Ippy's Guide to Buying a new snowboard

[Tubby Beaver 209]

[cucumber-farmer 0]

How fast do you type ippy!?!

 

[cucumber-farmer 0]

If it was my speed, you would be typing these posts 12 hours a day!

[ippy 66]

haha, i type about as fast i think (about 20wpm by the way ), which is kinda why a lot of it can be trimmed down. Theres no filtering process.

[HelperElfMissy 42]

Originally Posted By: ippy

Theres no filtering process.

I can relate.
MUST. Learn. to. proof-read. before. I. hit. POST.

[panhead_pete 27]

Thanks Ippy, appreciate the assistance matey.

[Jynxx 4]

You getting the NeverSummer, Pete ?

[panhead_pete 27]

I reckon so Jynxx. That LibTech looks great but having lived in Colorado and had them before my heart is being dragged that way, especially as my 1st board was a premium V max like Ippy suggests.

 

 

 

TYPE: Freeride

 

Our high performance Premier F1 takes freeride technology to a whole new level! The Carbon V-Twin Laminate Technology and custom F1 Elastomeric Stabilizers underfoot increase edgehold and vibration absorption in any snow condition. With the NS freeride technology, the Premier F1 will power through anything in its path keeping you on edge and in complete control at any speed. The modified NS Custom Flightcore also incorporates a multi-flex profile giving the Premier a powerful tail flex and a more responsive mid flex. For unmatched carving ability, powder floatation and effortless turn initiation, the F1 has arrived.

 

 

Technical Features:

Carbon V-Twin Laminate Technology

F1 Elastomeric Stabilizers

Multi-flex Profiled Flightcore

STS Pretensioned Fiberglass

BI-Lite Fiberglass

RDS 1 Damping System

Sintered P-tex Sidewall

Durasurf Sintered 4501 base

P-tex Tip and Tail Protection

Full Wrap Metal Edge

 

[ippy 66]

yeah, its a sick deck eh. I was seriously thinking about it when i was dithering over my pipe deck (eventually went with the quiver killer because im a cheapskate and it was AWESOME price point). But thought the premier would be a definite all round monster that would murder the pow and also hold its own in the pipe (though ive heard NS are a teensy bit heavy to be throwing around - but sif im gonna throw anything around yet).

 

Top choice remember though, if you do want something less aggressive and a bit more playful, the SL-R covers that base.

[ippy 66]

THREADCRAP IN FIVE MINUTES. I've written up a massive post about sidecuts (it seems the more i talk about this crap, the longer the posts get. Honestly i shudder to think how long the various types of deck post would be if i started it today. Probably a page per deck type.)

 

Anyway jynxx, you wanted it, so heres the bit all about mtx et al (and of cours ethe basics of the sidecut). If i went wildly off base, as ever do tell. i hope i got it right, but honestly when you've not ridden some of these decks and when no one seems to talk about sidecuts outside of the ALWAYS USELESS product info (hell, burton havent even got a single piece of info about their frost bite tech), you have to use your powers of reason to kind of establish what the tech is supposed to be sort of doing... maybe. Anyway, i'll format it up for this site and then post it up in about 5-10

 

PS. You'll also see the structure ive been working on. Ive been rewriting parts, but also and more importantly adding an introduction and conclusion to each section so you can read the intro, then skip to the end and ignore my long rambles

[ippy 66]

STEP 5: THE SIDECUT

 

Introduction Summary:

Quote:

We've all done it. We've all been bombing the mountain only for one of our contacts to slide out causing a bit of a tumble. And if we live on the East coast, or we have a reverse camber deck, it's probably more just a fact of everyday life.

 

Clearly reverse camber tech has stability issues. It has a shorter edge length and is also burdened with not having those two contacts. Instead you will be relying on the basic edge for the most part without a specific contact directing and driving that energy creating a solid grip. Yet because reverse camber is FANTASTIC for forgiveness and float, it's not something board manufacturers want to give up so easily. So how to square the circle of forgiveness and stability.

 

The majority of this chapter then, is an attempt to explain how sidecut technology is trying to find that balance, and why, right now, sidecuts are receiving just as much attention as camber profiles at the moment in the undustry.

