Big 3 - Niseko, Hakuba and Shiga Kogen

[panhead_pete 27]

Well over just under a month I hit the big 3 resorts, those being Niseko, Hakuba and Shiga Kogen.

 

Below are my thoughts on all 3. There isn’t any pics as there has been 1000’s before me, just more random thoughts and memories as having had just 3 alcohol free days in 30 days of travel things aren't quite as “focused†as they could be.

 

Niseko – “The Good, the bad, The Ugly†(Insert the theme music)

 

The Good

• Stayed at Pension Kanon which was run by Mario-san and is centrally located. Room was rather basic but more than adequate. Toilets were downstairs but a large mouthed bottle solved the need for a trek mid night. Breakfast was filling and he hooked me up with discount lift tickets. Would happily stay there again if on a budget and by myself.

• The snow was AWESOME for the large part. Fresh tracks 4 out of 6 mornings. One cracker of a day. Won’t bore you with runs etc but the best natural ½ pipe I have ever been in is somewhere there. BUT see “bad†about tracking.

• The all mountain pass is a cracker.

• The all you can eat buffet on piste was great after an awesome morning but you don’t feel like doing anything after it except having a long nap in the corner. Red Bull is your friend.

• Friendly people everywhere and all could speak English as nearly none were Japanese (See Bad section as well). The pub had a good feed and Sapporo on tap. Everything you could possibly need seemed to be available.

 

The Bad

• Without in-depth local knowledge most if not all safe and accessible places are tracked to death by lunch time, if not before. Still found a couple stashes but the traffic, even through the gates is heavy, everyone thinks they are Jeremy Jones. Always on 1st 10 or so cars on the Gondy.

• Most places aren’t ski in/out as some folks make out it out to be with most folks catching a shuttle. This didn’t bother me as was centrally located and the 15min walk up the hill was a great warm up although others struggled.

• It isn’t steep and unlike other places I never felt completely out of my depth due to slope angle etc. Maybe a good thing

• Lots of flat areas where you need to push or walk

• It is NOT Japan so to speak which has advantages and disadvantages. Forget any kind of cultural experience unless you travel.

 

The Ugly

• Yobo Aussies, fighting, bleeding all through the lodge, generally being disrespectful cockheads. Screaming out to each other on the lifts, cutting lift lines etc etc etc.

• The place was quite crowded but that’s expected for mid Feb. Some big lines at the Gondy, unlike I had seen before in Hakuba. Aussies snaking the line was a prob and it almost kicked off one morn whilst we waited for the Gondy.

 

Summary

Its Kuta with a touch of Seminyak thrown in. Been there, wont be back but would love to see more of Hokkaido.

 

Hakuba – Paradise (mid) lost

Stayed at the White Horse in Echoland which is a great place to hang as close to bars, restaurants etc. Always have one huge night in 902 and didn’t miss out on that. Room was really comfortable, communal showers but toilet etc in your own room, which was probably a tad close to the bar and my tab suffered ïŠ. Breakfast was nice each day and TJ and his crew dropped us off each morning and collected us when we were done. Have stayed there 3 times previously and would again. Mid level price wise but great value for money.

 

The snow was predominantly Spring Like conditions except one day when it had snowed up top. I rode off a cat track at Happo and got stuck at a dam and have a not so nice time getting out which made me realize that riding alone and into uncertain country, even on-piste isn’t all that smart.

 

The next day a couple of the guys staying with us went BC with a guide and got to watch another person trigger an avie and go with it a distance. One of them was REALLY shaken.

Rest of the trip was riding the slush at Imori and drinking coronas in the afternoon at 47. Both really enjoyable and certainly got more competent on small kickers, boxes etc but I will NEVER be Shuan White. Its my 3rd trip there and I’m yet to really score it except one day at 47 in Jan when I was on the wrong board and one day last year when I struggled in the pow at Cortina.

 

Summary

Its like a coastal country town in Aus, say Byron, with a mix of locals and tourists although we did see some of the yobo element just as you might there. It will start to suffer Nisekoitis as more and more cheap packages into it are sold but it’s a solid place to take a family or go as a single person and enjoy. Will be back again

 

Shiga Kogen

Im not writing anything about this place as I don’t want any more people there.

 

[griller 9]

Nice.

 

The Shiga Kogen teaser will just make people more curious!

 

And there does need to be one or two images to brighten it up

[panhead_pete 27]

I just meant its terrible and would hate to see any one have a bad time

[iiyamadude 6]

Shiga Kogen being a great place is hardly a secret.

