tripler 0 Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 I'm thinking of getting some. But I heard they might be more difficult to put on in powder then regular bindings. As riding pow is what I like to do most, that's a worry. Anyone here got Flows? What do you think? Link to post Share on other sites
HelperElfMissy 42 Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 Young lad had that problem with flows a few years ago - they would pack with snow and then he couldn't get his foot in properly and lock in the highback. However I ride with SP Fastecs, rode in powder at resorts around Hakuba for about a week in January this year where I am pretty sure I didn't see my boots except at the lift on/off and at lunch... it was fine. The Fastecs top strap opens out (not totally up) when you drop the highback making it a much bigger opening - a quick dust off of snow (as you would with strap bindings) and the boot slides in easily, highback up, then clip down the buckle to tighten the top strap. I am always ready to ride before my ratcheting family - but I believe others clip and go whilst still in motion getting off the lift. I am not that clever! The did make getting out of a snow burial a tad more difficult, however. Link to post Share on other sites
tripler 0 Posted September 9, 2011 Author Share Posted September 9, 2011 Thanks MB, I hadn't heard of SP Fastecs. But you're saying even Fastecs are more difficult than regular bindings if you wipe out in deep powder? Is that because they're harder to take off? That's another thing I heard about Flows - they're faster to put on but slower to take off. Link to post Share on other sites
HelperElfMissy 42 Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 Not slower. At the lifts I can undo them on the slide in and then just step out. Fast as. I didn't have a problem in regular knee deep or less - just jump up and off ya go. However I had one situation. Stupid. On an ungroomed piste, but after a silly amount of snow. It was knee to mid thigh and I found I slowed almost to a stop the first time through. Picked a different line that looked steeper for the 2nd run, but I had not factored that it was a lot steeper and there was a windblown area that was a lot deeper. Went from thigh deep to (for want of a better term) 'nip deep' instantly and lost balance. Next thing I know I am on my back, head down slope, board up slope, breathing in wet stuff, can only see white. You need clearance at the back of the bindings to open them - unlock and then push them back and then get the foot out backwards. Can't do that when you are lying on your back or even sitting. First I had to dig up to get air. Made a decent clearance around my face, tried to move my legs and caved the entire thing in again. It took me half an hour to get out. Painstakingly cleared and patted down snow like a crater all around me, especially behind my head so I could flip to my front, reach behind and get the board off. I love my SP Fastecs. But in this situation I can see that regular ratchets could have made a big difference. I regularly recommend my bindings, however you are planning on mostly POW riding...you need to be aware of this. Link to post Share on other sites
Tubby Beaver 209 Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 Tripler I have Flows and I love them, I'm never going back to regular ratchet bindings. In saying that the problems about getting out of them after wiping out in powder are true. They are a little fiddly to get out of as you need to clear the snow from behind them to allow the backplate to come down. Throughout the day snow can build up between your foot and the baseplate but I've found that its quite easily cleared. I think the new models have a baseplate cover that makes it difficult for snow to build up. my ones for some reason have a grid like pattern on them and it makes it easy for snow to stick in there. Link to post Share on other sites
tripler 0 Posted September 9, 2011 Author Share Posted September 9, 2011 Originally Posted By: Mamabear Went from thigh deep to (for want of a better term) 'nip deep' Some natives might be offended by your reference to their diminutive stature, but I think it's spot on! Link to post Share on other sites
HelperElfMissy 42 Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 Originally Posted By: tripler Originally Posted By: Mamabear Went from thigh deep to (for want of a better term) 'nip deep' Some natives might be offended by your reference to their diminutive stature, but I think it's spot on! I was a little more embarrassed about referring to the region of my own boobs in that way! Link to post Share on other sites
Jynxx 4 Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 I think getting out when buried in powder is a major issue. check out the voile binding to get the idea of strapping a plastic tie cord (used for garbage, plants) thru the ratchets so you can grab and release in that event. I find the ratchets to be one of the most important parts on the binding and the bigger and sturdier, the better. I have no problems with crouching. But taking my glove off to ratchet sucks. Whatever the binding, fit your boots and the width of the binding. If the straps (pressure on your feet) are comfortable, there really is no need to go for a system like Flow. I have nothing against them. Just not my choice. Burton ratchets and straps seems to hold up well and comfty. Also the Drake. My drake has big ratchets, feels better than the Rome I ride now. I am now riding one with a Al base and it´s a snug fit. I am a light weight, but still it makes a difference when the binding is made with Al metal. Link to post Share on other sites