 

In this section I will therefore try and explain what a simple radial sidecut is and how it works. The aim is to give you a clear grounding before complicating the matter by throwing in things like multiple radii, serrating the edge, reversing the sidecut arc, or throwing in kinks to create grip. Hopefully through understanding your edge, you can understand more of the choices available to you out there right now.

 

Sidecut Basics. (Math 101)

 

With a sidecut you're dealing with two central features: the radius and the depth.

 

Hold onto your hats old people (who stopped going to school years ago), theres maths to be done: (remember this though, its easy Two Pi R = circumference of a circle).

 

Imagine if you will, that the curve in the above picture loops around to complete a gigantic circle. Your sidecut is really a product of the radius of this circle. That's pretty much it. Where the board stops following that arc, is where you find the widest part of the baord. This will usually end up as the boards contact point. The difference between the widest part of the board and the narrowest part (in the center of the sidecut) is what we call the sidecut depth. Good, now you know pretty much everything.

 

So obviously if you have two boards the exact same length from the middle to the contact, but a different sidecut radius, they will naturally end up with a different depth. Now what does that mean for your riding? When is it better to have a deeper sidecut, and when would you want a shallow one?

 

Sidecut Depth:

 

There is a nice hard and fast rule on this you'll be glad to know:

 

If you want stability on long grand arcs, you want a very shallow side-cut. If you want faster sharper turns, you go for a deeper sidecut. There we go. Nice long stable turns is shallow, fast quick sharp turns you go deep. So if you're hitting the pipe or launching from a jump, or spinning, or just about doing anything that requires sudden fast changes of direction, you'll be looking at something with a nice deep arc so that you can make that quick burst to get you through it. If on the other hand you're looking for the turn to sweep majestically through its entire radius and not end up slowed down by the board digging in, you'll be looking for a shallow radius.

 

Now you know everything about your sidecut, right? The smaller the radius, the deeper the sidecut (and the deeper the sidecut, the smaller the radius). And small radius/deep sidecuts are betrter for sudden explosive movements, and large radius/shallow sidecuts are better for long stable movements.

 

If only it were that simple!

 

What we have talked about is ONLY one type of sidecut. It is known as a Radial sidecut. This is a snowboard with a perfect uninterrupted arc between the two contact points. Still, keep in mind the way depth works because it will be crucial in understanding the next part.

 

The Progressive Sidecut

 

 

Simply put, a progressive sidecut is a sidecut with more than one radius. It can be two, three, four, or 2 million if you really want, but the general idea behind it is to mirror the stages you go through in a turn for the best efficiency.

The idea is that when you turn you want a nice smooth initiation; you want a nice stable arc in the midst of the turn; and finally you want a nice aggressive movement at the end to exit your turn so you don't get caught.

 

It's called a progressive side-cut because the sidecut progresses along the different functions you require in your turn. In order to get that nice smooth initiation you'll start off with a huge radius (shallow cut) so it doesn't feel jolty or catchy, and finish with a deep sharp radius. Obviously you could just run with these two radii, but it might feel a bit clunky, so a third or even fourth radius is added in to balance the two and give the board a much more stable and much less catchy feel.

 

Now this all considers a perfect beautiful slope of powder where you can charge endlessly on a sea of clouds. Nice turn initiation, a gentle arc in the center and quick burst at the end for fast movement between your edges. A pretty good reason, if you ask me, why you'd want a progressive cut.

 

But there's EVEN MORE.

 

In conjunction with a directional flex you end up packing a lot more explosive power into the tail. Because the tail is usually stiffer, adding a deeper cut at the tail gives you the opportunity to load it quickly, providing you with some serious pop.

 

finally, this same explosive power means you have a fantastic emergency brake. Because you can load that tail with so much energy, and because you can create rapid chages in direcion it means you can pull you up way faster (and way safer) than if you had a straight shallow radial cut (which may not distribute the weight as effectively and so result in a wash).

 

A directional board with a progressive sidecut has obviously a lot of benefits for the type of ride it wants to do, but it does come with a HUGE potentaial drawback

 

if you want to hit things up in switch, obviously it's going to feel utterly miserable and catchy because everything is ass backwards. If you want to be doing spins or anything involving switch, a progressive sidecut is going to feel awkward and uncomfortable. I mean, it can be compensated for by rider ability, and spending some time adjusting to the change in feel, (as well as the float on a rocker causing that initiation to not catch so hard), but it's never going to be as comfortable as a radial cut.