[ippy 66]

i kinda er, didnt like it all that much to be honest On day 1 i thought "if im back in this area next year i reckon ill just get my season pass here", but by day 2 and by the time you kind of cut off all the really lame stuff (sun valley, most of the skier only areas and pretty much that entire side of the resort in fact since (aside shibutoge and a lift run), the rest of it was kinda flat or skier only), i was thinking "theres probably more i want to ride in myoko or hakuba in truth".

 

Really its only that area around nishi/higashidateyama/giant and Yakebitaiyama thats honestly worth playing on (well, for a snowboarder). Ichinose and takamagahara honestly werent that interesting and the top part was fun but only because of the powder. If i had someone showing me the proper off piste lines instead of just hitting up the pow at the sides or under lifts it might be different, but honestly it wasnt *that* out of this world for me.

 

Though i did like the monkeys stomping all over everyones car

 

Compared to maybe basing yourself in hakuba for example its pretty much not that big a deal in truth for me. In fact if theres a hakuba season pass that lets you ride any of the resorts for about the same price, id probably take that instead and just base myself somewhere around happo. Sure, i detest tsugaike, and obvioulsy they arent all connected in any way, but each of them individually have well over a day of interest which is a bit more than i can say about shigakogen. (with the obvious exception of yakebi and what looks like some fun lines round the back of okushigakogen)

 

ETA: I was actually contemplating doing a thread on places to base yourself (that is places with easy access to nice facilities and lots of resorts), but thought better of it, but this thread might have given me a reminder that it should be done

 

 

[Tex 3]

Damn that sux! The only people I saw jumping que were not Aussies, Chinese was my guess. Why we giving such a bad name to the place? I think I saw more Kiwis than Aussies last visit and even having been out nearly every night, I am yet to see ANY bad behaviour. For a small country (population wise) we sure do make an impact:

Japan

Canada

London

Bali

Greek Isles

Germany

 

All these tourist destinations complain about too many Aussies

[ippy 66]

Actually, heres a quick run down in pure numbers (and sentences) of the good... and the wastes of time in shiga kogen based entirely on one and a half days (well, really two but half of it was whiteout) of riding it.

 

Yakebitaiyama (yakebi, okushiga, ichi diamond):

 

6/10 as a stand alone resort. It has great lines, some really fun little tree'd up ridge lines to get lost in, and would definitely kill a day or so without much bother. But even compared to goryu, it feels a bit short and uninspiring. Top to bottom in about 7-10 minutes without too much variation. Lots of big wide runs, a few steeps, and a couple of paths, but nowt all that amazing in itself unless you leave the groomers (where it then starts getting a bit more interesting).

 

It would definitely be MUCH better if theyd just open up the entire bloody mountain to us yobos, but what can you do? A bit of management and you could have a nice advanced valley/tree run between the two by the looks of it, not to mention a few clean faces lurking round the back if my view from terakoya was anything to go by which would definitely help liven up the feel of the place and make it feel a bit more varied (a few less ropes might be nice too). The groomers are a bit bleh, but in a normal powder drop (i arrived at the end of the powder in er, february) im pretty sure theyd be nice and lively. 10/10 though as part of shiga kogen since it pretty much pays for the ticket on its own.

 

Ichinose Mammoth Area (Ichinose family, tannenomori, takamagahara):

 

If this was just one mountain it'd be somewhere in the region of 3/10. Definitely not worth the trip on its own. The two bigger areas (takamagahara and ichinose) were both surprisingly weak comprsing of a few (realistically) red runs going straight to the bottom. Aside the monkeys at the base of takamagahara theres nothing really worth bringing up about either of them in truth.

 

Surprisingly though, the one place i really liked was the tiny little spot between them at tannenomori. I mean its nothing special. Its relatively flat, pretty much green runs all the way, but its just those trees dotted all over it (as you might expect) that made it quite a gentle and peaceful vibe for a nice little cruise.

 

Its also nice crossing between the three resorts through the trees i guess. But overall the one redeeming fact about this area is that its absolutely central to EVERYTHING else. Its the little hook up area so only for that does it get a 7/10 if youre hitting the entire resort (for riding though id honestly go somewhere else if i was pushed for time).

 

Terakoya:

 

I could have added this into either the previous section or the next one, but i felt it needed its own little part. It's tiny and almost doesn't warrant a mention were it not for the following: the powder on the side facing okushiga is STUNNINGLY good, in fact its the highest quality snow i found in the entire resort; the area is genuinely atmospheric and almost feels like a little plateau cut off from the rest of the mountain; and its surprisingly quiet and a lot of fun for an afternoon with very little defined boundaries between the piste and the offpiste. It definitely doesn't hold up on its own just because its three lifts all arriving in roughly the same spot (not much downhill so to speak) so there's really no point in scoring it (as if there's a point of scoring any of these places on their own mind you :?). But as a fun little calm and tranquil break with your head in the clouds this place was simply fantastic. Lots of powder, and some fun little tree lines gave it just that little something else. 9/10 then in the context of the whole resort.