Tubby Beaver 209 Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 as you say jynnx its all personal preference. I bought a brand new pair of Burton Cartels 3 years ago and was never happy with them throughout the season......just didn't feel like I was strapped into the board enough for proper control and I developed a dodgy ankle as a result. The next year I stumbled on a mint condition pair of Flows in Hard Off/book Off for 4000 yen while kitting out my mate and I've never looked back, ankle weakness disappeared as well. I am toying with buying a new pair of Flows this year, simply because the new ones are lighter, and are easier to set than my older ones, but I'm never gonna go back to regular ratchet style bindings Link to post Share on other sites
HelperElfMissy 42 Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 I wont rule out ratchets Tubby, but I am in love with the Fastecs, so it would be a big decision. I know that when #2 cub did his instructors training and exams that they were not allowed to ride in flows or other convenience bindings - had to be standard ratchet bindings with the two straps. Saw some bizarre new bindings in Jindy a couple of weeks ago I don't think they would even accept those. I reckon if I did a season in Niseko (as an example) I would switch to ratchets - or at least load ratchets onto my powder board and have the Fastecs on an all mountain board. Link to post Share on other sites
Tubby Beaver 209 Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 I still wouldn't, in fact I'd demand my money back from the instructors......I feel more comfortable in Flows and calling the "convenience bindings" belittles them IMO, like they are a novelty item. They are much comfier (IMO), I no longer get foot cramps while riding, my feet don't go numb and require "rest" during the chairlift and while I have said that they can be fiddly in deep powder, I still think the pros outweigh the cons. Bindings, as much of snow gear, is about personal preference and should be left as such. Of course I've used a lot of ratchet bindings, so I know the comparison, but I ain't going back. Them Ride ones were out last season Link to post Share on other sites
HelperElfMissy 42 Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 Ah.. I hadn't spotted them before - curious style. I am with you on the pluses! I have found the same - quicker, more stable, reliable, super responsive, and the fit is brilliant. No more over tightening when you are nervous. Just saying I wouldn't rule out riding in ratchets if it made sense to. Link to post Share on other sites
Jynxx 4 Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 Originally Posted By: Mamabear Ah.. brilliant. No more over tightening when you are nervous. that´s a good one. BTW, this no-Flow policy with the Kiwi mob is strange ! I read that on their site some time ago. They do park stuff as part of the requisites ... Kiwi sports association is really like.. people who were there before forms an association and lobby for their professional accreditation from the government and sets the rules/standards. Funny, snowsports/skydiving/paragliding is like that in Oz/Kiwi land. Link to post Share on other sites
SantaCruz 0 Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 I have a pair of Flows, they're about 4 or 5 years old now. What I love about them is that once you get the fit dialed in you don't have to mess around with it anymore. And in my experience it's been the snuggest/most firm fit I've ever had from the bindings I've tried. My boot is really locked in. The negatives are the release in powder and deep snow. I've ran across that many times and it's very frustrating. But I think the models now a days have ratchets in addition to the snappable high back. I'd imagine that this should solve that problem. Slightly OT but I just ordered a pair of Burton C60s for $280 USD. I thought this was a great deal until my friend told me that he got them at the end of last season for $140! Crazy deal. Link to post Share on other sites
Tubby Beaver 209 Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 yeah SC, the new models have mini-ratchets on the sleeve so that its easier to get that perfect fit the first time and then you only work with the back plate.......this would also give you the option to pop out that way in powder Link to post Share on other sites
Ezorisu 0 Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 One of the crew who I regularly ride with used to ride Flow bindings over about three model generations. He used to tout the speed getting in and out, but he was still the last one to get moving after getting off the lift, reaching the top of the bootpack, etc. Could all be user-related though. He did have similar "stuck in" issues like Mamabear had. He switched back to strap bindings last season and probably won't go back. He said the strap-style bindings held his boots more firmly against the baseplates so there was a noticable increase in edging ability and board responsiveness. Again, that could still be user related. Link to post Share on other sites
Thundercat 60 Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 I used Flow bindings for about half a season (although they weren't the latest model) and found them to be quite annoying. The stiffness and inflexibility of them made me feel awkward and heavy on my board. I find that bindings with toe caps are much more responsive. I also like the fact that you can adjust ratchet type bindings to different degrees of tightness depending on the terrain or what you want to do. I like to ride really loose in deep powder (next step is a no board for me ) Another point about Flow bindings aside from the deep powder problem has to do with steepness. If you are trying to strap in on a very steep slope the only way you can do it is from you toe edge (it's a LOT more difficult than it sounds!) The novelty of being able to strap in a few seconds faster isn't appealing enough for me to want to try them again. Also, if you are boarding with a bunch of other boarders who don't have the step-in type you end up waiting for them anyway! If you don't want to sit down when you strap in then just learn how to do it standing up! Link to post Share on other sites