 

]Ever Increasing Contacts

 

Progressive radial sidecuts????

 

 

Your edge and your contact points go hand in hand with your sidecut. But as you can see from the picture above there are some issues. Loading so heavily on certain parts of the board (the contact) can cause some serious instability should you slide out or lose one of your contacts. This can of course happen on ice, but it also happens a great deal on rocker boards where the contacts simply don't exist. This is naturally a big issue for manufacturers who are all on a quest to find the one deck cashcow that genuinely does it all. Thus a great deal of attention has been turned to both the camber profile (see the section on camber), but also on the sidecut and the edge.

 

We saw what can happen with three different radii progressing in roughly the same direction, but what would happen if instead of a curve to offset the two distinct radii, you got rid of the gentle transition altogether? Well then you'd get kinks when you threw your weight on it, redistributing some of that pressure to other parts of the board, and this is the idea behind the solomon equalizer:

 

 

It's also the idea behind Never Summers Vario power grip.

 

 

What happens is that when you are in the process of a turn, instead of just having the two contact points, those five different arcs result in five different contact points. These do not necessarily load with the same kind of pressure as you'd get with your standard two obviously, but they keep the board stable and in control without feeling like its biting too aggressively into the snow. What is creating this effect is the sidecut profile and the radical (relatively speaking) change between the various radii. What you have here is just really a play on a progressive sidecut only with a more symmetrical shape

 

Vario and equalizer are both attempts to distribute the weight along the entire edge to give you more control at several places rather than the current 2 of a standard snowboard. They create this effect through INDENTATION. This results in a redistribution of the weight to several parts of the board without cutting into the snow and creating drag or feeling catchy. But it is not the only solution to the issue.

 

]Bringing a butter knife to a steak fight

 

Another more aggressive change derives from reversing some of the sidecut to create bumps in the edge. Capita for example have a single contact point in the middle of their new black snowboard of death. The aim is obviously to have one more point where the snowboard is gripping the terrain when the board is on edge.

 

Arbor also have bulges in their design. Instead of at the center though, they placed them at the inserts. The reason is pretty much the same: to provide more contact points and keep the deck from sliding out under you when you're just trying to ride.

 

 

Apparently the burton version (frostbite) is much the same as this, though I can't find a picture for you and amazingly burton.com don't have it under frostbite or frost bite in a search of their site. Anyway, these are all bit players. The daddy of the steak knife has to be Mervin and Magne-traction.

 

 

Now we've covered the fundamentals here, so really we shouldn't have to say much, but magne-traction is really the idea that if you are faced with a wall of ice and 2 lousy contact points keeping you moving through that turn, chances are your weight is going to bork at some point causing the contact to slide out and you to end up washing. In order to combat this effect Mervin (gnu/libtech), in 2006 came up with magne-traction. You're probably looking at the picture above and wondering what it is. Well, its bumps in your edge. The idea is that not only will you have seven contact points on each edge and thus amazing stability regardless of the conditions, but that the magne-traction will also be slicing through the ice in much the same way as a serrated knife slices through a steak.

 

This slicing effect is really important to the design because adding bumps like this will cause the snowboard to feel like it's dragging. the serration effect MTX (magnetraction) provides, causes the board to charge right through this in much the same way a steak knife cuts through a steak.

 

It is however a tech that divides opinion. Many people love it, and just as many hate it. They hate it because it feels a little too grippy and a little too much like the board is locking in too hard, (whilst also skidding out at completion of the arc as the 'grip' suddenly vanishes). In response lib have also released a softer and less aggressive form of MTX on their C2 range.

 

A variant of MTX and the last edge tech out there I want to mention is Ultimate Grip tech from Nidecker. Really, it's a similar philosophy to the idea of mtx - serrate the edge and slice through the hard pack, but instead of throwing bumps throughout the entire length of the board, ultimate grip serrates the sidecut only between the inserts.

 

 

And this is what it looks like on your edge.

 

The purpose of this is to keep your edges nice and clean at the tip and tail, whilst offering you some serious stability and grip in the middle. Unlike with MTX it means you won't feel so catchy and grippy at the start of the turn whilst also giving you that feeling of complete and total control, however unlike mtx its apparently an absolute bitch to retune and people have suggested it causes drag by biting in a little hard in the middle.

