TheOrange 0 Posted August 24, 2004 Share Posted August 24, 2004 Has anyone here got one of those dvd camcorders yet? I'm thinking of getting a new vid machine, but don't know whether to wait a bit longer to get a better version of the dvd ones or get a tape machine. Link to post Share on other sites
xxx 2 Posted August 24, 2004 Share Posted August 24, 2004 Arent the discs not very compatable yet? Best to wait for them to get better over the next few years? Link to post Share on other sites
badmigraine 0 Posted August 25, 2004 Share Posted August 25, 2004 Just got the Sony DVD201, about 100,000 yen at BIC Camera. It's my first videocam, so I can't compare it to the other types, but it sure is amazing. The DVDs are the smaller size but play in my home DVD player and computer DVD-ROM, no problem. They even have little chapter menus like when you rent a DVD such as Star Wars Episode One. The Sony digital editing software app that ships with it is pretty poorly designed and barely rates as bad. You'd want to have iMovie or Roxio Toast on a Mac, or one of the big DVD editing/burning suites like Roxio Media Creator 7 or Nero on a PC. A DVD burner drive would be nice so you can make copies of your DVD home movies to send home to your olds and all that. Or you could dub from your home DVD player to videotape, if, like me, your Dad still doesn't even know how to play a CD, let alone own a home DVD player. I love the damn thing. I would say the only objection I have is that now I have to go and buy a DVD burner and application suite heh...this winter should be fun with movies featuring Mogs wiping out at high speed, or the two of us gingerly getting about 15 cm of air and panicking all the while. Link to post Share on other sites
scouser 4 Posted August 25, 2004 Share Posted August 25, 2004 That sounds really good, actually, thanks for letting us know about that. I 'm going to look into it. Link to post Share on other sites
jared 0 Posted August 26, 2004 Share Posted August 26, 2004 DVD burners are getting pretty cheap now. 2 years ago 50,000 now 13,000 Link to post Share on other sites
xxx 2 Posted August 27, 2004 Share Posted August 27, 2004 cheese badmigraine, good info Link to post Share on other sites
badmigraine 0 Posted August 27, 2004 Share Posted August 27, 2004 OK, now I've been playing with it for a few more days and I can tell you it's the Real Deal. It is a really nice machine, works in low light, simple to use, if you buy the J version here you can download the E manual for the same model off Sony's US site...a total breeze. As for copying the DVDs, you can download the data to your computer, then use the camera itself to burn additional copies of the mini DVD. That's easy but the DVD-Rs cost about 850 yen each, so they're expensive copies. I haven't priced the regular size DVD-R or RW blanks, but I doubt they are 850 yen each. I don't have a DVD burner, so I tried a number of software applications (freeware, shareware and trial versions of commercial programs) to use my CD burner to make a "video CD" (VCD or SVCD). I am now an expert in all the ways this doesn't work right...example: first you have to transcode the DVD's .VOB and maybe some other files into MPEG2. Most MPEG encoders take about 4-5 seconds PER FRAME, even on a fast computer. They use almost all the processing power, so you can't do anything with your machine while they are tasking. With DVD at 30 frames per second, it took my computer over 2.5 hrs. just to transcode one 30-minute DVD. After that, I used a program to burn an SVCD...it wouldn't play on my computer DVD-ROM, my J DVD player or my US DVD player. Same when I made a VCD. No go. Just hours of wasted time and tweaking when I could have been sleeping or reading Sherlock Holmes stories while eating chips. The upshot of this and my advice to you and to myself is, forget about that crap. This is 2004, almost 2005, and you've just bought a DVD-burning handycam. Why, why why would you do this without having a DVD burner on your computer? You really want a DVD burner to enjoy this camera to the fullest. Then you could do your editing on the computer, and burn DVDs for everyone to see your amazing life. See you at BIC then. It's either a new puter, or a new DVD drive for me. Link to post Share on other sites
maoriboy 0 Posted August 28, 2004 Share Posted August 28, 2004 you can pick up new dual layer dvd burners for about 10,000yen now. dont go for a single layer burner they cost the same. I bought the LG SuperDrive Dvd burner a few months ago (single layer) because my cd drive crapped out. Now I wish I had waited Link to post Share on other sites
