daver 0 Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 even if he were to replace "birth-giving machines" with 'women', it would still be sexist in that it is assuming a women's sole purpose in japanese society is to bare children. Link to post Share on other sites
gamera 0 Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 Shame. I can not believe there's still someone who has this kind of thinking. Very old fashoned. Errr more like a feudal way of thinking. Link to post Share on other sites
Big Dogg 0 Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 My apologies for the previous post. I guess I was misinformed! My buddy, who's wife is a teacher told me that business about her being able to take a couple of years off work for child rearing purposes. I found one site that quoted just a matter of weeks. http://wom-jp.org/e/infoJAPAN/maternity1.html Come to think of it now, I recall conversations with female teachers at my work. I was kind of shocked to hear they have two-year-olds at home and they work like 80 hour weeks!! The time that they get to actually spend time with other family members seemed restricted to Sundays. That's no way to live! I think the cliche that I heard about Japan vs. America is: In Japan, people live to work whereas in America people work to live. Don't know the whole story, just enough to know that I wouldn't want to raise a family here... Link to post Share on other sites
veronica 2 Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 There's a guy at my office that looks and talks just like this guy. And he has the same kind of points of view as well. He irritates me no end. Link to post Share on other sites
Curt 1 Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 What a fool. Has the guy not resigned yet? Link to post Share on other sites
daver 0 Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 in all reality people should not be shocked at all by this. he is a 71 year japanese man. that might be a little judgemental, but if the shoe fits... what is the most disturbing however is 1st, the LDP's blase response. 2nd, and worse yet, when asked by the opposition women to sign a letter condemning the remark, the women members of the LDP and New Komeito Party all refused. this refusal can only mean one of two things; these women are not bothered by said comments, or these women are bothered but have chosen not to sign the condemnation for fear of persecution within their respective parties. i am having trouble deciding which one troubles me more. i hope the women of this country continue to speak their minds about this until proper measures are taken and then further demonstrate their unilateral disgust when it comes time to vote. Link to post Share on other sites
Oyuki kigan 0 Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 Quote: Originally posted by daver: i hope the women of this country continue to speak their minds about this until proper measures are taken and then further demonstrate their unilateral disgust when it comes time to vote. continue? when did they start? i would love to meet some girls whos idea of feminism and respect extends beyond just refusing to be facialized after sex. Women here have a lonnnnnng way to go, and its obvious the guys are not gonna do anything by themselves. Link to post Share on other sites
daver 0 Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 i know that, but as i have been observing this issue i have noticed a lot of women i know getting hostile and vocal about it. Link to post Share on other sites
SirJibAlot 0 Posted February 3, 2007 Share Posted February 3, 2007 But they really should make more kids - who's going to pay for all the old people? (probably me).... Link to post Share on other sites
number9 0 Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 Quote: Originally posted by daver: i know that, but as i have been observing this issue i have noticed a lot of women i know getting hostile and vocal about it. The Japanese women you know are likely very western influenced though, right? Link to post Share on other sites
daver 0 Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 hmmmm, good point. Link to post Share on other sites
charlotte 0 Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 I think this outburst has made 'normal' Japanese women rather angry though. Whether that is angry enough is another matter. What a ridiculous man. Link to post Share on other sites
Mary-Louise 0 Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Did you see that question time he did yesterday. My Japanese is not perfect but I could get what was going on. Idiot. Minomonta this morning was also saying that he wanted Japanese ladies to have lots of babies. Link to post Share on other sites
bushpig 0 Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Well he seems to have put his foot in it again by saying something along the lines that "young couples should want to have a happy family with at least 2 kids"... How much longer can Abe keep this fool around? Link to post Share on other sites
bushpig 0 Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Here is the actual quote: "Young people want to get married and they want to have at least two children in what is an extremely wholesome situation," Link to post Share on other sites
Tesselator 0 Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Quote: Originally posted by Bushpig: he said "生む機械" which is literally a birthing machine. I think he's right. Oops, does that make me a total fool too? Maybe huh? But I do note the distinction that he did NOT say that's all they were - as in "only birthing machines". And you have to admit that a VERY high percentage of females in Japan do not aspire to gathering much life expirience beyond their participation and roll as a wife and mother. But I say this too is a good thing! Why westernize them? They are not oppressed. They do not yearn to hold more power or importance. I think as westerners here we should enjoy THEM for who they are and how their culture has formed. We should NOT try to make them into Americans. America is a rediculous place after all and Japan is not - although as it becomes more and more westernized it too is becomming rediculous. Westerners tend to pick everythinng apart - examin everything much too closely and often take offence in doing so. Easterners and especially Japanese tend just to accept (as long as there is no inhuman injustice or misery) and enjoy life. "Muzukashii Gaijin" is what they call us and is how we are all too often seen in Japanese eyes. Women NEED careers in the US because the federal reserve has devalued our money and our ecconomy is messed up! Here they do not often NEED to work once married - although there was a ecconomy dip (bubble-pop) just a bit ago. When I moved here 20 years ago it was not Westernized hardly at all and what a refreshing place Japan was to be! Even more so then than now. So the way of the west produces few desireable results... mostly chaos and havoc. The way of the east applied has produced a very harmonious culture internally. Why otp for the bad way just because we are told through western indocterination that this is as it should be. Humbug! We can let the stats speak here too as to which way works. Compare the divorce rates. Japan is getting higher as they accept more westernisms. 