Ippy's Guide to Buying a new snowboard

[ippy 66]

haha, dude, you can go with whatever deck you like, its a guide to help you make sure you are choosing it for the right reasons is all. If you want to bomb nice big lines then you just got the board you want Dont you worry about a thing. I mean er, oh no, that just wont do. that deck will absolutely destroy you! youll be lucky if you make it off the mountain in one piece. Tell you what, ill never forgive myself, so ill take it off your hands for $50 and you can go buy something a little safer

[Jynxx 4]

Grazza, thatz one long stick. Gonna bomb Alaska?

I would have preferred 164 for myself, but a bit of a jump for my missus coming from 151. We weigh 60 kg.

Hoping that V tail will work...

Currently mine is 157.

Just waiting for that extra 30cm overnight...

[grazza 2]

I'm a bit bigger than you Jynxx. 92kgs at last weigh in, so hopefully I'll have enough bulk to push it around. But no, Alaska ain't on the menu at all. Just some nice Hokkaido pow. Too much? I suppose I can always go back to the current stick if needed, but I'm hoping that it will take me to the next level. We'll see.

[Jynxx 4]

Nah. I reckon it´s the right size for you.

No worries waist deep, and no stopping on the flats.

[seefarr 0]

Originally Posted By: Jynxx

Thanks David

The new board is a 2008 and discontinued model.
(Got it from Amazon. Was 475-) For the price I paid. it must be the cheapest powder board around. And the last one.
Would do well in my local area...

Hi Guys,
I joined up just to thank Jynxx for posting up that bargain on the Atomic - yours wasn't the last one at 160 - mine was! Can't wait for it to arrive now. I've got it for my 3 week trip to Myoko Kogen in Feb. I'm mildly concerned that it might be a bit short for me in powder (I'm 77kg) but I guess the V-tail will help a lot with that. I was also looking at the Jones Hovercraft but I actually think the Atomic might be more usable.
And ippy, this thread is absolutely epic. I really needed a proper resource like this when I bought my first board. It would be great to see it stickied when it's done.
Cheers guys,
Chris

[Jynxx 4]

My pleasure, Seefar, glad to hear that you scored that deal.

And welcome to the forum, I hope you stick around.

I agree with you about comparing with the Hovercraft, the Atomic being more usable in all (big)mountain situation (1 degree base and 2 degree side bevel and long effective edge)

The core material and construction sure beats the Hovercraft. And I don´t have big feet so I don´t want a too wide board.

Where are the Jones boards here in EU anyways? Has the boat being pirated? (coming from Tunisia)

Man, since the Radon doesn´t come in 161, it´s a difficult choice. Negotiating the bumpy piste on a 164 is not fun, so it is a compromise.

I heard its a fast board so that will add to the float. Will see ...

[ippy 66]

ill try and get it finished, but i reckon ill have to restart the thread and obviously make sure my alterations from my first edit will carry over to here. Might try and sort it soonish though, i reckon ive had almost enough time without never looking at it again Not quite though, i still think i need about another month

[seefarr 0]

You can get the Jones boards at a few places in the UK but I've only seen the hovercraft at The Snowboard Asylum (which I think is part of Ellis Brigham). It's selling for £360, so about twice the price we got that Atomic for!

 

BUT, I do think the hovercraft is filling a niche that is being ignored - it's a very well-priced dedicated powder board. You may not get to ride powder that often (if you don't live on snow) so you don't want to spend too much on one do you really need all the latest tech on a powder board anyway? In my mind (and this is only in my mind 'cos I've never actually ridden one) you want a powder stick to float with ease and heighten the surfing feeling that you get in deep snow. I'm no Mr. Rice, so I'm not going to be landing switch in the back country, so it needn't be bi-directional!

 

Cheers!

[Jynxx 4]

Yeah, I agree.

I reckon a lot of people are riding boards that´s smaller for their size. If you wanna do things off the moguls that´s fine. So when these boards people are riding are 151 in size, a board sold as powder board around 156 size defo is a niche and attractive.

But then, you can get a longer board and here is when things gets a bit confusing ... we have more choices, but it seems to me that you can go the powder dedicated board or the big mountain board. And that means long boards, 164-170 for big mountain and 170-200 for powder.

For powder specific, we can go pin or swallow tail. For me, a longer big mountain board with a soft nose and nose rocker will be fine for pow. I suppose the swallowtails will be in the world of its own feel.