indosnm 0 Posted August 28, 2004 Share Posted August 28, 2004 I really don't see the point of a DVD video camera anyway (YET) . Basically the best function of it is that it can't chew tapes. Correct me if I am wrong but they also aren't available in 3CCD yet. If you are into making movies still the best way is to upload stuff from your camera using a software packsge ( my choice imovie or FC pro) then burn it to dvd ( idvd) for the safe keeping finished product. Is it possible to take film straight from your DVD if you put the disc into you computer without changing file codings? Link to post Share on other sites
badmigraine 0 Posted August 28, 2004 Share Posted August 28, 2004 I don't think the DVD cameras are a great leap over the tape ones either. I think I would have been thrilled with each one. This DVD one is my first, so I can't really say what the practical differences are. Yes, you can just pop the DVD into your puter and start editing away--you don't have to "capture" the data from the camera or tape/disc onto your hard drive. I have two drive bays, one with a DVD ROM and the other with a DVD R/RW that I just put in this afternoon. So I can make rapid DVD copies of the miniDVDs, to mail to my family. It's also quick to jump around and edit, no fast forwarding or rewinding, just skipping like on a CD. The other advantage I suppose is that DVDs are easier to watch (chapter menus-but didn't I hear some tapes have these now too?) than a tape, you don't have to play them back through the camera or a special digital tape accessory player. And I think the miniDVDs are smaller and lighter than the tapes. The downside is each mini DVD is only 32 mins. long (I think you can get an hour out of them if you change the recording format). I think you can get 3CCD ones, but you have to spend big bucks. Might want to wait a couple years until it is all perfected and much cheaper. We just had a baby, hence the "oh just buy the damn thing" approach to a vidcam. Heh! Link to post Share on other sites
grungy-gonads 54 Posted September 3, 2004 Share Posted September 3, 2004 When you stick the thing in your PC, how does it all appear, ie chapters, breaks, or whatever? Link to post Share on other sites
badmigraine 0 Posted September 3, 2004 Share Posted September 3, 2004 Same as when you put it in your DVD player. Chapters with thumbnails showing how each chapter starts. The problem I'm now having is with the cruddy movie editing software (ULEAD Movie Factory) that shipped with the new DVD burning drive I just put into my PC. The damn thing is so buggy and doesn't even do what it says it will. I can easily burn a straight copy of the DVDs I made in my new videocam, but I have yet to be able to edit them. Sure I can use the Sony editing software that came with the camera, but it is clunky and nothing special. I need a Mac and iMovie I guess. This part of DVD authoring is just not ready yet on the PC platform. Maybe next year the programs will do what they say they would. Link to post Share on other sites
jared 0 Posted September 4, 2004 Share Posted September 4, 2004 Adobe Premiare is OK but avoid Encore like the plauge. Link to post Share on other sites
indosnm 0 Posted September 4, 2004 Share Posted September 4, 2004 I am not sure that if you pau a dvd in your drive on a MAC that you will be able to import it into imovie. Because normally you are able to pull files of a dvd that way in imovie. Link to post Share on other sites
grungy-gonads 54 Posted September 4, 2004 Share Posted September 4, 2004 Whats the release schedule on these things right now? ie. how often are they bringing out new models - every 6-9 months or so? I suppose the advances made at each interval are considerable. Link to post Share on other sites
badmigraine 0 Posted September 4, 2004 Share Posted September 4, 2004 It's not really a question of the camera technology, because the camera puts out the same kind of DVD as you get when you rent Harry Potter or Ilsa, She-Wolf of the SS...minus the copy protection of course! The problem is that DVDs are in a weird .vob and .inf file format...and each DVD has a few of them sprinkled around. I'm not clear on how they all make up one DVD, but I'm sure I'll be learning this soon. The PC editing software I've tried so far requires transcoding or recoding of this .vob file into another format such as avi, dvx, wav, mpeg2, etc., before it can edit it. This is a processor-heavy job that can take hours. You go away and read a book while it is being done. Even on the latest fast machine it takes forever. Professional studios use hardware transcoders dedicated to just this job. I wonder what those look like. It would be nice if I could just edit the .vob file itself, but I guess we're not at that stage yet. And why is there more than 1 .vob file on my DVD? This editing technology is just not ready