the hot new ski destination

[eskimobasecamp 0]

according to the Guardian newspaper, that's what japan is -

 

http://travel.guardian.co.uk/countries/story/1,,1890028,00.html

 

SJ gets a mention at the bottom of the article

[gerard 6]

Wow! Japan sounds really cool.

[damian 0]

I don't like it when articles start with this emotive-descriptive jabber paragraph. This is a story piece, so it is slightly understandable that they use this technique. (aside: It really annoys me when factual news articles do it as well).

 

 Quote:

The snow has been falling steadily for two days. Huge flakes have piled up into thick slabs on the gently sloping roofs, adding an entire storey to the height of the houses. As I step through the door of an ornately carved wooden building, the temperature suddenly rises. Billows of steam slowly climb to the vaulted roof, where a skylight filters a glow from outside. There are about 15 men inside, most naked...

So they like being descriptive? If so, its interesting to see them using what I consider to be the famous British "food and drink" collective rather than anything more culturally engaging, appropriate considering that 'food' is a passion in Japan. At least the writer mentioned the boiled egg later on and some cheap noodles.

 

 Quote:

The mountains are lower than Europe or North America, typically topping out below 2,000m, so altitude sickness is not a problem.

How many resorts in Europe or North America have lift served terrain high enough to give you real altitude sickness? Not many considering that 4000m is the generally agreed (and personally confirmed on many occasions) threshold for the effects to kick in.

 

 Quote:

The Japanese generally get less holiday leave than us...

Bullshit. England gets less public holidays than most countries. Japan gets way more than most. I should know, I worked back-to-back for two years in both places and England was like a prison camp.

 

 Quote:

I've come to Nozawa Onsen, a spa town and ski resort an hour and a half's journey by Shinkansen - the bullet train - from Tokyo.

No it isn't. What's the nearest shink station to Nozawa Onsen? Huw, for when you actually do visit Nozawa in the future, heres some handy travel info for you: Nozawa has no train station, but is connected by bus to Iiyama and Nagano Dentetsu lines. From Nagano Station [the nearest shink station, 90 minutes from Tokyo] take the Iiyama line to Togari Nozawa Onsen Station (a 60 minute journey). There are trains almost every hour and most trains have a direct bus connection. The bus ride takes about 20 minutes. (from SJ.com)

 

 Quote:

One night I walk the streets of Yuzawa, a town in the heart of the Japanese Alps.... I am mesmerised by the colours of the lights.... There's something childlike about being surrounded by bright billboards which have no meaning apart from their aesthetics... The chic boutiques and computer games shop that stand sentinel, either side of an ancient sacred shrine, the kimono-clad host at the traditional tearoom I sit in, politely serving a group of young tattooed snowboarders.

I'll take a risk, I might be wrong, but I bet that the writer is lying here. Sounds like he never left Asakusa. Keeping in mind that Japan is a country that bans tattooed people from public swimming pools and baths, I have no comment on sleeveless snowboarders and tattoos in kimono-clad traditional tea rooms.

 

 Quote:

Food is also reasonable; one lunchtime I sat in a little local noodle bar that looked as if it was part of the set from Blade Runner...

There he goes again, getting Shibuya mixed up with Shiga Kogen. Perhaps he had just read the description of Tokyo from the Lonely Planet guide?

 

Great that Japan gets some publicity. Better that SJ gets a mention in the footnotes. Pity that it was researched from an office cubical in Farringdon using wikipedia.

 

Great article Huw, about as good as most other news paper attempts recently. Japan deserves better coverage.

[dizzy 0]

good exposure/PR for SJ. but i wish travel writers would get their facts straight before writing about foreign countries:

 

"Each winter, strong winds sweep tonnes of the stuff from Siberia, across the Sea of Japan and deposit it over the Japanese Alps on the main island, Honshu, and the extinct volcanoes of the northern island, Hokkaido."

 

What about the active volcanoes on Hokkaido: Mt. Showashin-san (last erupted in the 40s as far as i know), Mt. Usu (last eruption 2000) and Mt. Tokachi (last eruption 1989)?