It´s finding that not too long and not too short that handles powder and hard pack, ice, tree runs and everything ... woops

Meaning, for me, fast board. Softer in the nose and not too wide. Not narrow in the waist. Stiff board and gets stiffest in the tail. Good edge grip.

Hey by the way, did you get yourself stiff bindings for the Radon?

[seefarr 0]

Originally Posted By: Jynxx

Hey by the way, did you get yourself stiff bindings for the Radon?

Nope - I've got Salomon Relays that are super comfy (and some Flows that I don't ride any more). Why do you want stiffer bindings?
Cheers.

[Jynxx 4]

After going longer in board size, from 151 to 157 in my case, I find:

a) I´m going faster cos the board is more stable.

I´m using edge to edge transitions.

c) Whatever happens under the board that the board does not absorb, it feels stronger in force.

d) I can feel more slack in my boot-binding.

This is not a bad thing in the beginning. It´s telling me that I´m not on to it and the board is riding me and I´m just balancing on it. The flex in the boot/binding is acting like a shock absorber.

It also means that whatever you are doing on the board does not effectively transfer to the board. Again, means the board will tolerate you a bit when you are not "on the ball", so to speak.

But sooner or later we realize that there is more potential to the board we are riding. And that means precision - you want a zippy reaction from the board.

Take me for example, dumb me, I had an extra 4.5cm I could move my binding to the tail and I didn´t realize I had set it up that way.

Try moving your waist to the right (if you are regular stance) to shift your weight to the right leg. Even as little as that, you can feel it in you back leg. That´s back leg burn, baby!

So, when I want to shift my weight to my forward/rear leg, I want that to transfer to the board with minimum loss. Same goes with (. In case of © I want to counter effectively, no bucking horse, - that means stiff binding/boots.

[iiyamadude 6]

And I thought snowboarding looked so simple.....

[Jynxx 4]

The new (but discontinued ´08) Atomic Radon CT arrived today, yay!

Thought I´d post the all interesting V cut in the tail, named CT (camel toe) tech..

 

 

excuse my grubby fingers !

My first impression of the board was, It´s slightly wider than my Salomon burner. The nose is soft. Stiff in the middle and the tail feels soft due to the V. It seems like it has a lot of camber. It would be a great board if it were to have a nose rocker (S-camber)

My Salomon burner ´08 is way stiffer. Identical setback.

Comparing with some other boards on the 2D perspective,

 

Prior Kyber 160

nose width 30.9

waist 25.5

effective edge 118.3

 

Burton Malolo 158

nose width 30.4

waist 25.4

effective edge 120.7

 

Atomic Radon 159

nose width 29.7

waist 25.3

effective edge 127.6

 

Jones Flagship 161

nose width 29.2

waist 25.2

effective edge ?

 

I have omitted the tail width and all that, but the waist width are all identical and the nose are wider than normal freeride boards.

My Radon is about 15mm wider than my Salomon burner. So I can see that Kyber has a wide nose.

So how wide does the nose have to be to be a powstick? I have no idea and probably that is not the way to look at things.

This probably deserves a new thread, but let me continue...

If you are a 172cm 60 kg person, looking at a board in the mid 160s, it seems like a long board. Considering a board in the 170 sounds like a big jump. But if you are 180cm 80Kg, 160s range is a normal length and it might be quite natural to look at longer powder dedicated sticks at 170-200.

I am beginning to get the impression that Powder means a lot of things. How deep is it? Is it a tree run? I also get the impression that a true deep powder, waist deep may require something in the mid 170 range whatever your size.

So from that point of view, I suggest there are...

(1) Pure powder boards - swallow or pin tail over 170cm to 2m

(2) Powder orientated (freeride)boards 157-161

(3) Big mountain freeride boards - over 164

 

So, the Kyber, Malolo, Radon, Burner probably fall into the (2) and a bit of (3) category. depending on how much (3) situation it can take.

[HelperElfMissy 42]

Camel Toe

[Jynxx 4]

Originally Posted By: Mamabear

Camel Toe

yeah, I know htf would Atomic expect that to stick I have no idea.