yet. Now I know what it feels like to be a "early adopter". There are some Internet pages and forums for "DVD rippers"...it all sounds so neat, but you have to spend hours patching together various utilities and transcoding and doing all this weird stuff. You need several programs, some are buggy, some aren't free. The major editing suites like Roxio's and ULEAD are cobbled-together packages of several such different programs masquerading as a single unit. Lots of bugs and incompatibilities. It's not ready yet folks. Too soon. Come back in a couple of years maybe. I've heard iMovie can do it better, but I don't have a Mac. Another option is to read the manual for my DVD camera, to see if I can record directly in a format that is easily edited. The problem there is that such format, though editable, would not be a DVD file that could be played on my Dad's DVD player back home. I'd have to convert to DVD format, or poor-quality VCD formet or something. Another option is to use the stark clunky Sony software that came with the camera to edit the disc while it is still in the videocamera. The manual says I can do this. I think this is because the info on the DVD before I "finalize" it in the camera is in editable format, probably MPEG2 or something. When done in-camera editing, I could then finalize the disc, pop it into my PC and make copies of the DVD for friends. I'm going to try that this weekend. Whoppee. Link to post Share on other sites
joshnii 2 Posted September 5, 2004 Share Posted September 5, 2004 I'm in the market to buy a vidcam soon - had a look at that model last night in Ks Denki. Very small, looks really cool these dvd ones certainly are appealing., Got about 20 pamphlets that I'm looking over today. Such a hard choice. Link to post Share on other sites
indosnm 0 Posted September 5, 2004 Share Posted September 5, 2004 joshini, I cannot recommend this little 3CCd camera enough. Get a wide angle on it and you are laughing! Its going for 69K on kakaku.com Its the pana NV-GS200K Link to post Share on other sites
joshnii 2 Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 Thanks - Care to elaborate? Link to post Share on other sites
grungy-gonads 54 Posted September 9, 2004 Share Posted September 9, 2004 Quote: Same as when you put it in your DVD player. Chapters with thumbnails showing how each chapter starts. Do (can) you specify the chapters? Link to post Share on other sites
indosnm 0 Posted September 9, 2004 Share Posted September 9, 2004 Quote: Originally posted by joshnii: Thanks - Care to elaborate? Yeah, if you want the optimal picture quality don't settle for anything less than a 3ccd camera. Its small but not too small so that functions such as zoom etc are difficult to get to. You could spend just a tiny bit more and get the new panasonic gs400 which has a finer quality but its main feature is that it has a 4mega pixel still picture capability. ( I still stand by my statement that if you want a digital camera get a seperate on as a 2 in one is never as good as a solo version) I even bought this baby in J model.. the e manual is on the web, and is almost spot on with the J version. I first bought a 3ccd when they came out at $3000 aud!! ( that was duty free 50% off!) now you can get this all for under 7man! just keeps getting better! Link to post Share on other sites
rach 1 Posted September 10, 2004 Share Posted September 10, 2004 The dvd ones are all about 1ccd, right? Does that make them really crappy pictures? Link to post Share on other sites
jared 0 Posted September 10, 2004 Share Posted September 10, 2004 1ccd is what most cameras have been until now - that means that the camera has one light sensor and guesses what colors to use based on the grey scale. 3ccd means that there are 3 sensors (one for red, blue and uhh..the other main color) giving you more realistic colors on screen. Link to post Share on other sites
indosnm 0 Posted September 10, 2004 Share Posted September 10, 2004 Quote: Originally posted by rach: The dvd ones are all about 1ccd, right? Does that make them really crappy pictures? No rach, It does not make them crappy, but just not as good as a 3 chipper. I have used a 3ccd since 1998 and I can definately tell the difference. I got a 3ccd becuase we were selling footage for surf/bodyboarding vids, so the higher quality was needed or no $$$! Funny thing is people are still buying expensive 1 chippers when you can get something way way better for the same price! But I am biased. Link to post Share on other sites
joshnii 2 Posted September 11, 2004 Share Posted September 11, 2004 Thanks. Any idea on what the timeline is for these dvd ones to become 3ccd? Link to post Share on other sites
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