Again, maybe a tech you need to check out for yourself before dropping cash on. But thought I should mention it.

 

Final thoughts on the Sidecut: TL;DR

Quote:

- Your board's sidecut really just refers to the arc in the snowboard between the widest and narrowest part of the board (its hourglass shape and thus what is meant by the sidecut depth). if this arc is extended infinitely, it will complete a circle and the distance from the circles central point to its furthest point, is its radius. The radius and depth therefore are intertwined.

 

- There are two primary types of sidecut. The first one is a radial sidecut, and this means a sidecut that is one long arc from tip to tail.

 

- A deep radial sidecut (small radius), will create faster turns and more explosive changes of direction. These are great for freestyle boards obviously which require drastic switches in direction for spins, landings and all round getting into positions.

- A shallow radial sidecut (large radius), on the other hand will create stability over a longer turn arc. These are obviously nice for majestic sweeps and will slay almost any terrain whether its bobbly or chopped up.

 

- The second type of sidecut is a Progressive cut. A progressive cut is one which has maybe two or three different radii all working together along one edge of your board.

- The aim of the progressive sidecut is to make turn initiation easy and fluid, (long radius), follow the line of the turn effectively (medium radius), and then end the turn quickly to not get caught by the torsional twist (short radius). It goes shallow---->deep to mirror the actions of your turn.

 

- But progressive sidecuts come in many shapes and sizes and aren't restricted to freeride. For example nitro does a sidecut called dual degressive, which starts and ends with a long arc, but has a short arc in the centre for fast movement. The aim is to make jumps and spins less catchy. Artec has a similar philosophy with the omega sidecut, which is almost flat around the contacts then kinks into the arc providing a bit more scope for straight riding off a squirly landing. the big flat part allows for the board to carry on straight instead of following the line of the arc on a heel or toe edge land. This means it's central aim is almost to counter quick and hooky turn initiation for a more forgiving landing (and all round ride). The possible mirror of this is the atomic twin prog sidecut, which has deep arcs at the tip and tail, but a long elongated middle for stability.

 

- And then there are the newer techs which utilise multiple radii and lines (instead of curves) to create contacts through kinks when the board is on edge. The two dominant lines of this tech are salomon's equalizer tech and Never summer's Vario.

 

- Against this, are the reverse sidecuts. Or rather bumps. Whereas the kinks in NS and Salomon come from the board moving in towards the center, these techs specifically reverse the cut at various key positions in order to create very defined grip points. The daddy of this is arguably mervin's magne-traction (MTX). But nidecker/Yes, and also arbor, burton and capita have variants of this solution.

[Jynxx 4]

Ippy done it again

 

Actually, I reckon this is really well written. The graphics is cool.

Thanks mate, this is quality stuff.

[ippy 66]

thanks dude. I read it last night and felt it was a little scattered So spent the last couple of hours trying to give it a bit more of a clear direction. Hopefully it reads a little nicer now

[hakub-en 0]

THAT! .... is a lot of writing, or typing!

 

Interesting too.

[ippy 66]

it certainly was (a lot of typing). I hope it was interesting though.

 

Ive just this minute finished what i expect to be the second pass of the entire guide (you can find it at sierra in the ask other riders section, i wont hotlink it though).

 

Currently missing over here are

 

- all my edits to the individual sections (intro and conclusion in particular).

- the glossary and links section.

- the introduction. (just finished it).

 

I decided to really push the 90/10 thing, so whereas the conclusion is all about making sure you are on the right board for what you want to do, this section is very much on throwing out the variables and emphasising why it just doesnt matter all that much if youre not on the exact board you want. I felt bracketing the tech talk with those two opinion pieces rounded it off and made it nice and circular

 

Anyway, ill post up the introduction in 2 minutes (formatting etc), and i'll post the glossary/links page up later once i get the okay on the links.

[ippy 66]

HOW TO USE THIS GUIDE

 

 

A king wanted to teach his advisors a lesson, so he had them blindfolded and brought before them an elephant. He placed them at different parts of the beast and asked them to tell him what it was. Feeling his tusk, one remarked "its a spear!" Feeling the ear, another remarked "Its a fan"... And so they quarreled endlessly, until the king in his kingly wisdom asked them to take their blindfolds off and declared! "You were all right, but you were all completely wrong because you didnt understand how it all works together". The king was a bit of a jerk though so everyone laughed at his stupid and obvious gag in case it angered him and he had their tongues cut out. The moral is this though: if someone with an army makes you look like an idiot, whoop and clap for joy at how witty they are. Anyway...

