The Fiscal Cliff Explained In a Much Better Perspective

[Chriselle 158]

As you said we'll have to agree to disagree on this subject. There's virtually nothing you've said above that I would agree with. All right wing propaganda as far as I'm concernd, not based in reality at all. I'm guessing you would love watching Fox News if you can get it?

[Chriselle 158]

one last one GN......

 

[Thundercat 60]

The rich pay their fair share?

 

Billionaire investor Warren Buffett believes the rich don’t pay enough in taxes. Buffett said his 2010 tax bill was $6.9 million. That was about 17.4% of his income. Even though that’s a lot of money, he was taxed at a much lower rate than 20 other people in his office. An average of 36% of their income went to taxes.

 

Buffett's tax rate is actually 4% lower than the lowest income tax bracket in Canada. I doubt very much that he is unique in being rich and paying a lower percentage of tax than poor people.

[BagOfCrisps 24]

At what point does someone enter the 'rich' category?

 

[HelperElfMissy 42]

As you said we'll have to agree to disagree on this subject. There's virtually nothing you've said above that I would agree with. All right wing propaganda as far as I'm concernd, not based in reality at all. I'm guessing you would love watching Fox News if you can get it?

Wanna know what's hilarious...much as I agreed with your previous statements I agree with Chriselles to the same degree!

 

And strangely enough I do not see a conflict in them working together. It's not right wing, or left wing, it fairness, doing a bit extra when you can, stopping the bludgers who are refusing to work or earn and refuse to pay their way, but supporting those who truly need it.

 

Buffet should pay more.

He earns a shiteload more than I do and I pay company tax of 30%, and then 45c in the dollar on the wage I pay myself.

It's reasonable. It's a LOT, and no one likes paying it, but at those rates it works.

I also pay private health, send my kids to private school and don't claim any government benefit or service other than general roads, ocassionaly use public transport and make use of the minimal government funds injected into the school I have chosen.

 

But that's OK.

 

Crack down on the cheats, raise the threshold or even the highest tax rate in the US, and see the financial crisis start to go away. Simple.

[Go Native 70]

The right wing propaganda bit MB as far as I'm concerned is this continual portrayal of people on benefits as moslty slackers and cheaters. It's basically demonising those most in need in our society so when the conservatives get back in power they can cut services for these people even further, making them even more desparate and reliant ever further on charities to survive. Sure there's some cheats but no matter what system you have there will always be some who take advantage. Just like with tax, no matter how low or high it is there will always be those who attempt to avoid paying it. I know plenty of small business owners who don't declare a fair portion of their cash transactions. The conservatives will always have us believe that cheaters are a great burden on society but personally I think you'd be better off putting resources into finding tax cheats than welfare cheats. You'd save much more for the country. And we know that here in Aus at least there really isn't that many people ripping off the welfare system. We haven't become the highest net wealth per capita country in the world because it's a land of bludgers. It's the complete opposite. Not that the conservatives want you ever to think that.

And just countering one of your statements I don't mind paying tax at all. In fact I was outraged when Howard gave people like me a tax cut when he was in power. What the hell did I need a tax cut for? I want the government to provide services for people in our society and I'm happy enough to pay for it. I don't want tax cuts if it means cuts in services. And conservatives always cut services. Then make out they're amazing with managing the budget! It's not hard to balance the budget if you don't spend any money on services for the people.

[hellyer 216]

At what point does someone enter the 'rich' category?

 

 

When they can ski/board anytime they want, wherever they want.

[grungy-gonads 54]

Oh now come on.

[HelperElfMissy 42]

GN, that's where we will agree to have differing opinions.

Saying that all conservatives cut services is like saying all people on the dole are bludgers - it's perpetuating stereotypes that are not always true. I prefer to judge case by case.

 

Snowjunky I would not say that's rich. It is simply being well off enough to be able to prioritize your life appropriately. That $$ figure differs for many people. Some people chase the snow on the bones of their arse living frugally, others take the private jet on a whim. If you can take a private jet, then I'd say you're rich. Or mafia.

[Go Native 70]

Point out one conservative government anywhere in the world in recent decades MB that has not cut spending and services dramatically. If they are not currently in power then they are running on platforms of drastic budget cuts. Many claim they can achieve big cuts without affecting frontline service delivery but I'm sure you're not stupid enough to believe that. Conservative ideology, well at least the modern neo con ideology is all about smaller government. This way they can lower taxes and spending and basically privatise the provision of most services that governments now provide. Everything becomes user pays and driven by profit. Which of course is much more advantageous to the rich than the poor. The rich will benefit far more from tax cuts and they can already afford any services they need. The poor would just need to rely further on charities to help them get by.

