type is called a "passive amplifier". The most commonly seen passive amplifier is a plain old TV antenna or a satellite dish...these use physical characteristics to collect signals and focus or bundle them together and this is dubbed "amplification"...even though they have no external power source and do not add net energy. Think about a "magnifying glass" which creates surprisingly destructive energy out of plain old light (how many ants did YOU fry on the driveway as a kid?). It could be that the chip in Head's ski is this type of passive amp, merely collecting the input from seven wires off the piezoelectric fibers. Could this be the "amplified seven times" to which their website refers? Other non-powered amplifiers can do things like modify this or that part of a signal input, such as altering the duration or amplitude of waves, without increasing net system power. The output is reductive transformation of the input, rather than a net gain, thus it requires no extra or external energy source. More likely, there is a big decrease in total power...instead, power is sacrificed to effect the desired transformation. Other types of non-powered amps merely separate or clean up signals to remove distortion or isolate data. This is sometimes done through induction (no external power source required--another name for this is "isolation transformer"). People used to have these on their turntables or pre-amps to clean up the signal and cut out noise, before the signal entered the powered amplifier and got boosted. So no need to break the laws of creation here. Let's leave that to us skiers and boarders during our onslope antics. Well then. If you've made it this far, how about a reward? The Optic Flare Girl-of-the-Month page. Science...it's sexy! Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean11 0 Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 I like transparent high-heel FM pumps. I find they amplify response and provide a distinct stiffening when extra torque is called for. Link to post Share on other sites
mattlucas 0 Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 That was a long post but the reward was great. Beautiful women. But maybe to summer looking. Must think snow. Link to post Share on other sites
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