 

Introduction:

Quote:

"Now look at their answers. Some will say that this is a fascinating and touching allegory of the presence of God. Others will say that it is showing people how stupid mankind can be. Some say it is anti-scholastic. Others that it is just a tale copied by Rumi from Sanai – and so on."

Bit pompous for a guide about snowboards eh? I'm not beyond it. I actually enjoy a bit of pretension. But here's what I want to convey about this guide:

 

If you read it all the way through you will understand how the whole works together. No part of this guide is stand-alone. The reason is very simple: flex for example can be taken as some kind of abstract statement objectively related to the board, and you can go on understanding it like this, resulting in a decent deck for your trouble, but it only tells part of the story. Throughout this guide I will continually drop this line. Not because it's an "out" so I can cover every possible eventuality, but because any one part of this guide impacts on every other part.

 

Understanding what a directional board is, or whether it has a progressive or radial sidecut, whether it's a camber or hybrid camber deck, or whether its base is extruded or sintered, or if its a stiff deck or a noodle, or whether it has a taper or not, or how you've personally sized it will all tell you a great deal about where this board is going to give you an easy and difficult time of things.

 

But then again, this 'only tells part of the story'. The quote at the start is thus a warning; even once you understand the metaphor of the blind men/advisors and the elephant, it's still just one perspective!

 

A Grand Unified theory of Everything: 90/10

 

What does 90/10 mean exactly? It means that when you are a beginner, you're going to suck just as much on a $1500 deck as you are on a 10 year old rental deck. It means that when you're very very good, you can just as easily take a tapered powder board in the park and hit some features as well as someone on a specific park board. But don't get hung up on the language. It's not a scientific formula, the numbers indicate only that one side of the equation is maybe a little more important than the other side. It's just a number pulled out of the air after all. Getting the right gear for the job is definitely something you want to be aiming for (and it is of course the very reason you're reading this), but although it helps, understand it doesn't guarantee anything. It just maybe gives you an easier time with the stuff you want to be doing, is all.

 

For example, riding a rail on a horrorscope is a doddle, but riding it on a fish isn't easy and requires a lot of skill, technique and power just to get on the damn thing... nevertheless it can be done. Riding a noodle on an icy steep will likely have most people washing, but if you're good, you'll have enough skill to pull it off. Sure, you won't be beating your mates down the hill on their freeride sticks, nor will you be winning any rail jams on your fish, but you'll be still pushing the board well beyond what people assume it is capable of (and looking good doing it). The right gear, for the right job helps of course, but it doesn't mean that it's a guaranteed solution to all your problems.

 

I've mentioned several times that it was through learning on a freeride board that I tightened up my riding. This is only partially true. It was actually learning on an FK board that improved my carving... (And if this is the second time reading this you'll be screaming at me right about now to make some bloody sense and not contradict literally EVERYTHING I've said about reverse camber). But let me explain:

 

My reverse camber washes. It washes a bit more than I'd like. My freeride doesn't. When I throw out a carve on my artec, it locks in beautifully and rides it all the way to the end with absolutely no problem. I honestly never worry about it sliding out even if the terrain is a mess and I'm being bounced all over the mountain (not that I would be, it just blasts through chop). On the other hand my sierrascope will wash when it's going reasonably quick and hits terrain it doesn't particularly like (it hates chop).

 

"So how could your sierrascope teach you about carving then?" i hear you sort of ask...

 

With my freeride, I can do almost ANYTHING and still get a carve from it; no matter what I do, that board is going to lock in on its edge and burn through it. My sierrascope on the other hand, is going to struggle. And it's precisely because it struggles that I stay much more focussed on my technique while I'm riding with a bit of speed. Since I know it will wash if I'm sloppy, I had to tighten my technique and learn new ways to overcome things which I maybe took for granted on my Artec.

 

Which brings me naturally to the term 'forgiving'...

 

A Note on the Perils of Language

 

 

You will see this word crop up a lot, and you'll see it specifically within the context of raised contacts and not getting dropped on your face from edge catching. Of course this is important, no one likes to scorpion when they land a bit wrong, or when they get tired and lose concentration. When you drop a 360 and you don't quite hit it, there's no better feeling than knowing you just cheated a face full of mountain and can happily ride away.