 

Olympic Course Area (higashitateyama, nishidateyama, bunadaira and giant):

 

Definitely a fantastic fun area of shiga kogen. Probably somewhere in the region 6/10 on its own (though combined with the rest of the mountain (terakoya and the ichinose side) - 8/10).

 

The ride here is pretty gnarly, with some great charging terrain. Hitting the course top to bottom, i defy anyone to do it without speed checking those paths that cut across it. You will be flying. The olympic course was without a doubt my favourite on piste run in the entire resort, and was arguably the only groomer i hit more than once (indeed i hit it several times, and tried again the next day in a whiteout (twice) because i enjoyed it so much. The line is meant for opening up and ripping, and well thats what i like to do so it suited me down to the ground. Hell, i even enjoyed the mogul minefields scattered about it.

 

Nishidateyama would have also been on a par were it not for that gigantic mogul field at the very top. Its a pity because that steep would definitely kick start a fantastic little bomber run. As it is, you either track the mellower skiers right side, or accept that about 1/3rd of the run is going to be slow and a bit annoying by ducking in and out of the trees or running those moguls. That being said though, some great fast terrain and big open lines really let you throw caution to the wind and just charge that hill so you can't complain too much because of a few moguls. Definitely a nice complement to the longer olympic course.

 

Finally theres Giant. On the first day i thought "oh its just a red run big wide ice wall"... and really my opinion hasnt changed. But on the second day i noticed this little pow field just to the right side as you come up on the lift. Indeed, it was whiteout, the second day was sucking, and i was just about to call it a day when i noticed it. Two hours later i was riding the last lift before they shut it down. Good fun. We are really just talking a powder stash here rather than anything technically difficult, so dont misunderstand. But it was fun and capped a kind of okay day. I really mention it just because it added an extra little dimension to giant that makes it worth having a trek up there if riding a dull, wide, straight, relatively steepish standard red run ice wall isn't entirely your cup of tea.

 

Overall i didnt really explore all that much in the trees in either of these areas but their piste managed to hold my attention, so its a definite must do part of the mountain and as such has to be 10/10 as part of the whole area.

 

Hasuike/sun valley area:

 

Sorry dudes, i didnt hit this (well aside the very very convenient information center/bus stop back to yudanaka). Even when faced with a choice of hitting this or going home, i was getting the bus home. I saw it coming past on the bus and it looked pretty much featureless, short and a gigantic waste of time. This was confirmed chatting to a dude at the info centre at the end of the first day. I might as well throw in kidoike into the mix as another place that i didnt bother getting off the bus to go see.

 

So that leaves one more area:

 

Yokoteyama (shibutoge, yokote, kumanoyu):

 

What the hell can i say about this area? I spent the morning up here on my second day and ill be honest, even though shibutoge was the wilds of shigakogen (a storm was raging up there) and even though the snow monsters were stunning, and even though the powder seemed to be everywhere, i couldnt see 5 feet in front of me, and it genuinely felt pretty damn small. If it was easier to access, maybe it might be worth the trek, but that bus ride out there is pretty hefty, and the return buses as i found out, arent exactly regular. So er, not entirely worth the effort just for a bit of pow. So how about the rest of the mountain?

 

kumanoyu: skip that, I couldnt ride it.

 

So that leaves yokote itself. Well first things first, the bottom half of yokote utterly blows being INCREDIBLY flat and open. So with shibutoge, thats about 2/3rds covered, what about that last third? Well again, most of that is skier only (theres a green path they let snowboarders on but the red and black runs had those big green flags saying no snowboarders) and though i could have probably ridden it being that it was a quiet low visibility weekday, but in truth it didnt look any more appealing than 100 other piste runs, so why bother pissing people off for the sake of it? Let the skiers have their runs! Instead i played under the lifts and had a blast. The powder was nice, the lines were fresh, and the terrain was bouncy like every good lift run should be. It made that side of the mountain pretty fun if im honest and almost worth the bus ride.