 

agree w/ you spud, i don't get the feeling he was walking around any ski town at night.

 

 Quote:

Originally posted by le spud:

I don't like it when articles start with this emotive-descriptive jabber paragraph. This is a story piece, so it is slightly understandable that they use this technique. (aside: It really annoys me when factual news articles do it as well).

i'm curious, what do you wanna read in a 'story piece' on travel? do you wannt read just the facts? is it that the voice of the writer switches from an adjective-loaded opening paragraph to a less adjective-happy description later on in articles that gets you? i don't know much about journalism, so i'm curious.

 

actually, spud, a lot of U.S. vacationers to places like Colorado and Lake Tahoe have to spend time acclimatizing. a lot of courses in CO resorts range i think from 8,000-9,000 ft; Tahoe is up there a ways, too, the Heavenly summit is at about 10,000 ft.

[damian 0]

I was misplaced in jumping on the descriptive opening paragraph. Personally I don't like them but what does that matter, this is a descriptive travel piece so it is understandable that writers artistry would be employed. My preference is to introduce the topic with some facts that put the story in context, then during teh text to read (factually accurate) poetic descriptions of smells, sights and sounds of a foreign land. Most of teh time the descriptive paragraph intros all start the same way, it sounds like they learnt how to write from a text book. I can hardly point the finger, but then I am paid to work with numbers, not a pen.

 

10,000 feet is only 3000m. It is high enough for some mild effects from altitude that most people would hardly even notice so I am amazed that people need to acclimatise, although each person is affected differently and some outliers are to be expected. For the first night or two sleeping at 3000m can disturbed, but it isn't as though the village is at 3000m, only the top lift and perhaps a small restaurant: an area where people spend little time physically exerting themselves. I'm going to reserve my right to politely giggle at people who need to acclimatise for 3000m.

[holo 0]

it can only be good for the Japanese ski industry to get some international exposure.

 

Despite the inaccuracies mentioned by others it is surely a step in the right direction. Amongst passionate skiers/boarders it doesn't take much to spread the word. Heck, even regular exposure and spruiking on ski forums based in other countries will rustle up a few visitors. IMHO.

[SnowJapan#Andrew 6]

I actually met Huw for a short time when he came to Japan last winter, and he did actually come to Yuzawa - he was here in the office for an hour or two, we had a good chat about things. I remember trying to help him get to Nozawa and know that he did actually go there too.

 

My general observation about general articles - and please note that I am not saying this applies here at all - is that there are often certain things and companies that they need to mention... you know, the people funding the trip in the first place and the like. So they are often far from balanced unfortunately. The way things are I suppose.

 

It is great to get a mention of course - thanks for that Huw if you read this! We often get mentions like that, often times we don't even know about it until someone tells us.

[Yuki's Passion 1]

Sweet Yuzawa has Snow Monkeys?!?! Im there for sure this year - esp if you can see them swinging from branch to branch, or sitting in onsens from the lift

[SnowJapan#Andrew 6]

No Snow Monkeys here, not "official ones that do onsen and stuff" like the famous Shiga Kogen ones anyway

 

Coming to think of it though, there have been quite a few monkeys around this autumn. And bears too.

[holo 0]

more people may be viewing these forums as a result of that article and reference to SJ.

 

Will people now be on their best behaviour ?

[NoFakie 45]

I'm with the May Queen (*), down with airy-fairy prose! Especially unimaginative, cliched, me-too airy-fairy prose. It makes you think every travel writer must just be someone's mate on a freebie.

 

Flying UK to Japan is hard on the jetlag (leave lunchtime-arrive 12 hours later in the morning) so the author would be better off getting his travel info straight, less folk think they can reach Nozawa in a short hop from Narita.

 

Billboards for aesthetics? Aye, if you say so.

 

Good exposure though, I give you that. Took their time, though.

 

(*) a type of potato

[SnowJapan#Andrew 6]

There's certainly an increase in interest, I have really noticed it this last year and I'm sure that will continue.