 

But this is only one type of forgiveness. Its specifically the one new people want when they need to try new stuff that involves edge transfer. But, just like everything else, it's only a part of the picture.

 

Consider what I wrote above about carving. It may sound like I'm laboring the point here, but in fact the more forgiving ride when you are carving is obviously going to be the freeride board. Yet if you took a random poll and asked people to tell you which deck was more 'forgiving' - a soft reverse camber deck, or a freeride, I will take out a huge mortgage to put money on it that people would say the soft buttery reverse camber stick.

 

Pull back and reveal the "for what" clause (in this case carving and riding chop) and the people you just polled all look like idiots. Whenever you see any universal claim made by anyone understand that it comes with an implied context. 'Forgiving' is certainly useful, but yeah, it only tells part of the story.

 

Ultimately, every snowboard is forgiving at something. The freeride effortlessly locking into its carves is incredibly forgiving in this area. I don't have to concentrate or work on retaining that edge (though I do when I start to change egdes). It will lock in, I can bounce up and down on the damn thing and it will still lock straight back in. I can pretend to fly like superman on a 70 degree edge and so long as I'm not transitioning to the other edge, I'm going nowhere. It is effortless to get a carve out of it and because of that it is in effect, incredibly 'forgiving'. Try that on a reverse camber deck, and chances are you'll be picking mountain out of your teeth.

 

Consider then the counterpoint to forgiveness: Stability. Again this guide spends a lot of time suggesting that freeride decks are stable and rocker boards aren't. Understand it's talking about a specific thing even if it does not outright say it. You are going to be much less stable on a rail with razor sharp edges and no real flex than you are with a soft flexing deck with detuned edges. Hit a nick on the rail on a freeride and, technique or not, you're probably in for a painful catch. Again... "stable for what?"

 

Beware then, of the language and claims made in almost every guide(or person advising you. They are less concrete and universal than they often imply.

 

I say this not to have you utterly confused, or to make you feel like you're stuck in some kind of relativism loop, but because words like 'forgiving' are seductive, (just like "endless fields of powder" are seductive), and such a seduction may trick you into buying a board that doesn't suit the style of riding you want to do. Everyone wants a forgiving deck, but not everyone wants it be forgiving in the same way. The trouble is, forgiveness carries the implied idea that it is always forgiving compared to the other deck (regardless of what you want to do). Understand that people who build, talk about, review, and describe snowboards are unintentionally lazy and don't necessarily think about how the language can be accidentally misconstrued.

 

Like 'flex', 'forgiving' is an incredibly useful short-hand term to describe how a board will maybe feel when you ride it, but it is very context dependant. Confirm the context and you will have no problem in establishing if it is the board you really want for the type of ride you want. Indeed this is a great lesson to take with you about all of the language of snowboard marketing. Much of it is very precise and incredibly effective at describing how the board should feel so long as you understand the context. The aim of this guide then, is to give you that context and make sense of the language so you can get the very most out of those technical descriptions.

 

Conclusion:

Quote:

- This guide can be read in many ways. You can dip in and out however you see fit. Indeed, there are many summaries (and summaries of summaries) allowing you to bypass a great deal of the detail. However, it is obviously best read through at least one time so you can understand how the whole picture works.

- The main intention then is to have you understand your snowboard to help you understand for yourself precisely what you want.

- Consider two further things though: Firstly, all boards have something they can do really well, and stuff they can't do so well. There is no such thing as a real genuine do it all board out there, nevertheless, prioritize what you want to do, and you'll find there is a board out there that will help you do it well.

- Second: Boards have their dark side. Things which feel effortless don't necessarily make YOU a better rider. Your limitations will become apparent if you sit on a deck that doesn't like that type of riding as much. Nothing improves your technique faster than pain, so boards that aren't forgiving will actually help your riding so long as you can persevere.

- So do beware playing solely to the boards strengths. It is very easy to take a rocker on small jumps and try and pull off some 180s because if you screw up the landing it's no big thing, the rocker will probably carry you through. But because it lets you get away with sloppy form, it can hinder you with learning the basics of your spin and how to land on point which can hamper your progression and leave you hitting a wall.