Anyways, adding to my thoughts is the stance width issue.
I had spent the first week of my boarding adjusting and experimenting with my stance, and I have a wide(?) 20.5 inch stance width. I have set this new Radon 159 for my missus, and she has 18.5.
What I notice is that not only she has a longer nose on the board (obviously), but also her centre of weight distribution (middle of the distance between left and right foot) is more to the tail of the board. This is comparing to setting the binding under my preference.
Comparing the Rome Vinyl 151 (which she rides) and the Radon 159, The distance from the rear binding to the tail is identical. The nose is a lot longer. This board is giving her a longer nosed, wider board. She is convinced (before even riding) that she has her new powder board! And that this is plenty long enough for her. (note: the new Vinyls are twin boards and different to ours which is directional with setback)

Serreche has a great gear report on the RadAir Tanker, about his experience on stance width. I suggest to all boarders new and experienced to read it.

For me, I can easily go 164 to get that kind of configuration my missus has under the Radon 159

[Jynxx 4]

Here´s what he says ...

 

Originally Posted By: Serreche

2007/01 update: In my original review I had stated that I had to put a bit of huumpf when turning backside and had lost an edge on occasions when I was riding it too agressively. I had also stated that I was going to play around with my stance to see how behaviour would improve. On my original set-up I had the narrower stance available (that's how I had been riding for year on my other smaller boards) and was decided to slowly move my back-leg one notch at a time and see how it would go. So I moved one notch further back for the hind leg and tested it out as a first step... and oh behold, that baby has been turning on a dime ever since both frontside & backside, and I have not lost an edge ever since on backside turns. I could not believe how a small stance adjustment made such a huge difference in terms of maneuverability! Big thumbs up for the board, and I guess that rectifies the few negative comments I had. After very recently trashing my beloved canyon 168 beyond recognition (long story) I had been thinking about getting a fat upper 170cm Elan board to ride more on groomer as well as have some good off-piste capabilities, but given how this board handles now on-piste not to mention in powder with its fat nose and 187cm, I think I will be using it as an all around board. I am sure it would make a great carver with a couple of plates on as well (for those who are into the stuff). Anyway, great board, I will keep my rating at 9 stars 'cos I do not believe in perfection ;\) The moral of the story is that I should have been all the wiser with regards to my stance when going from a 168 to a 187. Alhtough the stance move is pretty conventional when going to a big board, I had assumed (wrongly) that with enough experience I could still manage a powder board on groomer with the same old stance.

[Jake42393 0]

hey ippy, good stuff you've posted.

i bought a bataleon airobic this summer + im pretty excited about it.

im just wondering if you think its necessary to detune my edges at all.

im planning on progressing in park + jumps a lot this year. so that's my focus.

oh and of course buttering and just messing around

[ippy 66]

I never bevel. But then again, i dont give a crap about rails.

 

Reason to detune = nicks in rails. If your edge cacthes a nick in a rails, youre flying. Thats really the main reason behind it. A secondary reason is to stop the board being too twitchy. You can of course throw in a degree bevel on your edge and soften up a super sharp twitchy edge to make it feel a little less fiesty.

 

Reason not to detune = youre pretty much deciding there and then to wreck your edge Its reversible, but itll never be as good (or so ive been led to believe). Second, you lose your edge grip obviously. Youre basically deciding whether you want a looser slower deck which is probably going to wash on you a lot, or a sharper, more responsive but twitchier deck.

 

BUT

 

Then theres bataleon.

 

The point of TBT is precisely that your edges keep out of the picture until you want them. So theoretically theyll be raised anyway when you hit a rail. Since its effectively their rail deck, i cant imagine that it would come tuned already for locking in catch free. Unless youre finding yourself hitting nicks routinely, i really wouldnt touch your edges.

 

Ride it, get a feel for it, then once you think youve a genuine understanding it, start tinkering with it, but in my opinion its like adding salt to a meal... you should taste it first and find out if you actually need it

[panhead_pete 27]

Originally Posted By: Tubby Beaver

BUT the Battaleon Riot only top out at 159.....which s the thing that's making me lean more for the Jam which tops out at 164 (although I reckon that I'd get the 161 wide if I buy it)

Ippy any views on the Bataleon Goliath? From the website blurb it sounds like the kinda riding I do.

[ippy 66]

if youre after a cheap goliath (equivalent), id advise you to keep an eye on evo.com around cyber monday (29th).

 

I have a feeling you may get some insanely good outlet deals that day, and one of them might be the 2010 project green (which if i understand it correctly is somewhere between the goliath and the jam).

 

Actually im just repeating the words of MrB.

 

Quote:

With the Green, the 2009/10 model was somewhere between Goliath and Jam - a directional twin shape, medium / stiff. The new 2010/11 green is a more freeride shape with a set back TBT, again medium / stiff, somewhere between Omni and Undisputed.