 

Overall though, since the bus stops at suzurikawa, and the lifts are slooooooooooooow getting you to the top, and since about 80% of the area worth riding is skier only, honestly unless its a relatively clear day and i can catch a nice view from the top (and happen to have my own wheels) its pretty unlikely id be back there. From a pure snowboarding point of view this place really is bakabeyond and on its own anyway as its completely cut off from the rest of the resort. And as such its getting a 4/10 (and 2 of those points were for the lift run).

Oh, saying that though, because theyve closed Maeyama it looks like a nice place for some fresh lines if you know where to cut across. I dont, so it kinda sucks seeing this empty face with only one little adventurous line riding through it, but yeah, at least theres one place for some fresh lines for the truly adventurous out there.

 

Overall and why i cant quite decide about shiga kogen

 

Right, off the bat Shiga kogen kicks the living crap out of Happo1, suginohara, or nozawa. Its got LOADS and LOADS to do. You will NEVER be bored if youre there for a week or so. Theres lots of little places to explore and theres just so many ways that you can instantly change the vibe of your ride. So if youre comparing it to a single resort then honestly its oranges and apples here. Nothing comes close to being as interesting or as fun to just dot about and hit up new lines.

 

Any resort that can give you a bombing run like the olympic course alongside tree runs like you can ninja at yakebi, alongside little fun powder lands like you get at shibutoge and terakoya has to have a bucket load going for it. And recall that this is off one and a half days of exploring. Theres likely STACKS more to discover, not to mention all the little family areas dotted about the three mountains. All in all the place is genuinely incredible, and that one side of it is really well linked up just makes the ticket price phenomenally good value. Naturally if you ski, its even BETTER. But i dont so blow it out you ass two plankers.

 

So yeah, comparing shiga to nozawa or to happo or to suginohara it comes out on top by quite some way.

 

Compared on the other hand to Myoko or Hakuba and it starts to feel less incredible. And heres my issue. I cant honestly decide if this is a fair comparison given that shiga has gone to some obvious lengths to unite the three mountains through its transport system and lift/run placements as well as offering a ticket that lets you ride the whole lot of it. It feels like im being unrealistic and unnecessarily harsh on it simply because when i think of myoko in the same sense i think of suginohara, akakan, ikenotaira, and akakura onsen (and maybe even seki). Likewise when i think of hakuba i think of goryu/47, happo, iwatake, tsugaike, and cortina. In that context theres honestly no reason on earth id rather ride shiga kogen than ride those areas (well, aside the longer season maybe).

 

But then i think about akakan and akakura onsen and realise that these places are idiots unto themselves. If two resorts sitting right next to each other and indeed with paths crossing in and out of one another cant even offer a ticket that lets you ride them both without having to buy some BS myoko big four pass or whatever it is, then how can i legitimately and fairly compare shiga kogen to this ridiculous farce?

 

Hell, has hakuba even got a ticket yet where you can go to a different resort anytime, or are they still doing that 1 day pass premium crap? Can you buy the myoko all mountain pass without having to go to akakura to do it yet? Hows about the buses since they would have to take the strain of a lack of lift connections? Myoko to my knowledge has 1 bus to suginohara a DAY. ONE BUS! This comparison is seeming more ludicrous by the second.

 

Shiga (and hell, we might as well also mention Niseko), really do show how it should be done, and its a complete joke that the rest of them are yet to even try and find a way of catching up.

 

I'm genuinely quite torn and cant tell how i should judge this place if I'm honest. On the one hand, its miles ahead of almost every resort out there simply in terms of scale, but then again its some pretty soft terrain that i probably wouldn't go out of my way to ride. Indeed, echoing the point above on day 1 i genuinely thought if i come back to live in nagano im buying my season pass for here. But by day 2 i realised id rather just have the myoko big 4 pass in all sincerity. Its horizontally epic, but vertically it definitely feels a bit small potatoes. Its better for sheer variety and having entire areas with their own unique feeling (whereas in most resorts these would just be single runs). But then again, the terrain objectively feels kinda short, mellow, and often a bit on the dull side...

 

Its a bit of a conundrum for me if im honest. I want to say its amazing, because it honestly is. But then again, it also isn't being that the terrain feels a little less interesting than even the lines from the top of goryu to the base of 47 (and thats hardly hakuba's crown jewel right there! Thats just one good run in amongst a whole area filled with good runs).

 

If i was to judge shiga as 19 individual resorts and compare it to hakubas 6 or 7 and myokos 6, well its not holding up and so it shouldnt. The terrain around hakuba is some of the very best in Japan, and the powder as well as the vibes of each of the different resorts around myoko is phenomenal. But genuinely this feels completely off base. Shiga links everything beautifully and goes out of its way to make sure you can get where you need to go, so in effect its ONE RESORT (well, maybe two) and as such should be judged accordingly. And if thats the case, this place is HUGE and off the hook! Its worth a LOT of your time and you need to get your ass here pretty much!