Tubby Beaver 209 Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 the newer models are much lighter than the old ones. I find strapping into my toe edge a lot easier than any other way. The new models have mini ratchets on the sleeve that allow you to make quick adjustmenst if you so wish. As u can see its definitely down to user preference, I think they are ace and felt much more in control than when I used toe caps in my Cartels. Horses for courses Link to post Share on other sites
Jynxx 4 Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 Bear in mind it is more about the horse (rider) than the course (binding) imo. Strap in only your front foot and just ride with that ... can be done and I do that a lot on short steep runs going in between lifts. BM is on to something with No Boards - I would like to make mine with straps I can slide my boots in. Link to post Share on other sites
HelperElfMissy 42 Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 I am loving this thread. Seriously. As a lover of the Fastecs I am fascinated and can relate to almost every thing that is being brought up. I LOVE not being the newbie anymore! There is definitely a personal preference thing - I mean moving onto boards some love Rocker and some love Camber but you can take that heaps further - you might like one camber board but hate another... Same with Flows and similar - last years model might be a shocker for your style, but next years might be the ducks nuts. The mini ratchets is an interesting comment - mine (pictured below) have a little lever that if I had opened it, could have slid the strap straight out. I NEVER EVEN THOUGHT about it. Tubby, you MAY have just bought me a couple of minutes next time I wipe out in powder (thanks!) BM: Steepness was an issue for me initially - mainly due to inexperience. Normally it is not a real issue now - unless it is steep AND icy. I got caught last year at Thredbo, it wasn't particularly steep, but it wasn't flat either (except in a high traffic spot - which I am too considerate to block), there were very strong winds so every time I got a balance point it would blow hard and I would slip again. I hugged a skinny tree and did it up in the end But since then I have specifically taught myself how to get the right fit from my knees - it is awkward, but certainly doable, and just as quick as ratchets. Jynxx: Are you saying it is a NZ specific thing that SB Instructors use ratchet bindings rather than flows/fastecs/step ins? I thought it was all about being able to ride with your back foot resting on the undone binding so you can step out and help the student at any time. The highback would get in the way if I did that - although I could just fold the highback in and put the back foot on the stomp pad like I do every other time I slide with my back foot free... Link to post Share on other sites
panhead_pete 27 Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 A minor highjack but who has bindings they love. Broke another Burton strap last season and am over it... Link to post Share on other sites
HelperElfMissy 42 Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 Originally Posted By: panhead_pete A minor highjack but who has bindings they love. Broke another Burton strap last season and am over it... PB bought a pair of Burton CO2s and they broke in days - we were dark! But he ended up buying another pair the same, and they have been awesome. We never complained to Burton or took them back as it was just too much bother, they were bought in Tokyo, we live in Perth, we were flying directly home from Hokkaido etc. However, I had a problem with not having some board specific base plates for PBs Aura (Burton). I contacted Burton directly and they were amazing. Sourced me a set and sent them out free of charge. I recommend contacting them. Link to post Share on other sites
Jynxx 4 Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 Interesting about Burton straps breaking. They have the R&D and knowledge of straps and ratchets. Spark (splitboard binding) has started using Burton for their straps. Yeah, Mamabear. The biggest difference between European snowboard instructors and others are that the Europeans are accredited as real teachers - Federal accreditation not industry accreditation. Swiss has an interesting system. If I remember correctly, you have to do 2 out of 3 disiplines (Freeride, Hardboot racing, Park) to be able to take up instructor course. Link to post Share on other sites
Tubby Beaver 209 Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 Jynnx I wasn't being literal with the "Horses for courses" thing Link to post Share on other sites
mitchpee 10 Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 I have a buddy that rode for Flow. I also deal with their bindings on a daily basis. They are definitely a bit more fragile than the other companies out there. They are great for when you need them but they will usually break. They are pretty cheap as well so if you can justify using them for a short period it will be good to have them. If not, I would probably steer clear. Link to post Share on other sites
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