bushpig 0 Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 FT, regardless of the cause, is it responsible for any government to continue to exploit a species which is endangered? Sure, they didn't create the problem, but the sure as hell are contributing to it now that we are stuck with it. The whole whaling debate is pretty ****ed up really. The anti-whaling parties really should just take a step back and be a bit less vocal about it. All they achieve in their hysterics is that the Japanese dig their heals in further. I have heard reports that the whaling industry in Japan is actually in pretty bad shape, and that if it wasn't for the government propping it up, that it would die a natural death. Demand just isn't there for it to be a profitable industry anymore. In fact some of the traditional whaling companies have been quietly shifting their energies out of whaling and into other areas. Right now it is being artifically propped up purely on the principle of it. Japan doesn't like being told what to do. I'm actually quite amused at the level of rage and indignation over the excuse of "scientific" whaling. Everyone knows it is only a cover, so why get consistently twisted into a knot over it? They aren't fooling anyone with it, so why turn that into an argument that they can attempt to defend and thus legitimize? Link to post Share on other sites
Fattwins 0 Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 I am anti whaling actually and i agree that governments must be responsible. But countries such as the UK, Canada, America etc that made a fortune from raping the environment really should understand where their collective wealth came from. Link to post Share on other sites
Mantas 3 Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 Every year over five thousand Humpback Whales migrate North past Boat Harbour. It's an amazing site. I can see them from my house, sometimes they breach (leap) right out of the water. I have been up close to them on my 'tiny' 12 foot kayak. We have one of the largest whale waching industries in Austrlia. Whales are worth more alive than dead around here. One of the first things you see when you board a whale watching vessel is a petition against the Japanese whale hunt. Ironically, most of the clientele are Japanese. To put a bit of perspective on things, it's not just whales that are under threat or endangered and every country has contributed to the degradation of these species in some form or other. The fact that the Japanese have a poor track record in this area and they have targeted one of mankinds more 'lovable' species ( when did you last see a Save The Tuna protest march ) doesn't cast them in a good light. Link to post Share on other sites
number9 0 Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 It's interesting how cute/beautiful creatures get a lot more attention than ugly creatures when they're both being overhunted/going extinct. But then, that's not much different than the cute/hot girls getting all the attention, so I guess that's just human nature Apparently minke whale is pretty low on the tasty whale meat order, which partially explains why people who've only had whale meat recently (within last couple of decades?) mostly think that they don't taste good (or at least good enough to justify paying premium to eat it over non-game meat like beef). Minke has been the most commonly available whale meat in recent decades. Are people who are opposed to whaling opposed to game in general? (Given the same level of endangeredness or the lack there of) Anyways, cans of minke whale, walrus, bear, and ezo deer curries at Sapporo airport. Link to post Share on other sites
moloneb3 0 Posted November 17, 2006 Author Share Posted November 17, 2006 I must say I would be tempted to taste the bear! That would be something original! Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean11 0 Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 > Are people who are opposed to whaling opposed to game in general? There's no such thing as 'game in general'. Some of it might be common as muck, and some of it might be endangered. I'm happy to eat what's not endangered, and not have anything to do with what is endangered. People who might feel tempted just to 'try' whalemeat should bear in mind that it's a very good way of getting a concentrated dose of heavy metals and endocrine disrupters. Enjoy! Link to post Share on other sites
big-will 7 Posted November 18, 2006 Share Posted November 18, 2006 I'll tell you what I don't like, closer to home. Seeing cows and chickens lined up in those sheds they have, never seeing outside said hut. I think of the cows back in England and how happy they must be (while they're living...). Link to post Share on other sites
number9 0 Posted November 19, 2006 Share Posted November 19, 2006 > There's no such thing as 'game in general' That's why I put a qualifier in brackets after the question. I guess I should have included it in the question itself so that it couldn't be taken out of context so easily. Link to post Share on other sites
snobee 0 Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 OC - I don't know about that!!! I'm sometimes generally game. And so's my wife. Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean11 0 Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 Sounds like you won't be going extinct then. Link to post Share on other sites
mattlucas 0 Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 Quote: Originally posted by big-will: I'll tell you what I don't like, closer to home. Seeing cows and chickens lined up in those sheds they have, never seeing outside said hut. I think of the cows back in England and how happy they must be (while they're living...). You telling me there are no sweatshop cows in England? Link to post Share on other sites
big-will 7 Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 I don't know Toque. There may well be, but I have cannot actually recall seeing any - at least any that obviously never went out of the shed. Cows are all over the place in the English countryside in the open fields. Even if there are some, compared to here I am pretty sure it will be way less common. It is very rare I have seen cows in open fields here. It is very often I have seen them cooked up and packed in a shed, surrounded by rice fields with 0 chance of them ever getting out for walkies. Link to post Share on other sites