[Go Native 70]

For Chriselle

 

[Metabo Oyaji 71]

Point out one conservative government anywhere in the world in recent decades MB that has not cut spending and services dramatically.

 

Jimintou.

[hellyer 216]

[Tubby Beaver 209]

GN, Im with you.....the ONLY thing Conservative do is cut public services. Taking the UK, when this Tory govt came in, they said they were forced to bring in drastic cuts due to the fiscal irregularities of the previous govt......bullshit. If anyone thought they wouldn't make cuts, they are very naive. It's all conservative policy does

[RobBright 35]

GN, Im with you.....the ONLY thing Conservative do is cut public services. Taking the UK, when this Tory govt came in, they said they were forced to bring in drastic cuts due to the fiscal irregularities of the previous govt......bullshit. If anyone thought they wouldn't make cuts, they are very naive. It's all conservative policy does

 

Because Labour were so good at keeping the books balanced weren't they? They created a culture of spend, spend, spend, extending credit available to one and all, and being too lax with benefits.

Someone had to cut the government spending, and whilst the ConDems have gone crazy, in some cases targetting the wrong people, they are at least doing something about it. They should also be cutting government spending on ministers and overseas aid too.

[Tubby Beaver 209]

Did I say that? Nope.....but typical Tory thinking. Labour ballsed up just as much as the previous Tories ballsed up before them....the point being that the excuse the Tories gave for all the cuts, the fiscal foibles of the previous govt (didnt I mention that before?), was bullshit.....they were always going to make cuts.,...that's ALL Tories do......Labour just gave them an easy excuse to hide behind

[Go Native 70]

And the right always blame spending. They never seem to look at revenue. Unlike your typical household the government does have the power to increase it's revenue. Of course the issue there is that increasing taxes is never popular. In fact successive governments on all sides have often decreased taxes or thrown money at middle class welfare (subsidising a whole lot of things) to buy votes. So progressively revenue has fallen whilst costs continue to rise, our populations continue to get older with less and less people paying tax to support the services required by those retitring. It can't just be cut, cut, cut. That ends up destroying services which help maintain some semblance of civil society. Does anyone truly want their country to have the social issues they have in the US? That's what happens when even the Liberals are far to the right. Sure the rich can get stupidly rich but the social issues are out of control. There are some cities in the US that have far more murders than all of Australia. I for one don't want to go down their road but conservatives here would have us do so.

[HelperElfMissy 42]

Really, GN..

 

In Australia, if the major party Left and Right put out their hands they could touch each other they are both so close to center!

It's the outliers who advocate a system like the US, the rest can clearly see its not sustainable.

[RobBright 35]

Did I say that? Nope.....but typical Tory thinking. Labour ballsed up just as much as the previous Tories ballsed up before them....the point being that the excuse the Tories gave for all the cuts, the fiscal foibles of the previous govt (didnt I mention that before?), was bullshit.....they were always going to make cuts.,...that's ALL Tories do......Labour just gave them an easy excuse to hide behind

 

Good job I voted Lib Dem in the last election then, but look where that got the UK. Tories probably always do make cuts, but then in the last elecion, Labour stood on a platform of "no, we won't make cuts", when in fact they had been sitting on a hot bed of ideas on how to make cuts. At least they are trying to prevent cuts in Health and Education.

 

However one thing that is needed, and as noted by GN, is looking at the revenue stream - looking at who pays tax, who doesn't pay enough tax, who pays too much and who pays nothing at all. But also making it fair for all of those involved, a wishful idea, which is unlikely to happen but a start is needed. Noda had the right in Japan by raising the consumption tax, something that has been needed for a long long time. Am I happy that I will be paying 10%? No, of course not, but it makes it fair for all those involved, as I would rather be paying that, than having my income tax increased.

[Go Native 70]

Really, GN..

 

In Australia, if the major party Left and Right put out their hands they could touch each other they are both so close to center!

It's the outliers who advocate a system like the US, the rest can clearly see its not sustainable.

 

Rubbish, the mad monk is crazier than a cut snake and is doing his best to keep his head in ahead of the election. If elected we'll see the real him come out in no time. Virtually all WA media is actively supportive of the conservatives. I doubt you even get to hear half the stuff he gets up to.

[HelperElfMissy 42]

Yeah..coz Aus-wide Internet news is not the media of choice in any case.

And coz I spend all my time following mainstream media stuck in WA, never traveling.

[Go Native 70]

Over 70% of media in Aus is owned by Murdoch. And mining magnates are buying up influence in the rest. No matter where you are it's hard to get news from Aus that isn't skewed to right.