 

We have had an increasing number of publications from overseas asking us about helping out with info. More often than not, it has been a case of "we're doing an article on Niseko and....". So I think there will be a general continuation of the Niseko-theme for this season at least. Perhaps that will change in the coming years as other areas get more of a spotlight. We are certainly trying to inform people who do contact us that there is more to Japan than just one area, however good that area may be.

 

There will be some articles coming up soon in the New York Times and a few more major overseas newspapers (things that were prepared last winter).

[damian 0]

(*) you had me stumped there for a second.

 

I'd like to know more about the traditional Japanese tea house in Yuzawa with a komono wearing lady serving tattooed snowboard punks.

 

- why would tattoos be tolerated in a traditional tea house?

- how did he know that they were snowboarders? Did they bring their boards into said traditional tea house?

- why were snowboarders in a traditional Japanese tea house in the first place?

- how did he even see the tats? I mean, you don't often see dudes getting round mid winter in t-shirts or tank tops. Even indoors after the winter jacket comes off, we all normally wear long sleeves. And after all, this is Japan where everyone always dresses according to the rules of the season. That is a given.

 

Anyway, to repeat myself and others: good exposure for Japan and SJ.

[SA 0]

Hiking in Nepal I was told altitudes of 3,500m and above are when altitude sickness is regarded as potentially being a problem, if you're going to get it.

 

Beyond that I was also told that the threshold is personal and there is no one altitude level that applies between people, and that the level you get sick one time can even vary the next time (obviously not what you've experienced le spud).

 

All my friends in the UK get 5 weeks annual leave or more. The missus works for a UK company in Oz and also gets 5 weeks leave (usually 4 weeks in Oz). Does Japan offer than much annual leave??

 

Can't say the writing gets my juices flowing either...

[damian 0]

Yes, all bods are different. A guess a good guide starts looking out for symptoms at about 3500m and some people do get them. But most people I've toured with have been hit with the first significant symptoms at 4000m. I hiked like a monkey for 5 hours up to a 3900m summit (a personal altitude record at the time) and besides being a bit worn out, I felt great, strapped in and tore down it without so much as a headache. The next day, different peak, hit 3900, no worries. Twenty minutes later I hit 4000m, a new record and bang, it started. It gets exponentially worse for every 100m above 4000. By 4500m the head is exploding. I reached 4800m and couldn't imagine going above 5000m without serious preparation.

 

Without looking at my watch I can tell you pretty accurately when we hit 4000m. Some people cruise past it and hit the wall at 4200m...

 

Annual leave in UK: I was actually talking public holidays as it suited my little objection better . Japan gets loads of them and the UK not so many.

[SA 0]

Do Japan ones work out close enough to actually take an o/s holiday on them??

 

*books ticket*

[gerard 6]

Sure the article is a little cheesy but I'd say 'Give the guy a break'. It makes Japan sound like a bit of a freak show but a lot of people think that skiing in Japan means skiing in a dome on artificial snow with pics of Swiss alps in the background and lunch at a teppanyaki restaurant. For many Brits, it probably goes a long way to braoden their image of Japan. Plus it's entertaining.

[gerard 6]

Spud, you picked apart the Guardian article in quite a bit of detail so I'd like to return the favour with respect to your altitude rant.

 

First of all many of though Canadian resorts are not as high, with Sunshine Village topping out below 10 000 feet, the major resorts in Colorado and Utah have summit elevations of between 11 000 and 13 000 feet. That's pretty damn high. That will slow most people down, including myself, at least for a day or two. I don't know much about Europe.

 

You said that you hit 3900 meters, then 4000 the next day. 100 metres makes a difference, but after a day to acclimatize, you should have been fine. Actually altitude symptoms are unpredictable and really varied and everyone reacts differently so I won't accuse you of dreaming up the whole thing over a beer and a sausage.

 

But, I'm pretty skeptical when you say that you can tell when you hit 4000 metres just from the effect of the altitude. Indiviuals react to altitude differently under different conditions, depending on how hard you're working (eg. hiking vs sitting on a lift), acclimatization and even how much sleep you've gotten the night before.