- Finally, beware of words like forgiving and stability. They apply to specific things. Sometimes the writer/reviewer will specifically state what they mean, other times they won't. Because no snowboard does everything well, always ask yourself this question "forgiving/stable for what?"

 

Ippy's Genuine Final Thoughts

 

I have broken this guide into 10 parts. The introduction and final thoughts are personal interpretations to try and make the information meaningful. This section for example focuses on the 'ninety' part of the equation (the diversity of your gear), whilst the final thoughts focuses a little more towards the 'ten' side of things (the right tool for the job). The rest of the sections are attempts to describe what boards are available and how everything works together to give you the exact ride you want. I hope you find this guide useful and more importantly, I hope you realise above all else these 2 things:

 

First this guide should be used really as a SUPPLEMENT to trying stuff out for yourself. If you are lucky enough to have access to different boards, riding them for even 5 minutes is going to give you a far better idea of how they feel than the 4 million hours it takes reading through this guide.

 

Secondly, (and this may seem a little perverse for a guide that calls itself a buyers guide), but when all is said and done you don't have to buy new gear. Even if a deck gives you a hard time of it, that hard time is still going to be improving your technique. At the end of the day, it's not about the gear, but the time and snow-miles you put into riding. Get on the hill and have a blast and stop thinking too much about your gear. Remember, getting the right gear only accounts for the 'ten' side of the equation. Nothing is more important than strapping in and trying stuff out for yourself.

 

Guide Contents:

 

1. How to Use the Guide

2. Step 1: Types of Board

3. Step 2: Sizing your Deck

4. Step 3: The Miracle of Flex

5. Step 4: Board shapes

6. Step 5: The Sidecut

7. Step 6: The Base.

8. Step 7: Camber profiles

9. Final Thoughts

10.Glossary and links.

[ippy 66]

Tubby, you bought your jam yet dude?

 

If not i have something quick to tell you - Evo have a few bataleon decks in their outlet and they have a coupon (only valid for a few more hours i think), that gives you an extra 30% off.

 

http://www.evo.com/outlet-shop/snowboard...s/bataleon.aspx

 

Now i asked MrB the bataleon info dude, about the project green and he said:

 

Quote:

With the Green, the 2009/10 model was somewhere between Goliath and Jam - a directional twin shape, medium / stiff. The new 2010/11 green is a more freeride shape with a set back TBT, again medium / stiff, somewhere between Omni and Undisputed.

 

Threw one in shopping cart, and plus discount comes to $223. Just waiting on evo getting back to me with a shipping quote, but could be a nice alternative. Only trouble is, the coupon finishes today some time

 

Oh and they have a 161 jam (but only a 157 wide).

[Tubby Beaver 209]

nah mate, haven't done it yet. I was actually gonna wait until I go home at Xmas and buy it there, a shop in glasgow stocks em, and then I was gonna bring it back

 

a quick skek at the website says it 92 dollars for shipping to Japan, so that'd be around 9000 yen on top.....that isn't bad. hmmmm to buy or not to buy?? They have 1 in 161 as well, although it s coming in at $313 for me

[ippy 66]

did you use the code? bighammer

[SantaCruz 0]

Damn, you're making me want to get one now as well. I'm 6'4 220 so I need a longer board which narrows it down to Undisputed or Omni, both at 167cm. How would those boards stack up? Evo says they're both Freeride, with the Undisputed being more stiff.

 

So tempted!!!

[Jynxx 4]

You know guys, after our first day out, Missus summed up the day by saying `I need a longer board ´. She also added `Maybe we get a powder board´

We had solid ice, crud, bumps, and 20cm fresh snow which wasn´t so fluffy needing lots of back leg for speed and lift. What she meant was that;

1) she wanted something longer to blast through with grip on the edge

2) Something with more area and setback to go through pow.

We notice our progression and wanting that little something to take us into that `Zone´ with ease and confidence. We like our boards and some added arsenal.

 

I reckon understanding the `teckno jargon´gives us some idea to what boards might give us what we need. If we don´t know that from starters, meaning having no referance point, Ippy´s guide might just be woopie .. so this ain´t no noobs guide to snowboarding. It just might be what WE need.