[ippy 66]

by quick, i obviously mean massive

[Tubby Beaver 209]

I'm surprised you think its pretty soft terrain, by my eyes its some of the biggest shit in Japan. Altitude is high, area is expansive, snow is awesome........what are you looking for?

[ippy 66]

i dunno man, it just felt a bit dull for me. There wasnt anything all that challenging and i just felt like it was top to bottom and back again. And even then, aside the olympic course part, nothing felt particularly long (and even that didnt feel all that long). I think a run that definitely feels like ballpark is the ryuoo run. Thats great fun. I also have a really hazy memory of running the happo downhill course and loving how quickly the terrain would just switch out. Even on a mediocre run like the top fo goryu down to the base of 47 feels way more varied. And hell, if you dont go R1 you even get some pretty tough parts to ride if i recall. Ideally id love runs like ryuoo though, or even runs like the one out of gate 2 at niseko when you ride over the first ridge. Furano had a nice run too on the furano side if i remember which i also enjoyed. Hell, even moiwa had a run that i felt was a little difficult for me to negotiate. Shiga didnt really have anything really like that from what i hit. It felt horizontally epic if you will, but vertically it just felt a little dull. Its not necessarily to say its not steep or anything, but simply that it didnt feel challenging or particularly technical in the same way some other runs have felt. And truth is, id expect something epic to come from such a big resort area.

[Tubby Beaver 209]

It just shows how peoples opinions/expectations from a resort are different eh If we are talking psted runs then I'd rather have wide, long gentler runs than north face of the eiger sheer drops, but to be honest the big thing for me is the quality of the snow. It could be a pretty short run mountain but if it has oodles of uber pow then I'll rate it higher than a day on ahigher mountain with groomed shit (like I had at GALA the 2nd week of Jan it was pow heaven) Horses for courses I guess and picking out what days suit yer riding.

 

BTW Ippy.....are you an Aberdeen follower?

[ippy 66]

i WISH there was soft nice pow. I had pretty poor luck this year. Came for 27 days in the first trip and then after a two week or so gap, came back for another 11 days. Id say i got about 10 fluffy days (maybe one or two days of serious dumping at niseko), about 5 days of post dump tracking, and the rest was a mix of ice/crud or slush.

 

Shiga was about a week and a half either side of the snow, so the conditions were way less than ideal. Im sure the place is utterly different when its off the hook and swimming in pow, but i didnt get the pleasure unfortunately. which kinda brings me to the altitude point. Even that didnt help it. When you did venture off the beaten path and find plenty of deep snow, more often than not it was heavy wet snow. Only really in two places did i find anything approaching the definition of pow (under the lift at yokote and on the skiers right side of terakoya (teh left side was the same wet snow as everywhere else). And dont get me wrong, its not about gradient here at all, its more about the fun of technical riding than just pointing the board down the hill and seeing how few turns you can make

I like a run that keeps pulling the rug out from under me, but shiga kinda felt the opposite (like if i started this run, id pretty much follow it in much the same way right to the end), and that makes it feel a little humdrum.

 

Still, if you look at a map of the area, i dare say theres a LOT of terrain that could be worth exploring. But maybe thats about 5 or 6 years away from my current level and abilities to even contemplate unfortunately. Maybe its a place worth revisiting in a fair few years with a bit more back country experience behind me

[Mick Rich 78]

All very interesting guys! Looks like I might have to add Shiga to my list of places to visit next year!!

[dyna8800 3]

Panhead Pete and ippy, great stuff.

 

That natural halfpipe is located in the Higashiyama, er, Niseko Village area, it is basically a ravine...one of my favorite runs on the mountain.

[Tubby Beaver 209]

fair enough Ipps.....posting while drunk should come with a health warning!! I totally forgot I was on here last night just before bed! So forgive the rubbish I was talking!

[ippy 66]

i dont think disagreeing with me constitutes 'rubbish' mate.

And you were hardly saying anything outlandish there.

 

Ive also edited my conclusion because ive realised it has to be judged as one resort and not 19 resorts vis a vis hakubas 7 and myokos 6. In that case it kicks ass and thats all there is to it!

[joshnii 2]

Good read that lot, cheers.

[hellyer 216]

Ippy, Tubs, you are right - Niseko is just Bali on Ice and Shiga is shite - I was at SK 4 weeks ago and it was just so crowded everyday.

And sooo dangerous also.....I had powder burns around my waist!

 

Don't go there anybody