 

You also said you hit 3900m without so much as a headache. There are many symptoms of altitude sickness and actually a headache tends to be one of the more advanced symptoms. Before that, many people feel generally tired, lack of appetite, shortness of breath, etc. etc. And as a far as I know, there's no magic number (ie 4000 m) at which people start feeling sick. People might feel the less obvious symptoms well below 3000m, depending on the situation. I once hiked from the village to the top of Whistler in the late Spring with my skis. I was living in Vancouver at the time which is at sea level and the hike was pretty tough and I wasn't in great shape at the time. The summit of Whistler is only around 7000 feet but I felt like crap up there and couldn't enjoy the ride down properly, I think because the combination of exercise and... altitude (?). I've never had a problem when propelled by lifts at Whistler or Banff however, and I once took a Gondola to well over 4000m in China but no problems. Hiking in Nepal on the other hand was brutal at times, but we hiked to around 5400m so that's to be expected. Everyone reacts differently, but individuals also react differently on different days.

[cheeseman 1]

Rather than it be cheesy, I saw no mention whatsoever of cheese. (Unfortunately).

[gerard 6]

The original article made no mention of cheese. As for the effect of cheese on altitude sickness, the results are inconclusive but I'll keep you posted. I lament the fact that I can't find good cheese at a reasonable price where I live but Spud's probably eating good cheese in Europe.

[daver 0]

Spud, i have been monitering your posts a lot recently and you have been sounding rather cranky of late. you need to get out of the office and enjoy yourself a little more mate. do us all a favour and entertain us with your adventurous stories, and stunning pictures. don't waste your time disecting a simple sales piece. if it was all a lie, so what? it is exactly the type of lie that the uniformed money spending tourists want to here. and isn't that who the story was for?

[dizzy 0]

 Quote:

Originally posted by SnowJapan.Com#1:
Perhaps that will change in the coming years as other areas get more of a spotlight. We are certainly trying to inform people who do contact us that there is more to Japan than just one area

kudos, SJ

[dizzy 0]

food for thought, not meant antagonistically:

 

 Quote:

Originally posted by le spud:

- why were snowboarders in a traditional Japanese tea house in the first place?

they might even have known the owners of the tea house...

 

 

 Quote:

Originally posted by le spud:

- how did he even see the tats? I mean, you don't often see dudes getting round mid winter in t-shirts or tank tops. Even indoors after the winter jacket comes off, we all normally wear long sleeves. And after all, this is Japan where everyone always dresses according to the rules of the season. That is a given.

who is the "we"? maybe it wasn't a normal night for them. i've seen (japanese) people wearing shorts and tank tops inside izakayas in mid-winter

they might even have been yak tattoos, who knows.

you have seen yaks in onsens before, yeah? i mean full body to the elbow or wrist tattoos. plenty on the beach and at the ski hills, too.

 

 

as for CO, yeah A-Basin is 13,something hundred feet, 12,500 highest chairlift in North America, i believe. but the vacationers who go there are mostly from the east coast or the mid-west who's usually exercise routine consists of stepping up and down from their SUV in the suburbs and throwing the bowling ball down the alley once a week.

 

for someone who grew up in chicago (no, not from CO, spud, just uni), it took about a month for me to get used to the altitude where i lived in colorado, and that was only 5,000 three hundred whatever feet.

[damian 0]

Yeah, you may have explained some of my questions. Could be what you say. Dunno.

 

Its not that important, I just think it is an unlikely image: modern young snowboarders with tatts on show hanging in a traditional Japanese tea house being served by a polite gentle lady in a kimono. It sounds like two separate events blended together for the benefit of weaving a story about Japan.

 

The only tatts I saw in an onsen were mine, cause I only a ever went to private onsens with my girl. Public bathing with my mates has never interested me.

[damian 0]

Hi Ger, cheers.

 

I didn't really appreciate what was going on at the time, but it was for me a big deal and has changed my life since. Its pretty much all I think about these days, like an obsession. I'm looking for crew that want to band together and commit to giving more of that type of thing a go, to make it our purpose. There are so many peaks and mountains to be ridden, it makes me sick just sitting here and not doing anything about it. Perhaps it's just the double espresso I had.