farquah 0 Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 Farm stock have more rights than humans on rush hour trains in the UK. We have a set of laws that stipulates the size of pens a cow can be kept and also be transported in. I forget the actual size requirements but it is way more than people daily put up with on trains commuting in TOkyo or even on the tube. Also we have enough areas and grass growing conditions so often it`s cheaper and also possible for outside grazing during most of the year. I comne from a farm at home where we have about a 400 head stock and we feed out for 70 percent of the year. Unlike the US where they have fattening stations for cattle, purposely over feeding to a point where they are unable to support their own weight and crammed into small pens. Battery chickens yes but no battery cows in UK. In Japan it`s mainly due to lack of grazing space I would imagine, that and a lack of animal welfare laws. Zero grazing where they are kept in cramped, stark conditions is for maximum milk production. However you only have to taste the milk over here to see the difference. However you have to remember the difficulties facing farmers in the present day. Here i am talking mainly in the UK where government subsidies have all but dired up and the huge super markets have driven prices ridiculousy low and imported usually inferior meat from other countries where laws on animal welfare are less stringent. Maximum yields are a way of staying afloat, with the amount of hardships having been incured it is easy to see why some farmers would be forced into low cost high output methods without too much thought on welfare. Link to post Share on other sites
mattlucas 0 Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 Interesting indeed Lucky cows in the UK We have free range for the most part in Canada but there are still large feedlots where they are fattened up before the journey to the slaughter house Link to post Share on other sites
number9 0 Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 If and when livestock receive more rights and laws here in Japan, the gaijin community will be up in arms about having less rights than farm animals (while dressed up as said livestock, of course). Link to post Share on other sites
bushpig 0 Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 You thinking Tamachan? Link to post Share on other sites
daver 0 Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 Quote: Originally posted by number9: If and when livestock receive more rights and laws here in Japan, the gaijin community will be up in arms about having less rights than farm animals (while dressed up as said livestock, of course). don't we already? Link to post Share on other sites
Mantas 3 Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 If the Japenese are going to put temselves through all this grief and international condemnation to hunt an endangered species, then why don't they do something useful and send a boat down here and put a few harpoons into some of these Great white Sharks that are rapidly increasing in number around here at this time of year? This article was from last year. They have almost doubled in number this year. One of them scarred the absolute shit out of me last week out in the surf ! Link to post Share on other sites
farquah 0 Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 Mantas-Just get one of your Australian personalities killed by one and am sure the public would do the rest!! Link to post Share on other sites
lin 0 Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 What happened to Tamachan? Link to post Share on other sites
bushpig 0 Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 A seal that showed up in the Tama river for a week or so was awarded citizenship in the local town. They called it Tamachan. The media loved it and a group of foreigners promptly showed up wearing seal suits and demanding equal rights and citizenship Link to post Share on other sites
bushpig 0 Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 By the way, we all easily forget the crap that goes on in our own countries. What about the baby fur seal hunt/club-fest in Canada? It's not like Japan has a monopoly on brutal forms of killing things. Link to post Share on other sites
number9 0 Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 Quote: Originally posted by Bushpig: By the way, we all easily forget the crap that goes on in our own countries. What about the baby fur seal hunt/club-fest in Canada? It's not like Japan has a monopoly on brutal forms of killing things. That should be read: .. killing cute things. Tamachan curry, anyone? Link to post Share on other sites
thursday 1 Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 Quote: Originally posted by farquah: However you have to remember the difficulties facing farmers in the present day. Here i am talking mainly in the UK where government subsidies have all but dired up and the huge super markets have driven prices ridiculousy low and imported usually inferior meat from other countries where laws on animal welfare are less stringent. Maximum yields are a way of staying afloat, with the amount of hardships having been incured it is easy to see why some farmers would be forced into low cost high output methods without too much thought on welfare. I'd thought BSE had a lot to do with it. And who was that minister feeding his kid the burger on television in an attempt to convince everybody that the beef was safe. Link to post Share on other sites
Oyuki kigan 0 Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 Speaking of brutally killing cute things, i`ve seen video footage of the dolphin cull (is it in Fuso?) that is very, very disturbing. Anyone seen the documentary `Earthlings`? Link to post Share on other sites
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