Having said that, I do have some thoughts to share. We have been using our boards for 3 seasons now and because I want to save $ spent on tuning, I do that myself. Depending on the board, I do that quite a bit. I do pass a very fine metal file at the end of the day. So here IS the point I like to discuss:

1) Filing edges does add up to shave off a bit of metal. Stuff like Magna traction and alike might have not much effect after all that filing is done. So, how long will it last?

2) The belt grider ! Do professional tuners really care? It´s not their board ... and how professional are they? That thing does give the board a great cosmetic job but that´s because it shaves a lot off!

3) So what is the optimum way to tune up?

 

Which sorts of points to a direction that is ;

It all might be a matter of length and the side curve, and where the edge and snow contact point will be. - or, how effective and long is the edge on the board. You might not want that if it´s a dedicated powder board.

How are the shape of the tip and tail affect the hydro, flow, whatever.. hitting snow.

[Tubby Beaver 209]

Originally Posted By: ippy

did you use the code? bighammer

ah....no I didn't

[ippy 66]

Originally Posted By: SantaCruz

Damn, you're making me want to get one now as well. I'm 6'4 220 so I need a longer board which narrows it down to Undisputed or Omni, both at 167cm. How would those boards stack up? Evo says they're both Freeride, with the Undisputed being more stiff.

So tempted!!!

Based on this:

Quote:

Specs
Flex: 5.5
Tip Width:298mm (159), 304mm (163)
Waist Width:252mm (159), 256mm (163)
Tail Width:296mm (159), 302mm (163)
Ability Level:Advanced - Expert
Core Material:Wood (Poplar)
Effective Edge:1210mm (159), 1240mm (163)
Rider Weight:Unspecified
Rocker Type:Camber
Sidecut Radius:8.3m (159), 8.5m (163)
Stance:490-610mm (159), 500-620mm (163)
Width:Regular

The omni looks like an upgrade to the goliath. A little faster base, with a 25mm setback. Its very much your jack of all trades deck and if youre after a bit of everything this might be suitable. I wouldnt really call the omni freeride at all. Hell, based on those specs, it hardly qualifies as a directional twin. Still it does have their freeride version of TBT so i should be careful If i get it, and i maybe dont, the freeride TBT is for faster edge to edge and comes with a setback. So you kinda get some of the benefits of a freeride without getting smooshed by odd sidecuts when you flip to switch. So yeah, kinda sorta directional twin (but more twin masquerading as directional if you discount the setback - its a radial sidecut and carries same flex pattern through the board as well as being a twin shape - although it has a 2mm taper which i guess must be for getting onto your edge a teensy biut easier in turns).

If however all you want to do is charge big lines, then i guess the undisputed might be more up your street. It seems to be very much their float machine. Not a designated powder stick though since it carries no significant taper. But again the freeride tbt sits you firther down the board creating float and sinking you into the tail. I guess whereas on the omni this would be a nice addition that you could play with to dial in for yourself if you want it or not, with the undisputed youre probably supposed to sit your bindings back.
Again though, interesting that in their most directionally board, i cant see anything that would scream "directional!!!". Maybe tbt throws out that rule book as well. The flex is consistent throughout, no progressive sidecut, just has a setback and the tbt coming up shorter at the nose than the tail (which no doubt creates a different feel to the flex pattern rather than actually HAVING a designated different flex pattern). So you get the benefits of a directional sidecut (easy turn initiation, and quick catch free transition at the end of turn) without making switch feel too clunky like you would do with a progressive cut. Honestly, TBT is strange stuff

Anyway, if youre wanting something more aggressive go undisputed, you can obviously use it as a powder deck or just as a standard freeride charger. its also got a faster base by the looks of it.

If you want something more playful and that you can throw around a bit more; an all resort killer with a bit more versatility to head into sidecountry what with the setback and freeride tbt, then go with the omni.

[SantaCruz 0]

Nice, thanks for the quick turn around on the info ippy. Looking at some other reviews they described the Omni as a more mellow version of the Undisputed, which sounds similar to your take on it.

 

I'm not a big line charger and only dabble in slack country so Omni seems like a better pick. I'm hesitant though, I picked up a Rider's Choice BTX which I've only had 1 season on so I'd feel guilty getting a new board so soon!

 

Evo is actually local to Seattle, so I may be able to order it and return if I change my mind

[SantaCruz 0]

Ugggh, actually I don't think this is going to work out. I don't think either board is wide enough for my clod hopper size 14 feet