 

Truth is it never quite appealed to me it seems like it tries to be a bit too much of everything. Saying that, if the project green ends up around 200, im grabbing it! I think though, in all honesty, if i wanted a more aggressive twin, id be looking at the jam. And if i was looking for something more with an all round twist id go with the riot or maybe even an 08/09 eviltwin. I dont really get what its for if im honest. I mean its got a single flex pattern throughout, like their freeride sticks (the riot and ET both have stiffened nose and tails for pop and secure landings), but it comes with freestyle tbt (twin shape) instead of the freeride one (which seems to offer all the advantages of directional boards without altering the flex pattern or the sidecut), so maybe thats the point of it... ?

 

Still, it sounds like its sacrificing pop for no real benefit at the end of the day. I guess its really just a kind of mellow cruiser kinda like the indoor fk or something, but with tbt. I guess were it not sitting between the jam and the riot it would be a kick ass deck. But it is, so id feel pulled to one or other of those.

 

Disclaimer: remember my ability on an actual snowboard is almost 1/100th of my BSing ability in explaining what i think theyre supposed to do Im going also by some memory of reading someone once write somewhere (which may be true or not) that the goliath felt slow and sluggish. Indeed, it might even be the goliath that put the whole idea in my head that TBT was slow and sluggish in the first place. Then again, i might have just fabricated that too

 

Basically, if youre after a cruisy resort jack of all trades and master of none, and a board that probably feels like the capita indoor fk only with a lot more stability (actually im starting to sell myself on this deck, the indoor fk is a lot of fun, it just needs a little more stability is all ), then it might be up your street. If on the other hand you want a deck which excels in either all resort freestyle or all mountain freestyle, then id pick up the riot or the jam.

I reckon the goliath is kind of your standard hangover deck

 

 

 

[Jynxx 4]

You got a lot of choices Pete.

We all have a picture in our head as to what boarding is about, what we makes us click... so, that image chooses the board, its technology, graphics, trend, whatever .. and this can seriously limit our choices.

There´s no doubt the boards people will look at will be influenced by Rocker or not. So the question we should be asking is, why do you want that rocker and what do you want that rocker to work for.

Example - I want solid freeride performance and the only reason I want rocker is to float in pow, and by that I don´t have to get a too wide nose board. That means, it doesn´t have to be a rocker board. A camber with a rocker in the nose, or a longer nose (where its upturn is) will do the job.

If I were to look at a freeride board with pow potential, it´s about how much leg burn I can avoid. That we can only tell when it happens.

I would look at:

Never Summer Premier F1-R

Nidecker Megalite

Ride Slackcountry

Rossignol Experience

Jones Flagship

Gnu C2 BTX

Venture Storm (if I had bigger feet)

Salomon Burner

[panhead_pete 27]

Thanks lads, landed in Vienna, next stop Innsbruck then a shop to hopefully pick up a board. Just need to be honest with myself about my ability vs past LOL. I find shopping for a surfboard so much easier, a whole lot less to think about! On a side note why cant PC keyboards be the same all over but at least it was an excuse to get help from the hottie sitting next to me

[panhead_pete 27]

Well after my boards didn't make the journey with me had to go looking at boards to hire whilst the airline finds my board bag. Walked into a shop and saw an Arbor Roundhouse. OMG what a gorgeous board! And environmentally friendly Not sure if its for me? But damn she is almost as pretty as Laura at the hotel Jynnx .

[Jynxx 4]

Glad to hear you made it.

Abor has that organic, woodsy look and class art work for sure.

I have to admit, Arbor has missed my attention.

Looks like you are in good hands ! hehe

 

Forecast for Tuesday there, Snow 20~30cm. If that happens, might drive up on Wed, hopefully more of the runs are opened and lifts working.

[sutebun 0]

Is riding a board that is bigger for your size very difficult??

 

I'm 178cm and ~68kg/150lbs.

 

I found a used Lib Tech Emmagator 166 cm for sale and am considering buying it.

 

Last year I rode a 157 directional freeride board.

 

I like doing downhill riding and just going fast, turning and carving through the area. I don't care for jumps or tricks really at all, so I am thinking that a larger board might be more fun.

 

But 157->166 seems like a big jump. On the other hand I exercise often and am pretty fit so I wonder if I can tame it??

 

Anybody out there with more experience have some wisdom to share?