20 years ago the divorce rate in Japan was something like 3%. In the USA at that time it was nearly 30% and I think it's even higher these days - more like 50% no? Consider the percentage of population that is incarcerated. Did you know that some huge number of American citizens are in prison? Something like 18.4% of the population USA-wide are currently in Jail or prison durring the year 2006. In Japan it is VERY low although I do not know the exact figure. I would guess 1% 20 years ago and 3% now as Japan has become more western. Also the literacy rate. The USA is one of the lowest in the world - Japan is one of the highest. I think the rate for Japan in 1987 was 88%. In the US that year it was fourty-something. etc. etc. etc. Sorry guys... this became kind of a rant huh? I just hate to see us all agreeing to make this place as messed up as the west - little by little. Bums me out man... Link to post Share on other sites
bushpig 0 Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Quote: Originally posted by Tesselator: Why westernize them? They are not oppressed. They do not yearn to hold more power or importance. Oh really? That reflects the fact that there are many more women in parliament than there were 20 years ago? Also, take a look at the fact that women really get shafted in the workplace re salary, benefits, promotion oportunities. They simply aren't given the same opportunities to rise as men in general. It's not for lack of wnt, but for barriers to prcatical/realistic career opportunities. Quote: Originally posted by Tesselator: Easterners and especially Japanese tend just to accept (as long as there is no inhuman injustice or misery) and enjoy life. Thanks for the laugh! Not speaking out because it causes more hassle than it is worth does not equate to being content with the status quo. Quote: Originally posted by Tesselator: Women NEED careers in the US because the federal reserve has devalued our money and our ecconomy is messed up! Here they do not often NEED to work once married - although there was a ecconomy dip (bubble-pop) just a bit ago. Need has nothing to do with it. Even if they want careers, there are very real barriers to overcome to get there. Besides, how many families do you know now (i know many) where the wife is forced to work to make ends meet? This is not an insignificant section of society. It is a very real and large demographic in Japan. Things would certainly be much easier if they could have careers and not have to scrimp and save while working for peanuts. Quote: Originally posted by Tesselator: The way of the east applied has produced a very harmonious culture internally.. Really? This may be true if you are in the wealthy priveledged upper/middle class of Japan, which contrary to popular belief does not make up as large a proportion of Japanese society. Is it really so harmonious for the underpriveledged or groups that are discriminated against (especially internally) like the Korean Japanese, Burakumin, etc, etc... Historically Japan never was harmonious internally. There was a ruling elite who kept the general population under control through force. Think Clans, samurai, warring clans, etc. Sorry , but I disagree with a lot of your rant! MAybe you should have waited until tomorrow and put it in the "Friday morning rant" thread! Link to post Share on other sites
gerard 6 Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 No time to read right now. I'll read it later. I think the kanji is wrong. I think 'umu' is from 'san', as in 'seisan' no 'san' Link to post Share on other sites
NoFakie 45 Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 It's great to see someone post more than one line!!!! You've got a lot of points there Tesselator. Anglo societies in particular have a lot of problems (I'm a Briton who thinks Europeans have a better lot) and I personally am not in a rush to leave, but its not a case of the USA or Japan, black or white. The lesser of two existing evils. There are lots of other possibilities. Japan without some old buffer of a Health Minister being one of them. Gender relations in Japan are certainly very different to the west, but this current issue has nothing to do with Westerners sticking their oar in. Based on what my missus and her mates say, the original problem is the word "machine" (he said both "kikai" and "souchi" (device/apparatus)). They reckon it was rude enough to the blokes' own wife, to say nothing of other women. They didn't seem to have a problem with the "child-bearing" part of the expression. Its the "machine=emotionless=of lower value than a living being" one. It seems like fairly standard Japanese thinking to me. Link to post Share on other sites
bushpig 0 Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 yeah, my miss when I put it in Ger. That should have read 産む機械 Link to post Share on other sites
happyhappy 0 Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 Quote: Something like 18.4% of the population USA-wide are currently in Jail or prison durring the year 2006. 18.4? You have got to be kidding surely?? Link to post Share on other sites
gerard 6 Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 yeah, 18.4 has got to be wrong. Even to say that '18.4% of the popn will be in prison at some point in their life' --seems really high! Plus if you figure that most people in prison are probably men, between the age of 18 and 35, then probably -like- half of that demographic would have to be in prison! Link to post Share on other sites
thursday 1 Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 Not sure about the 18.4%, but here's a feel. http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/newsroom/2005/BJS06002.htm probably a little higher now Link to post Share on other sites
thursday 1 Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 and from here: http://usgovinfo.about.com/cs/censusstatistic/a/aaprisonpop.htm "By midyear 2002, America's jails held 1 in every 142 U.S. residents" Surpassed that now of course. Residents. Link to post Share on other sites
Tesselator 0 Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 Yeah I guess 18% is wrong... I heard the number on the radio. Maybe it was 4.18% ? Anyway the percentage is like 50 times higher than Japan and many times higher than most of the eastern countries like Iraq/Iran (before the war), China, India, etc. The main point really is that the US system, ideals, and "norms" are less than adequate IMO. And in fact evidence would suggest that it is actually destructive. Ignorant of the proofs or perhaps in spite of them, most Americans (as portrayed in the media) strongly desire to force those standards on others - socially, ecconimically and politically. It just seems SO wrong and watching a great placce like Japan suffer as a result of it is a bummer for me. I see some of the reactions to this thread and maybe shown in the media, as a small example of this tragic conundrum. Link to post Share on other sites
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